Inigo Montoya Posted March 19, 2018 Posted March 19, 2018 3 minutes ago, Green Lightning said: IM, I do understand the argument, but there's no quarterback in sight. Next year's crop looks bleak. So I'm looking at at least two seasons of backup quarterback Hell or hoping beyond all hope that McCarron has more ceiling that nobody else has seen. It's just not a good place to be. So I think Beane has got to come out of this draft with some pick to groom and hope it turns out like Dak Prescott or Russell Wilson I am not a student of the college game and have no idea who the QBs are going to be coming out next year. There just always seem to be a couple every year that everyone fawns over. I agree with you 100%, I think Beane should pick up another QB in this draft outside of the first round. I think the Bills need to keep picking up QBs until they find their guy. I just think that the cost of moving up into striking range this year is too high. It's just Murphy's Law with the way the board is stacked and team's needs this year. Beane made the moves he could to position the Bills to make a play. I heard the Colt's GM in an interview say that they had heard from other teams (I assume the Bills were one of them) and that ultimately the Colts just wanted to stay in the top 10 of the draft. Not much Beane could do about that. McBeane can take our two 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round picks and hopefully put four-five new long term starters on the field for us. I have been really impressed with McBeane's personnel evaluation and trust them to find good players. Maybe they can trade back during the draft and pick up more ammo for next year's draft too. I am just not in favor of drafting a QB this year at all costs. I don't want a Ricky Williams deal for the Bills.
Bring it Posted March 19, 2018 Posted March 19, 2018 Sounds like josh Allen to me. All except the accuracy. But hey give him some time behind McCarron and see what happens. He has a howitzer for a right arm! And he has the mobility in the pocket.
thunderingsquid Posted March 19, 2018 Posted March 19, 2018 When he says things like sandlot and audible it makes me think Mayfield.
beerme1 Posted March 19, 2018 Posted March 19, 2018 20 hours ago, Bring it said: All except the accuracy. But hey give him some time behind McCarron and see what happens. He has a howitzer for a right arm! And he has the mobility in the pocket. Geno Smith!
swnybillsfan Posted March 20, 2018 Posted March 20, 2018 On 3/18/2018 at 5:42 PM, Inigo Montoya said: McCarron’s career accuracy 66.9% Mayfield 2017 70.5% Rosen 2017 62.6% Darnold 2017 63.1% Allen 2017 56.1% Jackson 2017 59.1% Doesn’t look like McCarron’s accuracy is an issue. As for arm strength, other than Allen whose arm strength is in a league of its own, McCarron’s is similar to all the others. out of curiosity, where does rudolph fall on this list?
Inigo Montoya Posted March 20, 2018 Posted March 20, 2018 Rudolph completion percentage is 63.2. Not too shabby. 18 minutes ago, swnybillsfan said: out of curiosity, where does rudolph fall on this list?
DCOrange Posted March 20, 2018 Posted March 20, 2018 Based on those comments, I'd guess we're skipping a QB this year since the perfect prospect doesn't exist in this year's draft. Seriously though, you could make an argument for any of them based on this with the exception of maybe Mayfield due to the height comments, but we don't know which traits he actually prioritizes. Joe Buscaglia got the impression that his top priorities are: 1. Pocket Presence 2. Arm Strength 3. Accuracy I'd guess Allen is very high on Beane's list based on the context we have to go from.
swnybillsfan Posted March 20, 2018 Posted March 20, 2018 8 hours ago, DCOrange said: Based on those comments, I'd guess we're skipping a QB this year since the perfect prospect doesn't exist in this year's draft. Seriously though, you could make an argument for any of them based on this with the exception of maybe Mayfield due to the height comments, but we don't know which traits he actually prioritizes. Joe Buscaglia got the impression that his top priorities are: 1. Pocket Presence 2. Arm Strength 3. Accuracy I'd guess Allen is very high on Beane's list based on the context we have to go from. 3b. ball placement seems like every year there is a new buzzword or catchphrase. this time around, i am gonna go with ball placement. which qb is best at putting the ball in a place where the receiver is able to catch the ball on the run. getting the ball without having to break stride is huge, yards after the catch are something, if i recall correctly, we were horrible at last year. who of these qbs would rank highly in this facet of the game?
