gobills1212 Posted March 21, 2018 Posted March 21, 2018 59 minutes ago, apuszczalowski said: Even the group ok with trading for Foles could be right. He has shown signs of being able to play in big games and a few times has been looked at as a potential full time starter in this league. Would Foles and a bunch 1st-3rd round picks make the Bills a better team? McCaron also give the potential to become a starter in this league also.Its highly unlikely they become an elite QB like Brady or manning or Brees, but could they be good enough to be guys that could keep the franchise competitive? Sure the odds are greater that the top QB taken in the draft will have success, but its not a guarantee because theres no guarantee that even the best guys in this draft are franchise guys and may just end up being good starters but not special. What most people that are against moving up have with the idea is that they don't feel these guys are worth what it will take this year to make the jump. The other issue is that there are those who believe that all that matters is having an elite QB and everything else won't matter, where others know that its rare to actually obtain an elite franchise guy and that building a solid team with a good QB can be just as successful. Its highly doubtful the league sees another Brady/Patriots for a long time. What other team can compare to that? P. Manning, as great as he was in the league couldn't win without a good team around him, Brees could put up crazy offensive numbers and still not win because they didn't have a decent defence. Russell Wilson, Big Ben, Phillip Rivers? Great QBs who cant carry the franchise themselves on their own. As good as Wentz was, the Eagles were still able to put up good offensive numbers and beat the Vikings and Pats to win the SB with their backup and a great defence. Blakes Bortles was the starting QB on a team that came close to upsetting the Pats to get into the SB. The Vikings made a run to the NFC championships with a walking sheet of glass in Bradford, and a career backup in Keenum Just different views man. The possibility of a qb that can single handedly keep a team competitive is a cool thing. It's been a long time, with a lot of patch work, and a lot of squandered rosters due primarily to said patchwork. This draft has potential. There could be multiple future franchise guys. Who knows? But that in and of itself is exciting and unique. Most drafts have 1, maybe 2. With respect, this narrative of there not being 1 sure fire can't miss is kinda silly. They are few and far between and even then nothing is guaranteed. So no, there isn't 1 sure fire guy. But, there seems to be a few high qlty guys that could be 2004-esq. That's why it's exciting! That's why it would be frustrating to put the position off again. You can always try and get lucky in late rounds. You can't however, always get a crack at something franchise changing. Good or bad, it's fun and exciting and even more so if we are a part of it. Even more so with a bummer class projected next year. Some people get so bent out of shape and worked up like they have some sort of control. Whatever happens happens and there will be fans and criticisms. To me, it's the line from dumb and dumber.. " so youre saying there's a chance!!!"
Thurman#1 Posted March 21, 2018 Posted March 21, 2018 37 minutes ago, TigerJ said: As I stated in my post, there is reason to believe that the Giants really are not looking to trade, and are more inclined than not to stay at #2. If true, their reluctance to trade would drive the price up even further than it would be if they were actually looking for a chance to trade. Yeah, their options are wide open.
billspro Posted March 21, 2018 Posted March 21, 2018 I think it will be untouchable because they Giants want a QB. It will be at least 3 1st and 2 2nd's if they are will to make a trade imo.
Thurman#1 Posted March 21, 2018 Posted March 21, 2018 1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said: Maybe but the Bills can offer 1 more first in any situation. It is basically impossible for any team to match the Bills. That’s the point. We have no idea where they draw the line though. If every team included all of their assets the Bills would get the pick. Said so much more clearly GB, if the Bills offered 12, 22, 53, 65 and next year’s 2 what would be Denver’s most competitive offer? Assuming I'm correct above in finding that after the draft begins teams can trade three years into the future, not two, Denver could theoretically go: 2018: 5, 40, 71 2019: 1st 2020: 1st 2021: 1st And no, they're not likely to do this, but assume that Elway quietly believes that Rosen is the next Peyton, or that Mayfield is the next Brees or that Allen is the next Rodgers. In that case, you can bet he'll be extremely competitive in trying to bid up nearly any offer Buffalo makes. Again, likely not to be as easy as many on here are hoping, even if the Giants are committed to trading, which doesn't seem certain.
