Dan Patrick: Bills have called Browns about #1 pick

[Boca BIlls]

29 minutes ago, Success said:

Having lots of picks in a deep and talented draft?

 

I’d have to disagree.

If you have no QB to lead them...

[Saxum]

5 hours ago, Boatdrinks said:

This possibility was a big part of the reason the Colts chose to move to 6. They don't have tons of cap space and need players. The haul from the Jets was solid, and the potential to acquire even more picks from a team like BUF made the #6 spot a great move. 

 

The Jest trade may end up being one of the worst trades in NFL history.

 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Wait what? I thought the other thread said we didn't contact them!? What the hell is going on in here !!!

 

 

[Boca BIlls]

I dont doubt McBeane called about picks 1-10 just to get a feel for each teams want.

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

3 hours ago, ndirish1978 said:

 

 

I posted this response to a question. The tweet has profanity in it. Mods, please feel free to delete the message if you want. I'm not trying to circumvent the language rules. 

 

 

[Saxum]

5 hours ago, apuszczalowski said:

Would being raised Jewish then be a plus in the New York Market?

 

Very. I went to UB and a good portion of the dorms were filled with NYC students getting as far as they could from parents but still have their parents pay in state tuition.  Their were donations to research for "non practicing" professors with Jewish background just because they were Jewish while other professors got nothing.  A few professors got smart and let one just handle the money raising and events while others worked research even though all got credit.  One of working professors (I was a TA) said "raising money is part of research".

 

5 hours ago, Chuck Wagon said:

It very well might be, but it wouldn't be the first time an exec has sacrificed what's best long term for a franchise over trying to ensure himself another paycheck.

 

As long as they judge them on narrow results (stats) rather what they actually accomplished based on what was available they should. 

 

5 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

 

It should be a plus in every market!  Haven't you ever had kugel and potato latkes?  My mother was Jewish, and that woman made potato latkes and kugel that could end wars.

 

Yeah one of the students from NYC would get care packages from mom in school and that dish made him some best friends from middle east there although he never told his parents that since they were very big bigots. 

[GreggTX]

I get it -- People think the Bills are snoozing, but all of these top QB prospects have questions that concern me. Darnold -- Turnovers, Mayfield -- Arm strength, Rosen -- Deep throws, Allen -- Completion %. Beane can get an awful lot of talent and still get Mike White on day 2. Then, if McCarron busts, we'll be in good shape for the 2019 draft. 

 

I'm not saying none of these top 4 prospects will make it, but the last time we got desparate, we ended up drafting EJ Manual in the 1st round. Maybe this will all work out. Maybe not. As Marv Levy said, the draft is a crapshoot.

Edited March 19, 2018 by GreggTX

[Magox]

2 minutes ago, GreggTX said:

I get the sense that the Bills are snoozing, but all of these top QB prospects have questions that concern me. Darnold -- Turnovers, Mayfield -- Arm strength, Rosen -- Deep throws, Allen -- Completion %. Beane can get an awful lot of talent and still get Mike White on day 2. Then, if McCarron busts, we'll be in good shape for the 2019 draft. 

 

I'm not saying none of these top 4 prospects will make it, but the last time we got desparate, we ended up drafting EJ Manual in the 1st round. Maybe this will all work out. Maybe not. As Marv Levy said, the draft is a crapshoot.

They may be doing alot of things, snoozing ain't one of them. 

[BuffaloBob]

6 hours ago, BillsFan17 said:

Again, we trade our starting QB, then jump up to 12th overall. Teams know Buffalos' intentions by now.

 

Hence why the Colts got the return they did from the Jets. Jets felt the heat from Buffalo moving up and thought they needed to strike asap.

I just do not agree with this analysis, and have seen it from a number of posters, as well as callers into GR. 

