Tyrod's friend Posted March 20, 2018 Posted March 20, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, MrEpsYtown said: I really am interested to see some comparison of Davis Webb to some of the guys in this draft. I know he feel to the third last year. If he were in this draft where would he rank? That should have some effect on the Giants thinking. Davis Webb was the 7th ranked QB in 2017; taken as the fifth QB and given a 5.4 rating - I've gone pretty far down the rankings for this year. Once you get to 5.4 NFL Tracker is notably unreliable. FWIW, Nathan Peterman was rated 5.7 - as was McCarron. A ranking of 5.7 would be "Early NFL Starter" - and Webb did not qualify. In recent years I believe only Dak Prescott scored below a 5.5 and actually was a first year starter. I can't say for other positions, but I find the ranking system for QBs to be pretty remarkable in terms of where players are drafted relative to peers. PLAYER POS HT WT COLLEGE GRADE WATCH DARNOLD, SAM* QB 6'3" 220 USC 7.0 ROSEN, JOSH* QB 6'4" 226 UCLA 6.1 MAYFIELD, BAKER QB 6'1" 215 Oklahoma 6.0 ALLEN, JOSH QB 6'5" 233 Wyoming 6.0 JACKSON, LAMAR* QB 6'3" 200 Louisville 5.9 RUDOLPH, MASON QB 6'5" 235 Oklahoma St. 5.6 WHITE, MIKE QB 6'4" 225 Western Kentucky 5.6 Edited March 20, 2018 by Tyrod's friend
Kirby Jackson Posted March 20, 2018 Posted March 20, 2018 Just now, H2o said: Mayfield isn't "slow" on the field. He can run if need be. He is no Lamar Jackson of course, but he is quick/fast enough to scramble if a hole opens up or if he needs to buy a little time. I’m not a Rudolph guy, but he is the same way. He can pick up 1st downs with his legs if the play breaks down. He ran pretty impressively in the bowl game IMO.
thebandit27 Posted March 20, 2018 Posted March 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, #34fan said: ALL THAT???? -For kid who may not even be able to play??? This, people, is exactly why you tank... -It only hurts ONCE... -This trade could debilitate a team for the better part of a decade. No, no it can't. It's one draft class--if you get it wrong, you go after another QB next offseason. I swear, some folks think that if you wait long enough a franchise QB just drops into your lap. It's been 20 years since Kelly retired; it would've happened by now if that approach worked. 1
MrEpsYtown Posted March 20, 2018 Posted March 20, 2018 1 minute ago, H2o said: Mayfield isn't "slow" on the field. He can run if need be. He is no Lamar Jackson of course, but he is quick/fast enough to scramble if a hole opens up or if he needs to buy a little time. That sounds good on paper but when all of the guys on defense are bigger and faster than you in the NFL you are likely to get yourself killed. Unless Preston Brown is the linebacker across from you. Then you are free to scramble all you want.
Solomon Grundy Posted March 20, 2018 Posted March 20, 2018 48 minutes ago, cd1 said: TOO MUCH Capital for a crap shoot. I agree!! Bills have too many holes to give away picks in a talent rich draft!! Get your QB @12 and build your roster. Beane said he likes to build his teams through the draft. 1
Tyrod's friend Posted March 20, 2018 Posted March 20, 2018 1 minute ago, thebandit27 said: No, no it can't.[debilitate a team for years] ... The Washington Redskins are calling to say Hi. Something about not having a good draft position for years, and only getting freaking lucky a 4th round pick ... um .. FELL INTO THEIR LAPS.
Wayne Cubed Posted March 20, 2018 Posted March 20, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: No, no it can't. It's one draft class--if you get it wrong, you go after another QB next offseason. I swear, some folks think that if you wait long enough a franchise QB just drops into your lap. It's been 20 years since Kelly retired; it would've happened by now if that approach worked. And in the 17 years of the drought the highest the Bills have drafted is 3, Marcel Dareus and 4, Mike Williams. Picking high in the draft doesn’t even guarantee one is going to drop in your lap. Make your evaluations and go get your guy! Edited March 20, 2018 by Wayne Cubed
MrEpsYtown Posted March 20, 2018 Posted March 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, Tyrod's friend said: Davis Webb was the 7th ranked QB in 2017; taken as the fifth QB and given a 5.4 rating - I've gone pretty far down the rankings for this year. Once you get to 5.4 NFL Tracker is notably unreliable. FWIW, Nathan Peterman was rated 5.7 - as was McCarron. A ranking of 5.7 would be "Early NFL Starter" - and Webb did not qualify. In recent years I believe only Dak Prescott scored below a 5.5 and actually was a first year starter. I can't say for other positions, but I find the ranking system for QBs to be pretty remarkable in terms of where players are drafted relative to peers. PLAYER POS HT WT COLLEGE GRADE WATCH DARNOLD, SAM* QB 6'3" 220 USC 7.0 ROSEN, JOSH* QB 6'4" 226 UCLA 6.1 MAYFIELD, BAKER QB 6'1" 215 Oklahoma 6.0 ALLEN, JOSH QB 6'5" 233 Wyoming 6.0 JACKSON, LAMAR* QB 6'3" 200 Louisville 5.9 RUDOLPH, MASON QB 6'5" 235 Oklahoma St. 5.6 WHITE, MIKE QB 6'4" 225 Western Kentucky 5.6 Thanks for that. It helps put things in perspective. 1
Chandler#81 Posted March 20, 2018 Posted March 20, 2018 1 hour ago, thebandit27 said: I've asked this a few times, but haven't really gotten a response from anyone else, so I'll ask you... This franchise has been in existence for almost 60 years, and has never used it's first draft slot to select a QB. If now is not the time to be aggressive, then when? Ritchie Lucas says ‘Hello’.
