Reed83HOF Posted March 18, 2018 Posted March 18, 2018 2 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: Rams exited the playoffs immediately and the eagles QB was sidelined since 12/11. Try again This is a very poor take
Young34 Posted March 18, 2018 Posted March 18, 2018 2 hours ago, BuffaloBill said: The Rams and Eagles say otherwise. You get your QB when you can. With that said this is a deep QB class and who knows what can happen. You literally just cherry picked two instances. Statistics, on the other hand, show that there are way more misses than hits in the 1st round for QB's. "For every successful first-round quarterback pick in recent years, there are almost twice as many failures. A conclusion can be drawn with 19 of the first-round picks. Only seven, or 36.8 percent, arguably could be considered a success." https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/agents-take-recent-draft-history-shows-first-round-qbs-are-more-likely-to-fail/
Boatdrinks Posted March 18, 2018 Posted March 18, 2018 The Jets overpaid , but it doesn't mean they will have a terrible roster. Their FO and coach are on thin ice, it's not surprising they did everything in their power to get a QB. They were trading from a stronger position than their division rival Bills, and the Bills intent to move up was the worst kept secret in the NFL. It was either pay the ransom or the Bills would jump ahead of them at 3, leaving the Jets high and dry. Their FO had no choice, theyd be fired if they don't get a QB just as easily as if the pick doesn't pan out. The Bills don't have a high pick to offer in a pickswap situation, so another team beating them out was always a huge possibility. They have other options, but the cost just went up more. IF they can find a willing trade partner, and that's a big if right now. It's not as easy as just throwing a few more picks on the pile. Teams don't like risk, so a move down of less draft spots will always be more attractive to them.
CuddyDark Posted March 18, 2018 Posted March 18, 2018 1 hour ago, WideRightRevenge said: Wentz College Stats (remember d2) .. funny as I have been pouring over the same stats from the top 6 in this draft ... but with all the Wentz commentary in this thread ... I went back and grabbed his ... these numbers don't blow you away. 4 years declining completion percentage ... but he obviously panned out ... my point is I was down on Allen for below .. but maybe he just needs to be put in the right system ... ala Wentz with Doug "the QB" whisperer Peterson ... problem is ... not sure Daboll or McD is that person. Josh Allen College Stats Passing Year School Conf Class Pos G Cmp Att Pct Yds Y/A AY/A TD Int Rate 2015 Wyoming MWC SO QB 2 4 6 66.7 51 8.5 8.5 0 0 138.1 *2016 Wyoming MWC SO QB 14 209 373 56.0 3203 8.6 8.3 28 15 144.9 *2017 Wyoming MWC JR QB 11 152 270 56.3 1812 6.7 6.9 16 6 127.8 Carson Wentz College Stats Passing Year School Conf Class Pos G Cmp Att Pct Yds Y/A AY/A TD Int Rate 2012 North Dakota State MVC FR QB 8 12 16 75.0 144 9.0 11.5 2 0 191.9 2013 North Dakota State MVC SO QB 11 22 30 73.3 209 7.0 7.6 1 0 142.9 2014 North Dakota State MVC JR QB 16 228 358 63.7 3111 8.7 8.8 25 10 154.1 2015 North Dakota State MVC SR QB 7 130 208 62.5 1651 7.9 8.7 17 4 152.3 QBs have a decline in completion percentage as they get more attempts. The problem with Allen is even with less attempts he has a horrible completion percentage.