Kirby Jackson Posted March 21, 2018 Posted March 21, 2018 5 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said: Assuming I'm correct above in finding that after the draft begins teams can trade three years into the future, not two, Denver could theoretically go: 2018: 5, 40, 71 2019: 1st 2020: 1st 2021: 1st And no, they're not likely to do this, but assume that Elway quietly believes that Rosen is the next Peyton, or that Mayfield is the next Brees or that Allen is the next Rodgers. In that case, you can bet he'll be extremely competitive in trying to bid up nearly any offer Buffalo makes. Again, likely not to be as easy as many on here are hoping, even if the Giants are committed to trading, which doesn't seem certain. I believe that they can’t trade 2021 still. I dont think anyone thinks that it will be easy. If the Bills make the deal that ICB suggested they are paying a massive premium. I’m still of the thinking that they should do it but the 2019 1st shouldn’t be on the table. Just keep adding from this year. They can certainly get it done (if the Giants are willing to move).
habes1280 Posted March 21, 2018 Posted March 21, 2018 5 hours ago, vincec said: Probably too much So based on this chart, the #12 and #22 alone would be more than enough to get the #1 overall from the Browns. That sounds totally unrealistic to me. More unrealistic that trading 3 firsts, 2 seconds, and a third to move up ten spots? Both seem prohibitive, just to different teams. I have to think that the answer is somewhere in the middle.
Thurman#1 Posted March 21, 2018 Posted March 21, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said: I believe that they can’t trade 2021 still. I dont think anyone thinks that it will be easy. If the Bills make the deal that ICB suggested they are paying a massive premium. I’m still of the thinking that they should do it but the 2019 1st shouldn’t be on the table. Just keep adding from this year. They can certainly get it done (if the Giants are willing to move). You may be right that they can't trade 2021. But did you see my post above about that? To repeat: 2 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: Diaper emergency faced and handled. About how far ahead draft picks can be traded, seems that before the draft you can only trade two years in advance but once the draft has started, you can go three years. So once the draft has started, a team with only one first rounder per year could trade the 2018, 2019, 2020 and 2021 first rounders. "According the the league office, trades conducted before the draft begins can include draft picks in 2015, 2016, and 2017. Once the draft starts (i.e., the moment the Commissioner declares the draft to be open and places the team with the first pick on the clock), trades can include picks from 2015, 2016, 2017, and 2018." (NOTE: this article was written before the 2015 draft) http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/03/04/eagles-can-trade-picks-into-2018-draft-once-the-2015-draft-opens/ Couldn't find more. If anyone can show me more, I'd be very willing to learn. Again, I'm not 100% convinced you can trade three years ahead, but it looks true, most likely. Unless there's been a change in the rules since 2015. And yeah, they'd be paying a large premium if they just give all our picks in the first three rounds this year. But massive is a real overstatement. Giving all six picks for the #2 would be giving 3071 points for 2600. That's an 18% premium, hardly massive. In comparison, the Jets gave up about 20.5% in their trade. In the case of the bidding war that seems very possible at this point, there's a good chance it won't be enough. No way to be sure of that, of course. But again, if Elway thinks Rosen is the next Peyton, he'd be smart to give up the first three picks this year and start bidding up towards giving up the 1sts from 2019, 2020 and 2021 besides. "They can certainly get it done (if the Giants are willing to move)," you say? No, that's very far from a certainty. Edited March 21, 2018 by Thurman#1 1
GunnerBill Posted March 21, 2018 Posted March 21, 2018 5 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: Diaper emergency faced and handled. About how far ahead draft picks can be traded, seems that before the draft you can only trade two years in advance but once the draft has started, you can go three years. So once the draft has started, a team with only one first rounder per year could trade the 2018, 2019, 2020 and 2021 first rounders. "According the the league office, trades conducted before the draft begins can include draft picks in 2015, 2016, and 2017. Once the draft starts (i.e., the moment the Commissioner declares the draft to be open and places the team with the first pick on the clock), trades can include picks from 2015, 2016, 2017, and 2018." (NOTE: this article was written before the 2015 draft) http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/03/04/eagles-can-trade-picks-into-2018-draft-once-the-2015-draft-opens/ Couldn't find more. If anyone can show me more, I'd be very willing to learn. Yep that is right.
