OldTimer1960 Posted March 20, 2018 Posted March 20, 2018 1 minute ago, jrober38 said: Watch him play. He's a system QB who has a mediocre arm, no mobility and only decent accuracy. As I said, he's the same guy as Bryce Petty and Landry Jones. How are those guys doing as pros? What games did you watch to form that opinion? I recently re-watched him against Pittsburgh this year and he had mobility and made several plays. What does it mean to be a "system QB"? Every team runs a "system". If the Oklahoma State offense is somehow an unfair advantage for their QB, then maybe the Bills should run that offense with Mason Rudolph at the helm. Unless someone can tell me how that offense won't work in the NFL or why the defenses he faced were much worse than those that Baker Mayfield (same conference) and Josh Rosen and Sam Darnold faced in the notoriously weak defense PAC-10, then I have trouble understanding the criticism.
jrober38 Posted March 20, 2018 Posted March 20, 2018 5 minutes ago, OldTimer1960 said: What games did you watch to form that opinion? I recently re-watched him against Pittsburgh this year and he had mobility and made several plays. What does it mean to be a "system QB"? Every team runs a "system". If the Oklahoma State offense is somehow an unfair advantage for their QB, then maybe the Bills should run that offense with Mason Rudolph at the helm. Unless someone can tell me how that offense won't work in the NFL or why the defenses he faced were much worse than those that Baker Mayfield (same conference) and Josh Rosen and Sam Darnold faced in the notoriously weak defense PAC-10, then I have trouble understanding the criticism. I don't see any upside. I've read several scouting reports and they all say the same things. Mediocre arm, only decent accuracy, wasn't asked to make reads or go through progressions much, no history of success from that offense, etc. It's really hard to find someone who can be a good NFL QB, and I'm not betting on Rudolph. He looks like just a guy like so many players before him. Generally speaking only the best college QBs have a chance of being successful NFL players and I don't think Rudolph falls into that category.
OldTimer1960 Posted March 21, 2018 Posted March 21, 2018 17 minutes ago, jrober38 said: I don't see any upside. I've read several scouting reports and they all say the same things. Mediocre arm, only decent accuracy, wasn't asked to make reads or go through progressions much, no history of success from that offense, etc. It's really hard to find someone who can be a good NFL QB, and I'm not betting on Rudolph. He looks like just a guy like so many players before him. Generally speaking only the best college QBs have a chance of being successful NFL players and I don't think Rudolph falls into that category. I respect that you've read-up. That is my main source of draft info as well. However, I've watched several of Rudolph's games on draftbreakdown.com and my untrained eye can't see why he could not be a very good QB in the NFL. FWIW, I've been watching the NFL since 1970 (doesn't mean that I am a scout)
jrober38 Posted March 21, 2018 Posted March 21, 2018 12 hours ago, OldTimer1960 said: I respect that you've read-up. That is my main source of draft info as well. However, I've watched several of Rudolph's games on draftbreakdown.com and my untrained eye can't see why he could not be a very good QB in the NFL. FWIW, I've been watching the NFL since 1970 (doesn't mean that I am a scout) I'm a critic of 90% of the QBs who come to the NFL. Although Rudolph appears to have some tools, I maintain that pretty much the only QBs who succeed in the NFL are guys who dominated in college. There are obvious exceptions (Cousins, Prescott, Tyrod?), but for the most part, successful NFL QBs are the guys who dominated in college and elevated the performance of their team while they were on campus. I just don't see that from Rudolph, and I think the type of college QB he was is in line with guys like Landry Jones and Bryce Petty, and I think they have very similar pros and cons as prospects coming out. Overall I'm very critical of this years QBs. Of the bunch, I probably like Mayfield the best because he's a guy who dominated in college (since its inception, QBs who have posted a college Total QBR of 90 or higher work out about 75% of the time, and he's the only guy who did it twice). Rosen - for all his tools, why didn't his team play better. He's a great thrower of the football, but I think his arm strength isn't great, he's had injuries, and there are wide spread reports of him being hard to coach and a bad team mate. Darnold - has all the tools, but the turnovers (interceptions and fumbles) are a major concern. You have to take care of the football in the NFL to succeed. I think he probably winds up being a similar player to Matt Stafford (is he good enough?). Allen - I don't see any way this guy succeeds. Accuracy cannot be taught at the NFL level and guys with his track record have no history of success over the past 20 years. You don't go from middle of the road Mountain West QB to NFL Franchise QB. Jackson - the tools are very good, but his size and propensity to scramble around worry me. I'm also not completely sold on his accuracy, although I think he would make a lot of sense for a team planning for life after their current starter who could learn for a year or two (Pittsburgh?).
billsredneck1 Posted March 21, 2018 Posted March 21, 2018 22 minutes ago, jrober38 said: (since its inception, QBs who have posted a college Total QBR of 90 or higher work out about 75% of the time, and he's the only guy who did it twice) he's my fave but i shudder at what is being talked about, that it will take to get to 2.