 

There are other reasons that can logically explain those two moves (or others that they have made before them) other than that they are hell-bent for leather to get to the top of the draft for a quarterback.  They were ready to move on from Tyrod and had a looming $6 million dollar bonus, in addition to the cap savings from having him removed from the roster.  They had free agents they wanted to sign and needed the cap space.  Cleveland stepping up gave Tyrod a nice landing spot and we got a killer draft asset. 

 

As for Cordy, same thing.  They were not interested in keeping a guy on the roster with his cap hit who was barely available for 50% of the past two seasons, expecially with Dawkins clearly demonstrating that he could handle the position for far less money.  That the Bengals were there with a need and willingness to swap first round picks was a godsend, not some part of a series of pre-planned chess moves masterminded for the one singular end purpose of drafting a QB in the top 1-5 picks.  They were instead an aggregate set of moves that served a number of purposes, only ONE of which was to improve their flexibility to improve the team in the draft.  And while that no doubt included the QB position, it was certainly NOT to do so, ab initio, to the exclusion of the rest of the team.

 

Every one of the moves they have made since the draft last year was with the idea of increasing their draft capital yes, but also to rid themselves of players that were not part of their current plans, thereby increasing cap space and changing the culture, as well as improving their overall draft assets.  Until the season ended, they had no idea where they (or the Chiefs) would end up.  Beane stated that before the combine, they were blowing off spending time with guys they KNEW they had no shot at getting sitting at 21 and 22, and those included impact players not QBs.  So he unlikely did NOT know, at least to a certainty, that he was going to make those two deals for Tyrod or Cordy. 

 

This idea that the Bills were making all of these moves for only one reason, to get to the top of the draft for a top-rated QB prospect, presumes that there is some guy that they believe is worth all of that draft capital, and that they are going to chase that guy and pay whatever it takes to get him.  This is not only assuming facts not in evidence, it is NOT the way these guys operate.  Beane made it clear that they place values on players, and they trust those valuations and will abide by them.  He said that he asks his guys to point out if he himself appears to be chasing a guy, and he said he will do the same with them. 

 

I think he is making it clear that they are NOT going to do what the Jets just did, which was to trade away assets and overpay just to "get one of those three top-rated guys, no matter which one..." These guys are going to place their values on each of those guys, and if it is going to cost them any more than a modest premium over their assigned value, they ain't going to do it.  Period.

 

This perception that they wouldn't have made the moves they have made unless they were going to get up to the top 5 come hell-or-high-water reads waaay more into it than is there.  It certainly is possible that they covet one or two of them, but I also trust that they are not going to do whatever it takes to get them if the cost significantly exceeds their assigned value.  I think it more likely that they do their due diligence, and then let the draft evolve, being prepared for several contingency plans.  If they can get a guy they like without majorly exceeding their assigned value, they will.  Otherwise, I think they will wait to see who drops out of the top 5 and if a guy they also like at the reduced cost is there, they will go that route.  But I trust that they will not stray from the values they have assigned and will not chase a guy just because everyone thinks they are going to, or that they should. 

Edited March 19, 2018 by BuffaloBob

[GreggTX]

1 minute ago, Magox said:

They may be doing alot of things, snoozing ain't one of them. 

I get the sense that Beane isn't going to let anyone get the better of him and he'd like to keep that 22nd pick and still have a couple picks on day 2 rather than going all in on 1 guy like the Skins did for RG3. A move like that would set us back years -- giving up so many high picks and getting RG4 (or EJ2.0) in return.

[peterpan]

Bet the farm on Rosen.  Ask the browns what they want, then say yes to whatever they ask for. Rosen is the chosen one

[thebandit27]

21 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

Very. I went to UB and a good portion of the dorms were filled with NYC students getting as far as they could from parents but still have their parents pay in state tuition.  Their were donations to research for "non practicing" professors with Jewish background just because they were Jewish while other professors got nothing.  A few professors got smart and let one just handle the money raising and events while others worked research even though all got credit.  One of working professors (I was a TA) said "raising money is part of research".

