Rumor: Trade up discussion with Giants

[Nihilarian]

4 minutes ago, Tyrod's friend said:

Follow up point:
One year after the draft, Goff might have been considered a mistake. But he was fortunate and his team surrounded him with great talent at LT, 2 WR and one of the best offensive minds around right now. Are you thinking our team is going to follow that path after we move up to #1 or #2 to get Rosen/Darnold? Hmmm. I wonder how.

Two years after the draft, Carson Wentz injured his leg. He is recuperating, but a good part of his value lies in his ability to run/be mobile and attack the defense in multiple ways. He's aggressive and I think he's going to have a lengthy injury record. You might not want to take any victory lap on him either. 

I agree that it's very important that both Wentz and Goff found some brilliant minds to help guide them. Goff, in particular, is so lucky to have Sean McVay as his HC because he really stunk in 2016 with a 0-7 record, 5 TDs, 7 INTs a 54.6 comp% under Jeff Fisher and he was looking like a very poor choice before the new HC. 

 

 

[thebandit27]

4 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

So Chris Trapasso just stated on WGR that he believes Josh Allen or Sam Darnold will be the #1 overall pick.  

These are the whispers and the talks he's been hearing from league personnel....

 

Huh, who'd have thought?

 

 

[Kelly101]

LOL at bloggers...Sal on WGR stated he suggested this on social media

a few days back, then this flunkie reported it coming from his "sources"....

THIS IS EXACTLY HOW THE MEDIA REPORTS THE NEWS!!!!!

[Buffalo Ballin]

This trade is not happening because the Giants rejected this. This is a weak offer from the Bills. And this is our best offer. This was rejected, fellas. Otherwise, this trade would have been done yesterday. We have to be reasonable and realistic; Giants don't want our $hit. Notice that Beane did not offer 2019 First Rounder. Of course, I wouldn't either.  Bills' current proposal, minus 2019 First Rounder, is trash. Giants might have other offers that are better than the Bills such as Denver's 5th, Tampa Bay's 7th, Chicago Bears 8th, 49ers 9th, and so forth.

 

I've said before, I only give up those picks, including 2019 First Rounder, for a healthy Andrew Luck who can pass a physical. Obviously, Luck is not available anymore.

 

We're staying put at 12 and drafting the QB that lands there. Most likely the dude is Lamar Jackson or whoever is higher than Lamar. Only Beane knows that.

 

 

[Tyrod's friend]

2 minutes ago, GG said:

 

Buddy Nix approves of your message.  Eventually you'll strike gold with Levi Brown.  If you're willing to sit through decades of futility.

 

It absolutely blows my mind that Bills fans had a front row seat to 4 general managers over 15 years completely blowing off the QB position with predictable results, and the remedy for the situation is more of the same

It absolutely blows my mind that people like you blather on and on, when there is nothing approaching proof that you need to "move up" to get anything. Just keep stomping your hands and crying - its a very effective tool for making a point. I mean, instead of actually saying something.

Ben wasn't the first QB off the board; neither was Brees, neither was Brady, neither was Cousins and on and on and on. It's worthwhile that my response was to some idiot (was that you? Sorry if it was) saying both that you had to move up to get a QB and that you cannot wait for someone to fall to you. When in fact, moving up ended very badly for the Skins and it was in the same year that their ultimate savior literally fell to them.

Anyways ... 

What you need to do is evaluate talent appropriately, put a proper price tag on it, and don't let emotion get in the way of making trades. To this point, the management has shown us a level head. 

 

[Royale with Cheese]

Just now, thebandit27 said:

 

Huh, who'd have thought?

 

 

 

Please make this happen.  #4 would give us one of the "real" top 3.

[Foxx]

32 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

#1 Tom Brady was a 6th round pick.- WON 6 SBs

#2 Aaron Rodgers was a late 1st, 22nd overall. WON SB

#3 Ben Rothlisberger was a mid-round pick, 11th overall. WON 2 SBs

#4 Drew Brees was a second-round pick, 32nd overall. WON SB

#5 Carson Wentz, first round, 2nd overall pick in 2016.