Pete Posted March 18, 2018 Posted March 18, 2018 (edited) Let's examine what the Jets have done- 2nd round pick Hackenberg 16 4th round pick Petty 15 2nd round pick Geno 13 1st pick 2009 Sanchez 5th overall and now they just traded three #2s to move up 3 spots Let the Jets keep being fools. That is one less team to worry about. Stack this roster with the picks, and let the QB come to you. And once again to hammer home my point about BPA and not getting robbed trading up- these are the QB'S drafted in the 1st round the past decade. With a few exceptions, what a bunch of ****! 2016: 1. Jared Goff, California, Rams 2. Carson Wentz, North Dakota State, Eagles 26. Paxton Lynch, Memphis, Broncos ___ 2015: 1. Jameis Winston, Florida State, Buccaneers 2. Marcus Mariota, Oregon, Titans ___ 2014: 3. Blake Bortles, Central Florida, Jaguars 22. Johnny Manziel, Texas A&M, Browns 32. Teddy Bridgewater, Louisville, Vikings ___ 2013: 16. EJ Manuel, Florida State, Bills ___ 2012: 1. Andrew Luck, Stanford, Colts 2. Robert Griffin III, Baylor, Redskins 8. Ryan Tannehill, Texas A&M, Dolphins 22. Brandon Weeden, Oklahoma State, Browns ___ 2011: 1. Cam Newton, Auburn, Panthers 8. Jake Locker, Washington, Titans 10. Blaine Gabbert, Missouri, Jaguars 12. Christian Ponder, Florida State, Vikings ___ 2010: 1. Sam Bradford, Oklahoma, Rams 25. Tim Tebow, Florida, Broncos ___ 2009: 1. Matthew Stafford, Georgia, Lions 5. Mark Sanchez, USC, Jets 17. Josh Freeman, Kansas State, Buccaneers ___ 2008: 3. Matt Ryan, Boston College, Falcons 18. Joe Flacco, Delaware, Ravens ___ 2007: 1. JaMarcus Russell, LSU, Raiders 22. Brady Quinn, Notre Dame, Browns ___ 2006: 3. Vince Young, Texas, Titans 10. Matt Leinart, USC, Cardinals 11. Jay Cutler, Vanderbilt, Broncos ___ 2005: 1. Alex Smith, Utah, 49ers 24. Aaron Rodgers, Cal, Packers 25. Jason Campbell, Auburn, Redskins ___ 2004: 1. Eli Manning, Mississippi, Chargers 4. Philip Rivers, North Carolina State, Giants 11. Ben Roethlisberger, Miami (Ohio), Steelers 22. J.P. Losman, Tulane, Bills ___ 2003: 1. Carson Palmer, USC, Bengals 7. Byron Leftwich, Marshall, Jaguars 19. Kyle Boller, Cal, Ravens 22. Rex Grossman, Florida, Bears ___ 2002: 1. David Carr, Fresno State, Texans 3. Joey Harrington, Oregon, Lions 32. Patrick Ramsey, Tulane, Redskins ___ 2001: 1. Michael Vick, Virginia Tech, Falcons ___ 2000: 18. Chad Pennington, Marshall, Jets Edited March 18, 2018 by Pete 2
RochesterRob Posted March 18, 2018 Posted March 18, 2018 2 hours ago, BuffaloBill said: The Rams and Eagles say otherwise. You get your QB when you can. With that said this is a deep QB class and who knows what can happen. There was some team building in each case with the Eagles far along when they did make their move. We have a lot of building yet to do.
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted March 18, 2018 Posted March 18, 2018 3 hours ago, RPbillsfan said: The majority of posters seem to want to employ a strategy of trading most of our picks for the right to draft "a franchise QB". The Jets just made a move that almost ensures additional years of losing football with a young QB playing short handed with a weak roster and all the expectations in the world. No offensive weapons to use, poor offensive line, holes all over the front 7 on defense. The Bills are now in a position to do the opposite, draft to fill the roster with young cost-controlled players to add to the talent base they have. Six picks in the first 96. Chance to get QB, LB, CB, DT, OL and WR. Why would you choose the pathway the Jets are taking which pretty much ensures competition with the Dolphins for last place in the AFC East. Love to read your thoughts on this. ...quite elementary my dear Watson.....pick you QB that comes with a warranty, money back guarantee and full refund of ALL draft capital expended to get 'em if he busts.....oh wait..... 1
billsredneck1 Posted March 18, 2018 Posted March 18, 2018 1 hour ago, WideRightRevenge said: Dead nuts on ... agree with this analogy in terms of the QB depth .. don't mortgage the farm i agree also although i'd rather put rudolph a bit ahead of tannehil because he had a ton more college experience and the johnny unitas award.
Paul Costa Posted March 18, 2018 Posted March 18, 2018 3 hours ago, RPbillsfan said: The majority of posters seem to want to employ a strategy of trading most of our picks for the right to draft "a franchise QB". The Jets just made a move that almost ensures additional years of losing football with a young QB playing short handed with a weak roster and all the expectations in the world. No offensive weapons to use, poor offensive line, holes all over the front 7 on defense. The Bills are now in a position to do the opposite, draft to fill the roster with young cost-controlled players to add to the talent base they have. Six picks in the first 96. Chance to get QB, LB, CB, DT, OL and WR. Why would you choose the pathway the Jets are taking which pretty much ensures competition with the Dolphins for last place in the AFC East. Love to read your thoughts on this. This?
mannc Posted March 18, 2018 Posted March 18, 2018 3 hours ago, BuffaloBill said: The Rams and Eagles say otherwise. You get your QB when you can. With that said this is a deep QB class and who knows what can happen. The Eagles were able to turn around and get back the picks they gave up by trading Bradford to the desperate Vikings. Not a good comparison. Plus, Foles won them the Lombardi, not Wentz. And the Rams really haven’t done much, despite having a very talented roster.