OldTimer1960 Posted March 21, 2018 Posted March 21, 2018 9 hours ago, jrober38 said: I'm a critic of 90% of the QBs who come to the NFL. Although Rudolph appears to have some tools, I maintain that pretty much the only QBs who succeed in the NFL are guys who dominated in college. There are obvious exceptions (Cousins, Prescott, Tyrod?), but for the most part, successful NFL QBs are the guys who dominated in college and elevated the performance of their team while they were on campus. I just don't see that from Rudolph, and I think the type of college QB he was is in line with guys like Landry Jones and Bryce Petty, and I think they have very similar pros and cons as prospects coming out. Overall I'm very critical of this years QBs. Of the bunch, I probably like Mayfield the best because he's a guy who dominated in college (since its inception, QBs who have posted a college Total QBR of 90 or higher work out about 75% of the time, and he's the only guy who did it twice). Rosen - for all his tools, why didn't his team play better. He's a great thrower of the football, but I think his arm strength isn't great, he's had injuries, and there are wide spread reports of him being hard to coach and a bad team mate. Darnold - has all the tools, but the turnovers (interceptions and fumbles) are a major concern. You have to take care of the football in the NFL to succeed. I think he probably winds up being a similar player to Matt Stafford (is he good enough?). Allen - I don't see any way this guy succeeds. Accuracy cannot be taught at the NFL level and guys with his track record have no history of success over the past 20 years. You don't go from middle of the road Mountain West QB to NFL Franchise QB. Jackson - the tools are very good, but his size and propensity to scramble around worry me. I'm also not completely sold on his accuracy, although I think he would make a lot of sense for a team planning for life after their current starter who could learn for a year or two (Pittsburgh?). Nice detailed post. I am not quite as down on the QBs as your assessment, but I generally agree that it isn’t a group with 3 or 4 QBs that will be good enough to carry a team. I do think that some will be good NFL starting QBs, but odds are that none will be on the transcendent level that Brady, Rodgers and Brees are on. it would not surprise me if someone unexpected ends up being the best of the bunch.
dave mcbride Posted March 21, 2018 Posted March 21, 2018 9 hours ago, jrober38 said: I'm a critic of 90% of the QBs who come to the NFL. Although Rudolph appears to have some tools, I maintain that pretty much the only QBs who succeed in the NFL are guys who dominated in college. There are obvious exceptions (Cousins, Prescott, Tyrod?), but for the most part, successful NFL QBs are the guys who dominated in college and elevated the performance of their team while they were on campus. I just don't see that from Rudolph, and I think the type of college QB he was is in line with guys like Landry Jones and Bryce Petty, and I think they have very similar pros and cons as prospects coming out. Overall I'm very critical of this years QBs. Of the bunch, I probably like Mayfield the best because he's a guy who dominated in college (since its inception, QBs who have posted a college Total QBR of 90 or higher work out about 75% of the time, and he's the only guy who did it twice). Rosen - for all his tools, why didn't his team play better. He's a great thrower of the football, but I think his arm strength isn't great, he's had injuries, and there are wide spread reports of him being hard to coach and a bad team mate. Darnold - has all the tools, but the turnovers (interceptions and fumbles) are a major concern. You have to take care of the football in the NFL to succeed. I think he probably winds up being a similar player to Matt Stafford (is he good enough?). Allen - I don't see any way this guy succeeds. Accuracy cannot be taught at the NFL level and guys with his track record have no history of success over the past 20 years. You don't go from middle of the road Mountain West QB to NFL Franchise QB. Jackson - the tools are very good, but his size and propensity to scramble around worry me. I'm also not completely sold on his accuracy, although I think he would make a lot of sense for a team planning for life after their current starter who could learn for a year or two (Pittsburgh?). Rosen's team didn't play better because the defense was historically awful for a UCLA team this season.
Bronxbomber21 Posted March 21, 2018 Posted March 21, 2018 Don't get me wrong i want Buffalo to draft Mayfield but if they don't and decided to keep the picks and go Rd1. Raquan Smith LB Rd1. Courtland Sutton or Calvin Ridley WR Rd2. Mason Rudolph QB Rd2. Billy Price C Rd3. Orlando Brown OT I would also be happy.
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