#6 Russell Wilson was a 3rd pick, 75th overall. WON 2 SB

#7 Cam Newton, 1st overall. went to an SB

#8 Matthew Stafford, 1st overall. playoffs

#9 Andrew Luck, 1st overall. playoffs

#10 Phillip Rivers, 1st round 4th overall. Playoffs

#11Jimmy Garappolo, 2nd round, 62nd overall.

#12 Kirk Cousins, 4th round, 102nd overall.

#13 Jamis Winston, 1st overall.

#14 Dak Prescott, 4th round, 135th overall. Playoffs. 

#15 Marcus Mariota, 1st round, 2nd pick overall. Playoffs

#16 Derek Carr, 2nd round, #36 overall.Playoffs. 

#17 Alex Smith, 1st round, 1st overall. playoffs

#18 Deshaun Watson, 1st round, 12th overall. 

#19 Jared Goff, 1st round, 1st overall.

#20 Andy Dalton, 2nd round, 35th overall. playoffs.

#21 Tyrod Taylor, 6th round,180th overall. playoffs.

#22 Ryan Tannehill, 1st round, 8th overall.

#23 Joe Flacco, 1st round, 18th overall. WON SB

#24 Eli Manning, 1st round, 1st overall. WON 2 SB

#25 Mitch Turbisky, 1st round, 2nd overall. 

#26 Sam Bradford, 1st round, 1st overall. 

#27 Case Keenum -UNDRAFTED

#28 Jay Cutler, 1st round, 11th overall. 

#29 Carson Palmer, 1st round, 1st overall. Playoffs

#30 Deshone Kizer, 2nd round, 52nd overall. 

#31 Trevor Siemian, 7th round, 250th overall.

#32 Blake Bortles, 1st round, 3rd overall. Playoffs

#33 Nick Foles, 3rd round, 88th overall. WON SB 

 

Think I got this pretty close.

 

Looking over all those QBs who have been picked in the top 5 only Eli Manning has won 2 super bowls. Almost half that have been picked very early and made the playoffs. Six QB's have won super bowls have been picked later than the top 5, three are first round picks. 

 

I think the point here is not the fact that Buffalo hasn't spent the picks to find that franchise QB because they did try with first-round pick JP Losman, or third-round pick Trent Edwards. I think it's more of a testimony of their scouting/talent evaluation incompetence since the Jim Kelly days.

 

You don't NEED to draft a QB with the first or second overall pick. You just NEED to know what the hell you are doing when you evaluate them. 

 

wasn't there also someone named Peyton?

[The Tomcat]

7 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

 

 

This franchise has gone nearly 60 years without ever using its highest draft slot on a QB.  At some point, isn't it time to stop aiming and pull the trigger?

Todd Collins?...not sure but thats what I thought when I read it.

EDIT....nope Collins was selected in the 1995 NFL Draft by the Buffalo Bills in the second round with the 45th overall pick

 

please continue on to the next reply.  Rueben was the #1 that year

 

Edited March 20, 2018 by The Tomcat

[Tyrod's friend]

Just now, Foxx said:

wasn't there also someone named Peyton?

Actually, in bringing that up you are making the point for the poster. Because you have to consider who was picked second that same year.

The Chargers traded up to get Ryan Leaf.

2 minutes ago, gobills1212 said:

 Oh my... 

Ok, so... the Bills have 2 this year. 

3 1st rd picks, would include 2 this year and 1 next THUS giving up 2 years of 1st rd picks-theoretically of course.

The Skins however, had to use 3 years of 1st round picks as they didn'

just stop.

Please.

[#34fan]

1 hour ago, Wayne Cubed said:

 

Man that Sammy Watkins trade really set the franchise back 10 years didn't it? Or did they just end the drought 3 years later? I can't remember.

 

I love your plan, just keep hoping a QB lands in their lap, brilliant. And "bite the bullet" got the Bills Dareus and Mike Williams, you need to bit the bullet and have it a year where there is a QB to take.

 

1 hour ago, Wayne Cubed said:

 

Thank you, that was my point.

 

You want to make your point about trading up for a playoff QB....

 

By using a year we made the playoffs with a 6th round QB..

 

And by illustration of a trade for a WR that wasn't on the team for that playoff appearance.