RochesterRob Posted March 18, 2018 Posted March 18, 2018 1 hour ago, NewDayBills said: The Bills didn't beat up on the Dolphins in the 90s because Kelly was a better QB than Marino. We beat up on the Dolphins because we had the superior team. We have the opportunity to build a powerhouse. We could walk away with an elite LB, DT, C and add a speedy WR plus depth at OT and CB. The Jets will have the better QB for sure, but we will have the better team 10x over. Spot on. I can't think of a Dolphins back that was on par with Kenny Davis never mind Thurman Thomas during those times. 2 hours ago, Wayne Arnold said: Watch Mike White be the best quarterback to come out of this draft. That would be funny. Especially if we stay put at 12 and 22 and keep our extra 2nd and 3rd. I would not mind White as a guy that will sit the coming season versus expecting to start at some point in September. 1
Pete Posted March 18, 2018 Posted March 18, 2018 Good QB's are found throughout the draft. To think that a QB will be better because we drafted him in a higher draft slot. That is akin to thinking "this costs more, so it must be better" And when we are winning by 4 in a playoff game, and it is 4th and 2 for opponent with 1:00 left- it sure would be nice to have a stud LB in there to help preserve victory. Allen/Darnold/Rosen/Mayfield can't help you there 3
RochesterRob Posted March 18, 2018 Posted March 18, 2018 3 hours ago, Bangarang said: I don’t think the Jets or their fans will care too long about what they gave up if it means they have a legit franchise QB for the next 10-15 years. In the modern era it is fairly uncommon to hang onto a QB for 10-15 years. I don't think that even if a QB's health and production never waivers that most teams can expect to hold a QB that long. Kelly stayed because the area grew on him but we can not count on that happening on a regular basis. There are too many lures such as big market teams, teams that may be more SB ready, preferred climate and weather, etc.. to know we have a guy locked in that long. I hate to say it as a person from WNY but the most likely scenario is we keep the guy for his rookie deal and maybe a franchise tag. After that it is just good luck versus something to be expected.
JohnnyK Posted March 18, 2018 Posted March 18, 2018 3 hours ago, N.Y. Orangeman said: This really isn't that difficult... The top 3 QBs this year are not in the can't miss class, its not like other years IMO! Look at 1983 and how the QBs ended up that is how this year seems to me! it will be a great draft and exciting year of 20/20 hind-sight and talked about for years to come lets hope the Bills get it right
DrDawkinstein Posted March 18, 2018 Posted March 18, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, RPbillsfan said: The majority of posters seem to want to employ a strategy of trading most of our picks for the right to draft "a franchise QB". The Jets just made a move that almost ensures additional years of losing football with a young QB playing short handed with a weak roster and all the expectations in the world. No offensive weapons to use, poor offensive line, holes all over the front 7 on defense. The Bills are now in a position to do the opposite, draft to fill the roster with young cost-controlled players to add to the talent base they have. Six picks in the first 96. Chance to get QB, LB, CB, DT, OL and WR. Why would you choose the pathway the Jets are taking which pretty much ensures competition with the Dolphins for last place in the AFC East. Love to read your thoughts on this. Very simple: You could have all-pros at all the bolded positions, and it still doesnt matter if you dont have a Franchise QB. This is exactly what the Bills have proven over the last 20 year experiment. 14 minutes ago, RochesterRob said: In the modern era it is fairly uncommon to hang onto a QB for 10-15 years. I don't think that even if a QB's health and production never waivers that most teams can expect to hold a QB that long. Kelly stayed because the area grew on him but we can not count on that happening on a regular basis. There are too many lures such as big market teams, teams that may be more SB ready, preferred climate and weather, etc.. to know we have a guy locked in that long. I hate to say it as a person from WNY but the most likely scenario is we keep the guy for his rookie deal and maybe a franchise tag. After that it is just good luck versus something to be expected. Matt Ryan, Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, Philip Rivers, Ben Rothlisberger, Eli Manning... All are the Franchise QBs from 10-15 years ago. All are with their long time teams. Only Brees moved, ONCE, and that was the team decision. All the more recent guys like Newton, Wilson, Wentz, etc will all re-sign with their teams. The only one to really leave has been Cousins, and that is because the Redskins FO will screw up anything. When you have a Franchise QB, they stay on the roster. Edited March 18, 2018 by DrDawkinstein
Lurker Posted March 18, 2018 Posted March 18, 2018 4 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: Very simple: You could have all-pros at all the bolded positions, and it still doesnt matter if you dont have a Franchise QB. This is exactly what the Bills have proven over the last 20 year experiment. And yet, name a team with a great QB and mediocre supporting cast that has done anything either. Manning got only one ring in Indy because he had a meh supporting cast and meh coaching. You could almost say his career was wasted . And none of the QBs in this class are anywhere near his talent...