GunnerBill Posted March 20, 2018 Posted March 20, 2018 On 3/18/2018 at 9:45 PM, MrEpsYtown said: So basically says he wants a guy who is tall, has arm strength (because it can't be improved much), has some experience under center, goes through progressions, doesn't want a running quarterback because they take a beating (unless they are special athlete ala Jackson). If you take his words as his gospel, you eliminate: Mayfield-height, spread, Jackson-accuracy in pocket, Allen - accuracy, Rudolph - arm strength, spread. It's really just Darnold and Rosen. In the next tier the closest thing is probably Mike White. Falk, Laluetta have arm strength issues and things of that nature. White played under center, read full field progressions and has a big arm. Falk is an air-raid spread system too. If they are limiting themselves to people who have played in pro-style offense then your assessment of who is in the mix is right - but they would be incredibly foolish to do so in my opinion. It is such outdated, old school thinking.
BigBuff423 Posted March 20, 2018 Posted March 20, 2018 On 3/18/2018 at 4:21 PM, Reed83HOF said: I see this debated in so many threads below is what Beane has said he looks for in QBs (this info is from May 2017). What QBs available in tier 1 and 2 check these boxes? From Article 1 To be in this league, whether its Tyrod or name the quarterback, you have to make (1) plays consistently from the pocket. The quarterbacks that are succeeding year after year after year consistently make plays from the pocket. That's what, whoever the franchise quarterback is going to be, that's what he'll have to do." "Obviously, you draw them up, from a physical standpoint, they look like Cam (Newton)," Beane said. "But how many are there like that? (2) You want a guy, the stature, the height, you know, they're standing over, they're not worried about linemen in their face. It gives them the vision and all that. Arm strength. But the one thing that people I think miss a little bit when they're watching, you know, (3) the college game schematically has just been so dummied down that these guys know before the ball's snapped right where they're going. There's no progressions. There's no audibiling. That's the challenge that the college guys have, and it's brutal. And these quarterbacks that are getting drafted high that have never taken a snap from center, have never called an audible. That's tough. (4) The intangibles are the other thing that you can't necessarily measure from the film. I can turn on the film and watch some things. You obviously want to see quarterbacks live, but what's this guy's makeup? What's his leadership? Do guys rally behind him? http://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2017/07/buffalo_bills_gm_brandon_beane_describes_what_he_looks_for_in_franchise_quarterb.html From Article 2 You know, you love arm strength. You can't teach arm strength. You can probably improve it a little bit... (5) the accuracy is very important. You know, the guys are not as open in the pros as they are in college, and so, it will show if you've got a guy that's inaccurate from the pocket. You have to have the leadership qualities. You've got to get guys to follow you. It is a quarterback league, and if you don't have the leadership in the other guys, that's 11 guys on the field -- if they're not following you, it just doesn't work. I've seen quarterbacks that have arm talent. We've known the names in this league -- I'm not going to call them out -- that have all the talent in the world and they've been first-round picks.... but they aren't leaders. You've got to start there. You want to be able to have a passer that can throw from the pocket. It's good to be mobile... we love that. And obviously, Tyrod brings that, and I think Peterman has some things like that. You know, all these guys have some different qualities... there's not one thing, but, at the end of the day, quarterbacks in the NFL must be able to throw from the pocket. Brandon Beane: Yeah, I mean, calculated risk... whatever you want to call it. There are some times when they are going to have to thread the needle. It's third and long, and it's late in the game, and we've got to get this play, and they're going to put a spy on the quarterback or something like that... he's got to stand in there, trust his reads, trust his progressions... and sling it and make the throw. You have to do that. In college, you see a lot of running quarterbacks that can just make a play with their own. Everything breaks down and it becomes sandlot football, and