 

 

 

Edited March 20, 2018 by #34fan

[BillsMafia13]

1 hour ago, Tyrod's friend said:

? The Redskins traded 

that year's 1st round

that year's  2nd Round

Plus #1 in the NEXT TWO YEARS

They were barren. It's actually quite an Apple to Apple comparison. You are saying a team won't get hurt by trading up. The Skins were totally fckd ...

And on top of that you made some kind of comment that you can't just wait for a QB to fall into your laps. LMAO. GTFO here.

Good point, skins blew it by selling the farm for a qb.  Only to have the qb they waited for turn into the highest paid qb in the league.  Nothing connects that situation to us but it is kind of the golden example.  No qbs worth it in 2019 so might as well go all in now

[Foxx]

3 minutes ago, Tyrod's friend said:

Actually, in bringing that up you are making the point for the poster. Because you have to consider who was picked second that same year.

The Chargers traded up to get Ryan Leaf.

 

just looking for factual accuracy here. there was another player selected in the top 5 that also won 2 Superbowls.

Edited March 20, 2018 by Foxx

[BuffaloBob]

17 minutes ago, GG said:

 

Buddy Nix approves of your message.  Eventually you'll strike gold with Levi Brown.  If you're willing to sit through decades of futility.

 

It absolutely blows my mind that Bills fans had a front row seat to 4 general managers over 15 years completely blowing off the QB position with predictable results, and the remedy for the situation is more of the same

Waiting until the 12th, the 22nd or even the second round is hardly blowing off the QB position.  It is all about value.  Teams that chase guys and grossly overpay in value are not successful over the long term.

[#34fan]

37 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

 At what point was this team in position to land Mariota instead of Darby?

 

Because of the Watkins trade, there wasn't a 1st rounder in '15 to parlay with anything... Instead we got Ron Darby.

 

It seems like we consistently pick the WRONG year to make these moves.

[thebandit27]

5 minutes ago, #34fan said:

 

 

You want to make you point about trading up for a playoff QB....

 

By using a year we made the playoffs with a 6th round QB..

 

And by illustration of a trade for a WR that wasn't on the team for that playoff appearance.

 

 

 

 

How can you be missing the point this badly? His point is that giving up picks to move up doesn't set the team back at all.  With every post you reiterate that his point is salient...if the guy that they traded a future #1 pick and a 4th round pick to move up and acquire wasn't even on the team 3 seasons later when they made the playoffs, how is trading multiple assets to move up mortgaging he future?

Just now, #34fan said:

 

Because of the Watkins trade, there wasn't a 1st rounder in '15 to parlay with anything... Instead we got Ron Darby.

 

It seems like we consistently pick the WRONG year to make these moves.

 

You're contending that they were somehow going to go from the 19th overall pick to the 2nd overall pick that year?  No, that wasn't going to happen; they lacked the assets.

 

Also, if the implication is that this is also the wrong year to make such a move, then I ask again: if not now, when?

[Wayne Cubed]

Just now, #34fan said:

 

 

You want to make you point about trading up for a playoff QB....

 

By using a year we made the playoffs with a 6th round QB..

 

And by illustration of a trade for a WR that wasn't on the team for that playoff appearance.

 

 

 

 

Just stop, the point has completely sailed over your head and you’re embarrassing yourself. You can use as many emojis as you like, it still doesn’t make it funny to anyone but you.

 

You said that giving up draft assets could set this franchise back 10 years. The Bills gave up draft assets to select a WR and 3 years later, without that WR, without their 2nd round pick from the following year, without their 2011 1st round pick on the team, they made the playoffs.

 

Tell me more about giving up draft assists and keep banging the drum, you’re doing an excellent job.

 

Here’s to another 10 year set back.

 

? <——— see what I did there?

[Bills Freak]

1 hour ago, Wayne Cubed said:

 

This is "Trust The Process."

 

Trading away players and dumping salaries has all led to this point, the Bills can not sit on their hands here and kick the can down the road.

I completely agree & it would be hard to sit down & can kick simultaneously anyway.

[gobills1212]

36 minutes ago, Tyrod's friend said:

Actually, in bringing that up you are making the point for the poster. Because you have to consider who was picked second that same year.

