Over 29 years of fanhood Posted March 19, 2018 Posted March 19, 2018 (edited) Allen. While I notice he runs for his life quite a bit, his passes are rarely accurate. Offense appears to use his arm strength where there roll him to one side and he throws back accross the field. Arm is ridiculous. Ball placement isn’t Rudolph I expected nothing here. But there is something... i notice his lower body doesn’t do much when he throws. But his deep ball is very good if not exceptional. Despite him being considered a lower tier prospect, he throws with anticipation and seems to have some shred of pocket presence. made poor decisions in crunch time. I see Flacco ish tendencies? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATT1uImROIA&sns=em Baker some compare him to JFF off the field. I see a little of it on the field. They clearly feel they need to move him out of the pocket on the deep middle throws. quick release accuracy was nice in this game. I’ll get slayed for this but I see a slightly more gifted arm, and slightly less gifted athlete than Tyrod. http://youtu.be/PPZfvYHcDBc Rosen polished- looks like a pro QB. At first thought I was thinking this must have been Manning in college. But then, Forces it and/or totally misfires. Still dont know what to make of this guy. http://youtu.be/vlpKWKUyM-U Darnold had difficuling getting something newer. This on has a nice mix of what to like and not like. I can see the luck comparison, very similar game Super quick release accunrate whenfeet are set, not always doing that as BLM below found- rarely under center. Jackson a more polarizing qb he runs when they call runs and throws wen they call throws. May be the sleeper in the class Edited March 19, 2018 by Over 29 years of fanhood 1
Misterbluesky Posted March 19, 2018 Posted March 19, 2018 I really never noticed how fast Allen's release is.Damn. 1
Reed83HOF Posted March 19, 2018 Posted March 19, 2018 46 minutes ago, Misterbluesky said: I really never noticed how fast Allen's release is.Damn. His release and cannon arm are awesome.... if he was remotely accurate; I could easily see Cle selecting him #1 1
BadLandsMeanie Posted March 19, 2018 Posted March 19, 2018 Cool post 29. I don't watch enough college football. The only one I can make sense of is Rosen. Everybody else looks terrible to me because the style of offense they are playing is so different. What I mean is there is no normal drop back and I can't make sense of the footwork or if there is any, and they don't really read progressions in the same way and so on. It is too unfamiliar to me. So I will just go by what everybody else says! Will you be adding Darnold in here? 1
BadLandsMeanie Posted March 19, 2018 Posted March 19, 2018 I looked up Darnold on my own. Snap evaluation is: I didn't see him take a single snap from under center. Eeeeek. Besides that, he is a big man that moves like a smaller man. Evasive and speedy. Great arm. I think the Bills will move to 2 whatever it takes and get him if the Browns don't take him at 1. Again that is just my quick impression though not preaching it as Gospel. 1
Big Blitz Posted March 19, 2018 Posted March 19, 2018 I want to know what "franchise QB" glasses y'all are wearing when you watch Rosen. I see plenty of bad throws and bad decisions. Allen and Rudolph are growing on me.