gobills1212 Posted March 20, 2018 Posted March 20, 2018 52 minutes ago, Lurker said: Define first. There was Manual (#16) in 2013... Manuel was all you could come up with there? Kelly was the Bills 2nd 1st rd pick in 83. Then, we wanted to not be left out of the QB party when the Big Ben deal fell through and traded BACK into the 1st and took none other than JP Losman - the best of the rest type deal. 2013 was a poor QB year which figures, bc Buffalo was dead set on taking a qb. Even after a trade back they still got the 1st off the board - your man EJ. So, what he meant was NEVER have the Bills identified a guy at the top in a qlty crop and said 'lets get this guy'. Kelly aside, its been low rd pick projects, bad qb crops, or reaches. Now, they have a VERY unique opportunity. Tons of ammo/draft capital. Tons of talent. Tons of need. Tons of future cap space. Even TONS of fans ok with a building year. Its a perfect storm for them to take their shot on a top talent with a top pick and hope it sets them up for the next 10-15 years. Along with it comes Tons of anticipation:) Trading a TON and missing can be almost as detrimental as going all in on a so-so guy or keep deferring and drafting in a year like 2013 where there was zip EVEN if you picked the best. For these reasons and im sure i missed a few - its a good time to change the Bills QB draft history.... for better or worse... but hopefully better
Chuck Wagon Posted March 20, 2018 Posted March 20, 2018 13 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: No, no it can't. It's one draft class--if you get it wrong, you go after another QB next offseason. I swear, some folks think that if you wait long enough a franchise QB just drops into your lap. It's been 20 years since Kelly retired; it would've happened by now if that approach worked. If you wait long enough the league will feel sorry for you and give you a free QB. However, if you trade up and draft a QB at the top of the draft and he busts, the NFL will take the team and move it to London.
thebandit27 Posted March 20, 2018 Posted March 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, Wayne Cubed said: And in the 17 years of the draft the highest the Bills have drafted is 3, Marcel Dareus and 4, Mike Williams. Picking high in the draft doesn’t even guarantee one is going to drop in your lap. Make your evaluations and go get your guy! Exactly. The point is that you have to capitalize on the opportunity to get your guy when you have the chance. It's no different than needing a QB and having the No. 2 overall pick--you're in position to get your guy, so you do it without question. Right now, Buffalo has the draft capitol to get in position to get their guy; not doing it would be the height of insanity IMO
BillsMafia13 Posted March 20, 2018 Posted March 20, 2018 39 minutes ago, joesixpack said: Sure thing little buddy. Suuuuure thing. I knew we were going to become great friends eventually
Franco_92 Posted March 20, 2018 Posted March 20, 2018 9 minutes ago, #34fan said: ALL THAT???? -For kid who may not even be able to play??? This, people, is exactly why you tank... -It only hurts ONCE... -This trade could debilitate a team for the better part of a decade. We would literally still have a full draft. But "wait til next year"..."the time isn't right"...and ten years of 7-9 to 9-7 go by with every team in that stretch having at least one franchise qb while we sit on our thumbs spinning in circles making sure we have our Matt Milanos and Karlos Williams's.
thebandit27 Posted March 20, 2018 Posted March 20, 2018 4 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said: Ritchie Lucas says ‘Hello’. Two full decades before my time, but wasn't Lucas a signee in the inaugural AFL "free agent" (for lack of a better term) chase? I could be wrong...
BillsFan2313 Posted March 20, 2018 Posted March 20, 2018 9 minutes ago, #34fan said: ALL THAT???? -For kid who may not even be able to play??? This, people, is exactly why you tank... -It only hurts ONCE... -This trade could debilitate a team for the better part of a decade. How so? Let's say the proposed trade happens. The Bills will have the #2 pick, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th round picks. How would it debilitate the team even if the QB flames out?
Wayne Cubed Posted March 20, 2018 Posted March 20, 2018 4 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: Exactly. The point is that you have to capitalize on the opportunity to get your guy when you have the chance. It's no different than needing a QB and having the No. 2 overall pick--you're in position to get your guy, so you do it without question. Right now, Buffalo has the draft capitol to get in position to get their guy; not doing it would be the height of insanity IMO This is "Trust The Process." Trading away players and dumping salaries has all led to this point, the Bills can not sit on their hands here and kick the can down the road. 1 1
rodneykm Posted March 20, 2018 Posted March 20, 2018 (edited) Getting multiple potential starters at multiple different positions vs taking a shot at a franchise QB. Its time to take our shot at an elite QB. Edited March 20, 2018 by rodneykm 2 1
H2o Posted March 20, 2018 Posted March 20, 2018 9 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said: That sounds good on paper but when all of the guys on defense are bigger and faster than you in the NFL you are likely to get yourself killed. Unless Preston Brown is the linebacker across from you. Then you are free to scramble all you want. Mayfield is a QB first and all QB's get hit from time to time. He is not Lamar Jackson running around all of the time.
ghostwriter Posted March 20, 2018 Posted March 20, 2018 23 minutes ago, the skycap said: I'm confused. Josh Allen had as good a supporting cast as Lamar Jackson yet Jackson had better stats, won more games against top flight competition and won the Heisman trophy but Allen is a better prospect? Jackson had a better supporting cast, I bet you more players from Louisville get drafted than players from Wyoming. Would you like to bet me on that? Allen has a better arm than Jackson, much better size, can take more punishment, I think Allen would have posted better stats than Jackson had he played for Louisville.
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