The Chargers traded up to get Ryan Leaf.

just stop.

Please.

Ok, so... the Bills have 2 this year. 

3 1st rd picks, would include 2 this year and 1 next THUS giving up 2 years of 1st rd picks-theoretically of course.

The Skins however, had to use 3 years of 1st round picks as they didn't have 2 in the same year. THUS giving up 3 years of 1st round picks. (2 without)

 

As far as 'some comment' about not waiting for a qb to fall into your lap- my god! If you are going to poke at a comment you disagree with, at least get the comment correct. Don't be lazy and take a holier than thou approach ESPECIALLY when you dont even know what you are talking about.

If there is a guy they like - go get him! At all costs! Its essentially a pass to trade up WITHOUT having to sell the farm.

Life tip #1 - learn math.

Life tip #2 - dont be lazy

Life tip #3 - when trying to be a jerk, at least have your facts correct so you dont come out looking like a donkey. 

 

You think the most pertinent and sensible thing to do is stand pat. 

Go figure, you are also a Tyrod fan. I totally understand you are still working through some things there and might be a little ornery - but dont take it out on your fellow fans. 

The cache that has been collected has been done so in an excellent year for both talent and opportunity.  

I think the most sensible thing to do is swing for the fence and try and get the guy who can keep us in any game for the next 10 years.

Another little piece of advice for your personal interaction skills - if you want to be taken seriously in a situation where neither you nor I can be proven correct and its simply POV -POV - dont be close minded and condescending. It just makes tools out of folks. You obviously arent pulling your point out of thin air, but its MUCH harder to even listen let along take it seriously when you act like that. 

I've said it before and I'll say it again... guess whos NOT the Bills GM? YOU or I. That means there is at least 1 person in this world smarter than you and go figure.... HE is the person making the decision!!!

So, if you can bring the ignorance level down a bit and would like to have a discussion like a normal human being -please, explain how the Bills parting with 2 #1s this year (to get to 2 - a #1 rd pick in return) along with a #1 in 2019 WHICH still allows a semblance of a normal draft in BOTH years is A) selling the farm B) ANYTHING like what the Skins did OTHER than trade 3 rd 1 picks in total.

The Sammy trade in the end was a loser - but we essentially have a bonus 1st this year and the Watkins trade didnt put the Bills in the dumpster for years top come...so why couldnt they survive what essentially amounts to next years draft w/o a 1st rounder? EVEN if we went crazy and (just for the sake of discussion) gave up both 1s this year and a 2nd, along with next years 1. That still leaves you with your QB drafted in the 1st, a 2nd, 2 3's and aside from next years 1 - EVERYTHING else is the same. To me, that isnt exactly a franchise killer let alone one for years to come... unless you are making an assumption about the rookie qb and if thats the case there is a saying for that....

 

 

 

 

Good luck to you...

Edited March 20, 2018 by gobills1212

[GG]

14 minutes ago, Tyrod's friend said:

It absolutely blows my mind that people like you blather on and on, when there is nothing approaching proof that you need to "move up" to get anything. Just keep stomping your hands and crying - its a very effective tool for making a point. I mean, instead of actually saying something.

Ben wasn't the first QB off the board; neither was Brees, neither was Brady, neither was Cousins and on and on and on. It's worthwhile that my response was to some idiot (was that you? Sorry if it was) saying both that you had to move up to get a QB and that you cannot wait for someone to fall to you. When in fact, moving up ended very badly for the Skins and it was in the same year that their ultimate savior literally fell to them.

Anyways ... 

What you need to do is evaluate talent appropriately, put a proper price tag on it, and don't let emotion get in the way of making trades. To this point, the management has shown us a level head. 

 

 

There's only one way to guarantee to never get a hit, and that's never taking a swing.  Keep battling against the odds and enjoy another 17 years of futility, Buddy.  

 

One of these days you'll show off the baby.

[gobills1212]

1 hour ago, Radar said:

Hopefully no on Trump and hopefully soon for the Sabres.  Now was your response in anyway related to my post?

You said no way they were trading up. I figured as long as you had the ol' crystal ball dusted off I'd see what the future held!