Buddo Posted March 19, 2018 Posted March 19, 2018 Well, what I saw from Rudolph, was his attempts to force throws into ridiculous coverage, and I was far from impressed. Some seriously bad decision making at times. He's also pretty static, and I'd say he has an awful lot to learn about moving around in the pocket, along with being under center. There were some really nice throws in amongst it, and he's obviously got arm enough, but there are some large caveats amongst his overall play. You pretty much knew where he was going, just about every time he threw, as he locked on to his receivers. But that's not uncommon with the type of offences being run in colleges. I'd just like to see some disguise from him. Allen's arm is outrageous, but so is his inaccuracy. He also seems to think he can throw into the tightest of windows. I was moderately impressed with his mobility, and the fact that he was taking care of the football, when he ran. There was also one particular moment that I really liked, which was the 'dummy' shovel pass, that let him run for the 1st down. If he did but know it, it's a classic rugby move. I thought he showed some good sense in getting rid of the football at times, and generally some pocket awareness, or at least awareness of when the rush was coming. I wouldn't take either of them in the 1st round, as I don't think either is able to start now. Rudolph needs a year, and Allen 2. If I could pick them where I wanted, and was able to give them the time I think they need to develop, I'd probably take Allen ahead of Rudolph, as he has a seriously high ceiling, but neither would be in the 1st round. I do think that both of them could start for teams given the right coaching, system and time - and be successful. I'll get around to looking at some of the others later. Fwiw, aside from the above clips, I've watched some 'highlight' stuff on both previously. 1
mjt328 Posted March 19, 2018 Posted March 19, 2018 6 hours ago, Big Blitz said: I want to know what "franchise QB" glasses y'all are wearing when you watch Rosen. I see plenty of bad throws and bad decisions. Allen and Rudolph are growing on me. The thing to remember when evaluating prospects... none of them are a finished product and all of them are going to have flaws. The question is, what flaws are going to be the easiest to correct and which ones are going to be more difficult? A great example is Sam Darnold. In my opinion, Darnold is a fantastic prospect and checks every box that you are looking for in an NFL quarterback. His big weakness is poor decision-making. That's because he's a gunslinger at heart, and constantly forces throws into heavy coverage. At the NFL, this will equal lots of turnovers if not corrected. But Darnold also shows great ability to quickly scan through his progressions and make fast/accurate throws. Which means that a good coaching staff should have an easier time teaching him to avoid the really bad decisions. Compare that to a prospect like Josh Allen. Allen has all the physical tools in the world. But his passes are wildly inaccurate. And despite having great mobility, Allen also has terrible pocket presence and lacks a feel for the pass rush. When pressure hits, his composure totally breaks down. The only way Allen becomes a successful QB at the next level is by having his game completely remade, from the ground-up. That's a pretty tall order. 2
billsfan1959 Posted March 19, 2018 Posted March 19, 2018 10 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: Rudolph I expected nothing here. But there is something... i notice his lower body doesn’t do much when he throws. But his deep ball is very good if not exceptional. Despite him being considered a lower tier prospect, he throws with anticipation and seems to have some shred of pocket presence. made poor decisions in crunch time. I see Flacco ish tendencies? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATT1uImROIA&sns=em 2 I know that I am in the minority here; however, while I would prefer Darnold or Rosen, I really wouldn't mind if the Bills kept all of their picks and took Rudolph later in the first round. What I see in the clip you provided, as well as other videos I have watched: - While he does not have exceptional arm strength, he does throw one of the better deep balls of the QBs in this draft - He also has enough arm strength to make all the throws he would need to make at the NFL level - He is not terribly mobile; however, he has pretty good pocket awareness, moves well within the pocket, and keeps his eyes downfield - Good accuracy, good anticipation, and goes through his reads pretty well - Also, I would disagree with the poor decisions in crunch time. From the videos I have watched, I think his decision-making abilities under pressure are in the top 3 of QBs in this draft 1 1