Max Fischer Posted March 21, 2018 Posted March 21, 2018 11 hours ago, SouthNYfan said: ??? Of all the QBs in history, you picked him to throw on that trip? Well, I kinda remember Aikman as a highly-touted, can’t miss QB who turned out to pretty good. 1
SouthNYfan Posted March 21, 2018 Posted March 21, 2018 11 minutes ago, Max Fischer said: Well, I kinda remember Aikman as a highly-touted, can’t miss QB who turned out to pretty good. Ahhhhh Didn't think if that angle Thanks
Wayne Arnold Posted March 21, 2018 Posted March 21, 2018 Too much. Stay at 12, draft Mason Rudolph, and use the abundance of picks to build around him. 2
vincec Posted March 21, 2018 Posted March 21, 2018 17 hours ago, DJB said: I think its going to cost us 3 1st rounders Pass if that's the case. The Bills could realistically end up with the #3 QB anyway with the twelfth pick. So I'm not sure it's worth it unless they're really, really sold on the 2nd highest rated QB in the draft class. He'd better not be the next Ryan Leaf.
DJB Posted March 21, 2018 Posted March 21, 2018 34 minutes ago, vincec said: Pt that's the case. The Bills c ould realitakeslly end up with the #3 QB anyway with the twelfth pick. So I'm not sure it's worth it unless they're really, really sold on the 2nd highest rated QB in the draft class. He'd better not be the next Ryan Leaf. So you are comfortable settling for the number 3 guy? What happens if Beane doesnt think the 3Rd guy is a franchise guy? Dont settle for a Qb. You go up and get your franchise guy whatever it tskes
vincec Posted March 22, 2018 Posted March 22, 2018 12 hours ago, DJB said: So you are comfortable settling for the number 3 guy? What happens if Beane doesnt think the 3Rd guy is a franchise guy? Dont settle for a Qb. You go up and get your franchise guy whatever it tskes It all depends on their evaluation of the actual players. If you trade a bunch of assets to go to #2 and then draft a bust then you have a total disaster on your hands. You need to really, really believe that the #2 QB will be a franchise QB. If you think it's a 50-50 chance then I'm not sure it's worth the assets you're giving up because the chances for the #3 QB may not be that much worse.
Thurman#1 Posted March 22, 2018 Posted March 22, 2018 On 3/21/2018 at 5:29 PM, GunnerBill said: Yep that is right. Thanks, Bill. Yeah, I can't find anything that contradicts that. So teams could give up 2018, 2019, 2020 and 2021 picks, once the draft has started. And seeing how many FA deals were already completed before the FA period started, they could easily do deals with 2021 picks before the draft started and have them only become official when the draft started.
T master Posted March 22, 2018 Posted March 22, 2018 With McCaron in the mix thats way to much i pray they stay at 12 & get Rudolph, or Jackson . They need to pay attention to the best team in our division & possibly in the league & do some things like they do. We now have a good QB get the best QB available at the number 12 pick which a player like Jackson or Rudolph wouldn't be bad & develop them to either use as the next QB in line or for more draft picks down the line . Because no Darold, Rosen, actually none of the QB's are a definite hit they could be a total miss like so many other supposed "Super QB's" coming out of college . Patience is a virtue when you have a QB that has shown numerous times he can be great given the chance !! Don't want another EJ repeat !! 1
GunnerBill Posted March 22, 2018 Posted March 22, 2018 32 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said: Thanks, Bill. Yeah, I can't find anything that contradicts that. So teams could give up 2018, 2019, 2020 and 2021 picks, once the draft has started. And seeing how many FA deals were already completed before the FA period started, they could easily do deals with 2021 picks before the draft started and have them only become official when the draft started. You have to consider the draft the start of the personnel league year..... so only when team 1 goes "on the clock" does three years from that point include the 2021 draft. Of course a team can in discussions pre-draft say "look we would throw in out 2021 1st". Doesn't change the fact though that other than Cleveland every other team is capped at offering 1 first rounder less than the Bills can offer - which was where Kirby started.
Matt_In_NH Posted March 22, 2018 Posted March 22, 2018 A **** ton! It is also possible Cleveland and NYG are not selling. And they wont be taking an RB if they are unwilling to sell.
Call_Of_Ktulu Posted March 22, 2018 Posted March 22, 2018 On 3/20/2018 at 10:54 PM, DJB said: I think its going to cost us 3 1st rounders I'm 99.9% sure it will, if the Giants don't take a QB this year they will want ammo to have a chance to trade up for one next year.
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