you do see some plays in the NFL, but the speed is so different here. It takes a special player to do it, and to do it often... and again, the pounding that you take. We saw that in Carolina last year. Cam took more hits last year than he had in the previous years, so, it's a tough league. And again, I'll go back to it: You have to be able to throw from the pocket. https://www.wkbw.com/sports/bills/what-does-buffalo-bills-gm-brandon-beane-want-at-qb-you-have-to-be-able-to-throw-from-the-pocket What's interesting to me are a couple things: Beane is consistent about what he wants and knows definitively what those characteristics are, he doesn't make excuses for a type of player simply because he likes the "style"; additionally, only ONE of the QBs in this Draft meet all the criteria that Beane mentioned: Darnold. I'm not a Darnold fan especially, but here are the knocks that can be inferred or perceived on the other QBs based on those quotes, from highlighted portion top to bottom: 1. Jackson - he greatly improved in 2017 but he didn't do it "consistently" over his college career 2. Mayfield - self-explanatory 3. Rudolph (and others) 4. Rosen 5. Allen To one of the more explained positive traits Beane mentioned, Darnold has done - albeit inconsistently - but he's done it: "...here are some times when they are going to have to thread the needle. It's third and long, and it's late in the game, and we've got to get this play, and they're going to put a spy on the quarterback or something like that... he's got to stand in there, trust his reads, trust his progressions... and sling it and make the throw. You have to do that." I believe, and I could be mistaken so I'm not going to find the quote or piece but, Beane has said he doesn't put much weight on INTs in terms of knocking guy down the board for them, if they're done in situations that are of the "calculated risk" (quoted above) category....in other words, he doesn't want dumb INTs when there's no reason for them but when a QB takes a "calculated risk" to make the the throw and does it fairly well but the Defense simply makes a play, it doesn't drastically change Beane's opinion as opposed to completely missing a receiver or throwing into coverage when another guy is open and creating the turnover. The negatives mentioned and the one positive trait Beane seemed to be more verbose with in his explanation, leads me to think if Beane could have the 1st overall pick, he'd pick Darnold.
FeelingOnYouboty Posted March 20, 2018 Posted March 20, 2018 On 3/18/2018 at 4:21 PM, Reed83HOF said: I see this debated in so many threads below is what Beane has said he looks for in QBs (this info is from May 2017). What QBs available in tier 1 and 2 check these boxes? From Article 1 To be in this league, whether its Tyrod or name the quarterback, you have to make plays consistently from the pocket. The quarterbacks that are succeeding year after year after year consistently make plays from the pocket. That's what, whoever the franchise quarterback is going to be, that's what he'll have to do." "Obviously, you draw them up, from a physical standpoint, they look like Cam (Newton)," Beane said. "But how many are there like that? You want a guy, the stature, the height, you know, they're standing over, they're not worried about linemen in their face. It gives them the vision and all that. Arm strength. But the one thing that people I think miss a little bit when they're watching, you know, the college game schematically has just been so dummied down that these guys know before the ball's snapped right where they're going. There's no progressions. There's no audibiling. That's the challenge that the college guys have, and it's brutal. And these quarterbacks that are getting drafted high that have never taken a snap from center, have never called an audible. That's tough. The intangibles are the other thing that you can't necessarily measure from the film. I can turn on the film and watch some things. You obviously want to see quarterbacks live, but what's this guy's makeup? What's his leadership? Do guys rally behind him? http://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2017/07/buffalo_bills_gm_brandon_beane_describes_what_he_looks_for_in_franchise_quarterb.html From Article 2 You know, you love arm strength. You can't teach arm strength. You can probably improve it a little bit... the accuracy is very important. You know, the guys are not as open in the pros as they are in college, and so, it will show if you've got a guy that's inaccurate from the pocket. You