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted March 19, 2018 Author Posted March 19, 2018 (edited) 19 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said: I know that I am in the minority here; however, while I would prefer Darnold or Rosen, I really wouldn't mind if the Bills kept all of their picks and took Rudolph later in the first round. What I see in the clip you provided, as well as other videos I have watched: - While he does not have exceptional arm strength, he does throw one of the better deep balls of the QBs in this draft - He also has enough arm strength to make all the throws he would need to make at the NFL level - He is not terribly mobile; however, he has pretty good pocket awareness, moves well within the pocket, and keeps his eyes downfield - Good accuracy, good anticipation, and goes through his reads pretty well - Also, I would disagree with the poor decisions in crunch time. From the videos I have watched, I think his decision-making abilities under pressure are in the top 3 of QBs in this draft May have been too harsh with poor decisions in crunch time- after all Tyrod didn’t take risks in crunch time and it drove us all crazy. It was his most egregious flaw. I dont get the Rudolf hatred- there is something there to work with. 44 minutes ago, mjt328 said: The thing to remember when evaluating prospects... none of them are a finished product and all of them are going to have flaws. The question is, what flaws are going to be the easiest to correct and which ones are going to be more difficult? A great example is Sam Darnold. In my opinion, Darnold is a fantastic prospect and checks every box that you are looking for in an NFL quarterback. His big weakness is poor decision-making. That's because he's a gunslinger at heart, and constantly forces throws into heavy coverage. At the NFL, this will equal lots of turnovers if not corrected. But Darnold also shows great ability to quickly scan through his progressions and make fast/accurate throws. Which means that a good coaching staff should have an easier time teaching him to avoid the really bad decisions. Compare that to a prospect like Josh Allen. Allen has all the physical tools in the world. But his passes are wildly inaccurate. And despite having great mobility, Allen also has terrible pocket presence and lacks a feel for the pass rush. When pressure hits, his composure totally breaks down. The only way Allen becomes a successful QB at the next level is by having his game completely remade, from the ground-up. That's a pretty tall order. Allen’s inaccuracy stands out to me... I still say Elway will not be able to resist him at 5 as long as he can rationalize the flaws are fixable how can he not see himself with that arm. Edited March 19, 2018 by Over 29 years of fanhood
GunnerBill Posted March 19, 2018 Posted March 19, 2018 I am generally in the pro-Rudolph camp compared to most of TBD.... but I think you are right on the crunch time thing 29..... the Bedlam game was an absolute case in point. I thought he outplayed Baker Mayfield for 3 and a half quarters of the football game.... but when the game was on the line in the final half a quarter - Mayfield raised his game and Rudolph was unable to. It is a legit concern that you are right to identify. The Texas game is the other one that sticks out in my mind from 2017 as where he made some poor decisions with the game on the line at the end.... even though Ok St got out with the W.
JinxedBill1 Posted March 19, 2018 Posted March 19, 2018 7 hours ago, BadLandsMeanie said: I looked up Darnold on my own. Snap evaluation is: I didn't see him take a single snap from under center. Eeeeek. Besides that, he is a big man that moves like a smaller man. Evasive and speedy. Great arm. I think the Bills will move to 2 whatever it takes and get him if the Browns don't take him at 1. Again that is just my quick impression though not preaching it as Gospel. This is my thought as well. I think the Browns first pick sets off the phones. They take Darnold @1 then I don't see us trading up. And this is coming from someone who wants Rosen.
billsfan1959 Posted March 19, 2018 Posted March 19, 2018 3 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: May have been too harsh with poor decisions in crunch time- after all Tyrod didn’t take risks in crunch time and it drove us all crazy. It was his most egregious flaw. I dont get the Rudolf hatred- there is something there to work with. I agree. I am really torn in this draft. I really like Rosen and Darnold; however, I am wondering if the difference between them and the next 3-4 QBs is worth the draft capital the team would need to give up to get either one. Part of me feels that the team has put itself in position to draft so many potentially good players in this draft while also having the potential to get additional pieces in free agency and the draft next year. So, would they be better off going with someone like Rudolph (Faulk, Lauletta, White) and build a championship caliber team around him over the next two years? 1
FeelingOnYouboty Posted March 19, 2018 Posted March 19, 2018 If you have a great arm and are accurate to all areas of the field there's a great chance you're going to be NFL starter for a while. Anyone wanna guess which two QB's do that better than anyone else in this Draft? 1
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted March 19, 2018 Author Posted March 19, 2018 (edited) 42 minutes ago, FeelingOnYouboty said: If you have a great arm and are accurate to all areas of the field there's a great chance you're going to be NFL starter for a while. Anyone wanna guess which two QB's do that better than anyone else in this Draft? Unfortunately “great arm” is subjective and “accurate to all areas” is influenced by external factors thus nobody quite has mapped college level measurables to pro football success. there are only one or two prospects every 5-10 years that are concensus accurate & great arms. Darnold looks to be the best prospect since luck by many accounts, and the rest of the field is distant. Edited March 19, 2018 by Over 29 years of fanhood
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