 

 

As long as they judge them on narrow results (stats) rather what they actually accomplished based on what was available they should. 

 

 

Yeah one of the students from NYC would get care packages from mom in school and that dish made him some best friends from middle east there although he never told his parents that since they were very big bigots. 

 

Kugel--ending wars...I like it

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

30 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

Wait what? I thought the other thread said we didn't contact them!? What the hell is going on in here !!!

 

 

Im so confused ?‍♂️ 

[BillsFan4]

56 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

The "new math' formula rule was cited when Texans signed Denver QB to a 4 year deal.  How did the grade on the new math work?

 

I am assuming the Jets front office was just dumb.

 

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying here? Maybe it's just going over my head. 

 

I was talking about my own math in adding up the draft value points of the draft picks given up in that trade up (according to what each draft pick is worth on the draft value chart). There were a lot of decimal points and I did it quickly so I wasn't sure if all my math was exact. 

[Saxum]

35 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said:

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying here? Maybe it's just going over my head. 

 

I was talking about my own math in adding up the draft value points of the draft picks given up in that trade up (according to what each draft pick is worth on the draft value chart). There were a lot of decimal points and I did it quickly so I wasn't sure if all my math was exact. 

 

Not on that. When Houston signed Denver's QB posters said the old value chart was thrown away.  Again posters are saying that rather than just stating the JESTS made a bad trade.

[BillsFan4]

12 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

Not on that. When Houston signed Denver's QB posters said the old value chart was thrown away.  Again posters are saying that rather than just stating the JESTS made a bad trade.

 

 

Are you talking about when the Texans signed Osweiller? 

 

If so he was a free agent. What value chart are you referring to? 

 

I guess I am not seeing how a team signing a free agent has anything to do with a trade up in the draft and the Jimmy Johnson draft pick value chart I was referring to. 

 

All I was doing was looking at the trade up that just happened and adding up the draft points given up (based on the Jimmy Johnson draft value chart that assigns points to each draft pick). 

 

I was saying the Jets paid too much and IF the Giants now think that trade set the market value for a trade up this year, it'll be tough to match. I have no idea if that is the case or not though. Hopefully the Giants would be willing to accept something a bit more reasonable. 

[Mr_Robotulism]

Trade 12, 22 and 56 for the #4 pick from Browns 

 

Then trade 4, 65 and 2019 2nd round pick for the #2 pick from Giants 

 

Have #2, 53....

[apuszczalowski]

2 hours ago, GreggTX said:

I get it -- People think the Bills are snoozing, but all of these top QB prospects have questions that concern me. Darnold -- Turnovers, Mayfield -- Arm strength, Rosen -- Deep throws, Allen -- Completion %. Beane can get an awful lot of talent and still get Mike White on day 2. Then, if McCarron busts, we'll be in good shape for the 2019 draft. 

 

I'm not saying none of these top 4 prospects will make it, but the last time we got desparate, we ended up drafting EJ Manual in the 1st round. Maybe this will all work out. Maybe not. As Marv Levy said, the draft is a crapshoot.

Thats the problem, none of the top guys are hands down generational franchise QBs like Luck, or Manning(s). Its more likely they are the next Winston, Marriotta Caliber. Good but not great QBs and not worth a boatload of picks to get. Because people are desperate to grab the next Brady they think that its all about just giving up picks and getting that guy, then you become an automatic contender. Just ask the Colts, Lions, and Chargers how thats working out for them....... 

[BillsFan17]

14 hours ago, BuffaloBob said:

I just do not agree with this analysis, and have seen it from a number of posters, as well as callers into GR. 

 

There are other reasons that can logically explain those two moves (or others that they have made before them) other than that they are hell-bent for leather to get to the top of the draft for a quarterback.  They were ready to move on from Tyrod and had a looming $6 million dollar bonus, in addition to the cap savings from having him removed from the roster.  They had free agents they wanted to sign and needed the cap space.  Cleveland stepping up gave Tyrod a nice landing spot and we got a killer draft asset. 