have to have the leadership qualities. You've got to get guys to follow you. It is a quarterback league, and if you don't have the leadership in the other guys, that's 11 guys on the field -- if they're not following you, it just doesn't work. I've seen quarterbacks that have arm talent. We've known the names in this league -- I'm not going to call them out -- that have all the talent in the world and they've been first-round picks.... but they aren't leaders. You've got to start there. You want to be able to have a passer that can throw from the pocket. It's good to be mobile... we love that. And obviously, Tyrod brings that, and I think Peterman has some things like that. You know, all these guys have some different qualities... there's not one thing, but, at the end of the day, quarterbacks in the NFL must be able to throw from the pocket. Brandon Beane: Yeah, I mean, calculated risk... whatever you want to call it. There are some times when they are going to have to thread the needle. It's third and long, and it's late in the game, and we've got to get this play, and they're going to put a spy on the quarterback or something like that... he's got to stand in there, trust his reads, trust his progressions... and sling it and make the throw. You have to do that. In college, you see a lot of running quarterbacks that can just make a play with their own. Everything breaks down and it becomes sandlot football, and you do see some plays in the NFL, but the speed is so different here. It takes a special player to do it, and to do it often... and again, the pounding that you take. We saw that in Carolina last year. Cam took more hits last year than he had in the previous years, so, it's a tough league. And again, I'll go back to it: You have to be able to throw from the pocket. https://www.wkbw.com/sports/bills/what-does-buffalo-bills-gm-brandon-beane-want-at-qb-you-have-to-be-able-to-throw-from-the-pocket This describes only two QB's and it's pretty obvious.
JohnC Posted March 20, 2018 Posted March 20, 2018 (edited) On 3/18/2018 at 4:50 PM, K-9 said: In other words, Rosen. I get the feeling he already knows the Giants are gonna take Rosen after the Browns take Darnold and the rest of the prospects are so tightly rated it’s makes little sense for him to trade the farm when at least one of those prospects will fall. I think he moves into the top 10 at best. Chances are, somebody will be there at 12 even. I agree with you that the qb he wants to target is Rosen. He fits all the boxes with the exception of maybe durability. If I had to guess his fallback position is to use his second first round pick for Rudolph. If he were to gamble he might use his chips on Allen who would match his profile with the exception of accuracy. If I had to make a prediction right now I believe that the Giants would be open to a deal that would give them an infusion of a lot of talent. Edited March 20, 2018 by JohnC
K-9 Posted March 20, 2018 Posted March 20, 2018 1 hour ago, JohnC said: I agree with you that the qb he wants to target is Rosen. He fits all the boxes with the exception of maybe durability. If I had to guess his fallback position is to use his second first round pick for Rudolph. If he were to gamble he might use his chips on Allen who would match his profile with the exception of accuracy. If I had to make a prediction right now I believe that the Giants would be open to a deal that would give them an infusion of a lot of talent. Well, in a draft projected to produce 70 starters in the league I agree, it's a great opportunity to infuse a roster with good, young talent. I just think the Giants are missing an opportunity to lock up the most important position for the next 10 years after Manning hangs 'em up.
JohnC Posted March 20, 2018 Posted March 20, 2018 2 hours ago, K-9 said: Well, in a draft projected to produce 70 starters in the league I agree, it's a great opportunity to infuse a roster with good, young talent. I just think the Giants are missing an opportunity to lock up the most important position for the next 10 years after Manning hangs 'em up. You and I are in accord on what the Giants should do. As far as the Bills go if they have no recourse other than to stand pat and add a bulk of talent to the roster that in itself isn't a bad situation to be in. Sometimes the qb you consider to be a second-tier prospect can turn out to be a very good player. However this regime responds I have a lot of confidence that they will do it smartly and act strategically.
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