Pete Posted March 18, 2018 Posted March 18, 2018 13 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: Very simple: You could have all-pros at all the bolded positions, and it still doesnt matter if you dont have a Franchise QB. Trent Dilfer, Doug Williams, Jim McMahon, Jeff Hostleter, Brad Johnson all strongly disagree
BillsFan4 Posted March 18, 2018 Posted March 18, 2018 As I said in another thread, whether we trade up or not Beane and mcdermott have us in a great position to take a gamble on a QB high in the draft this year. Having two 1sts, 2nds, 3rds and 5ths makes it a lot easier to take a shot on a QB in the 1st. Instead of trading up, What if the plan plan is to draft 2 QBs this year to increase their odds of hitting on one? This is comsidered a very deep QB draft. Maybe they take 1 in the 1st, and another in the 3rd? (or something like that). Just a thought... (I doubt it though, since I think they still like Peterman a lot and it would be hard to develop 3 young QBs all at once).
Reed83HOF Posted March 18, 2018 Posted March 18, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Pete said: Let's examine what the Jets have done- 2nd round pick Hackenberg 16 4th round pick Petty 15 2nd round pick Geno 13 1st pick 2009 Sanchez 5th overall and now they just traded three #2s to move up 3 spots Let the Jets keep being fools. That is one less team to worry about. Stack this roster with the picks, and let the QB come to you. And once again to hammer home my point about BPA and not getting robbed trading up- these are the QB'S drafted in the 1st round the past decade. With a few exceptions, what a bunch of ****! 2016: 1. Jared Goff, California, Rams 2. Carson Wentz, North Dakota State, Eagles 26. Paxton Lynch, Memphis, Broncos ___ 2015: 1. Jameis Winston, Florida State, Buccaneers 2. Marcus Mariota, Oregon, Titans ___ 2014: 3. Blake Bortles, Central Florida, Jaguars 22. Johnny Manziel, Texas A&M, Browns 32. Teddy Bridgewater, Louisville, Vikings ___ 2013: 16. EJ Manuel, Florida State, Bills ___ 2012: 1. Andrew Luck, Stanford, Colts 2. Robert Griffin III, Baylor, Redskins 8. Ryan Tannehill, Texas A&M, Dolphins 22. Brandon Weeden, Oklahoma State, Browns ___ 2011: 1. Cam Newton, Auburn, Panthers 8. Jake Locker, Washington, Titans 10. Blaine Gabbert, Missouri, Jaguars 12. Christian Ponder, Florida State, Vikings ___ 2010: 1. Sam Bradford, Oklahoma, Rams 25. Tim Tebow, Florida, Broncos ___ 2009: 1. Matthew Stafford, Georgia, Lions 5. Mark Sanchez, USC, Jets 17. Josh Freeman, Kansas State, Buccaneers ___ 2008: 3. Matt Ryan, Boston College, Falcons 18. Joe Flacco, Delaware, Ravens ___ 2007: 1. JaMarcus Russell, LSU, Raiders 22. Brady Quinn, Notre Dame, Browns ___ 2006: 3. Vince Young, Texas, Titans 10. Matt Leinart, USC, Cardinals 11. Jay Cutler, Vanderbilt, Broncos ___ 2005: 1. Alex Smith, Utah, 49ers 24. Aaron Rodgers, Cal, Packers 25. Jason Campbell, Auburn, Redskins ___ 2004: 1. Eli Manning, Mississippi, Chargers 4. Philip Rivers, North Carolina State, Giants 11. Ben Roethlisberger, Miami (Ohio), Steelers 22. J.P. Losman, Tulane, Bills ___ 2003: 1. Carson Palmer, USC, Bengals 7. Byron Leftwich, Marshall, Jaguars 19. Kyle Boller, Cal, Ravens 22. Rex Grossman, Florida, Bears ___ 2002: 1. David Carr, Fresno State, Texans 3. Joey Harrington, Oregon, Lions 32. Patrick Ramsey, Tulane, Redskins ___ 2001: 1. Michael Vick, Virginia Tech, Falcons ___ 2000: 18. Chad Pennington, Marshall, Jets So we better get lucky in the top 5 picks or so or we are screwed....After the top couple, the rest are hot garbage Edited March 18, 2018 by Reed83HOF
Pete Posted March 18, 2018 Posted March 18, 2018 8 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said: So we better get lucky in the top 5 picks or so or we are screwed....After the top couple, the rest are hot garbage Or draft Drew Brees, Tom Brady, Kirk Cousins, Dak Prescott, Russel Wilson, Nick Foles, Jimmy Garroppolo, etc outside round 1 1
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