 

As for Cordy, same thing.  They were not interested in keeping a guy on the roster with his cap hit who was barely available for 50% of the past two seasons, expecially with Dawkins clearly demonstrating that he could handle the position for far less money.  That the Bengals were there with a need and willingness to swap first round picks was a godsend, not some part of a series of pre-planned chess moves masterminded for the one singular end purpose of drafting a QB in the top 1-5 picks.  They were instead an aggregate set of moves that served a number of purposes, only ONE of which was to improve their flexibility to improve the team in the draft.  And while that no doubt included the QB position, it was certainly NOT to do so, ab initio, to the exclusion of the rest of the team.

 

Every one of the moves they have made since the draft last year was with the idea of increasing their draft capital yes, but also to rid themselves of players that were not part of their current plans, thereby increasing cap space and changing the culture, as well as improving their overall draft assets.  Until the season ended, they had no idea where they (or the Chiefs) would end up.  Beane stated that before the combine, they were blowing off spending time with guys they KNEW they had no shot at getting sitting at 21 and 22, and those included impact players not QBs.  So he unlikely did NOT know, at least to a certainty, that he was going to make those two deals for Tyrod or Cordy. 

 

This idea that the Bills were making all of these moves for only one reason, to get to the top of the draft for a top-rated QB prospect, presumes that there is some guy that they believe is worth all of that draft capital, and that they are going to chase that guy and pay whatever it takes to get him.  This is not only assuming facts not in evidence, it is NOT the way these guys operate.  Beane made it clear that they place values on players, and they trust those valuations and will abide by them.  He said that he asks his guys to point out if he himself appears to be chasing a guy, and he said he will do the same with them. 

 

I think he is making it clear that they are NOT going to do what the Jets just did, which was to trade away assets and overpay just to "get one of those three top-rated guys, no matter which one..." These guys are going to place their values on each of those guys, and if it is going to cost them any more than a modest premium over their assigned value, they ain't going to do it.  Period.

 

This perception that they wouldn't have made the moves they have made unless they were going to get up to the top 5 come hell-or-high-water reads waaay more into it than is there.  It certainly is possible that they covet one or two of them, but I also trust that they are not going to do whatever it takes to get them if the cost significantly exceeds their assigned value.  I think it more likely that they do their due diligence, and then let the draft evolve, being prepared for several contingency plans.  If they can get a guy they like without majorly exceeding their assigned value, they will.  Otherwise, I think they will wait to see who drops out of the top 5 and if a guy they also like at the reduced cost is there, they will go that route.  But I trust that they will not stray from the values they have assigned and will not chase a guy just because everyone thinks they are going to, or that they should. 

Never said these moves were made to get into the top ten come hell or high water.

 

And it's terrific you laid out the added bonuses of moving the players, but if you genuinely think all these moves had the QB position as an afterthought...

 

The second they restructured Tyrod last year you knew McDermott was not sold on him as the future, was willing to give him tight leashed audition. Hence the benching of Tyrod mid playoff race.

 

Everything you laid out is what makes the move up for a QB that much more impressive, what Beane was able to accomplish while in the thick of trading up for a QB.

 

The Bills have heavily scouted at least 10 QBs out of this class, ironically they never went to see Josh Allen live during the season. Only signed McCaron and have Peterman as a back up.

 

As far as paying whay the Jets did, the Bills literally have a draft and a half worth of picks, McDermott has made it clear they need a franchise QB. They could over pay and still have a quality amount of picks this year and next. 

 

I'm glad your boots are dug in that he won't overpay, and that McDermott/Beane have made all these moves to go bargain shopping at the QB position. Nothing gives your scouts and organization more confidence than pinpointing a franchise QB or at the least two of them, to be like nahhhhh well just wait to see who falls.

Edited March 20, 2018 by BillsFan17

[Manther]

22 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

I'll be surprised if the Browns move out of #1. 

Agreed