Jets just traded with Colts for #3 pick in first round

[oldmanfan]

Just now, Buffalo Ballin said:

 

This is not an argument or negotiation. This is fact. Beane is staying pat at 12. This is not Madden 2018 where you can force trades. Beane used the "excited" for number 12 pick. I use the word "excited" if I knew that I cannot move up, too. It's done. For him to put that out there, that means a lot.

You need to go to a dictionary and look up the definition of fact.  We will know after the draft the facts of what happened.  

 

You're correct it's not an argument or negotiation.  It is you thinking you can see the future, and being pigheaded.

[BBillsWestCoast]

4 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Compounding the issue for the Bills is McD wanting to pass on QB last year..........and the perception that he made a trade with a connection in KC rather than the team with lesser prospects for the coming season and ended up with the 22nd pick instead of the 4th pick.      They are lucky they got a good player in Tre White otherwise they'd be getting crucified Browns-style for it. 

 

Completely true. I am not sure that Mahomes or Watson were the guy they wanted and I believe they thought this year we would have a top 10. I would not mind if they traded away a #3 this year to get a #2 next year. They will need picks again to make trades for sure.

[John from Riverside]

28 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

Everything I've seen from Beane thus far says that he is a smart man and knows better than to reach for a QB like Jackson.

 

Not happening.  DEFINITELY not at #12.

Not at 12...at 22? Def possibility

[RochesterRob]

1 hour ago, Woodman19 said:

With the way most people on here talk, we will end up with the best non QB in the draft at 12 since 11 QB's will be taken before us...

  Or end up with a non QB prospect that graded out considerably better than the available QB prospects.

[Buffalo Ballin]

23 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

You need to go to a dictionary and look up the definition of fact.  We will know after the draft the facts of what happened.  

 

You're correct it's not an argument or negotiation.  It is you thinking you can see the future, and being pigheaded.

Now you're just attacking me instead of giving me links to articles where Beane is currently talking to Giants for number 2 or Browns' number 1 OR 4th pick. We don't have enough. Simple as that. Did you know that Colts wanted a top 10 pick for their number 3? Most of us sat here thought that we had enough for their 3rd. HAHA we got humbled, but of course, Beane knew way before it became public today.

 

 I'm living in the present day reality. Beane pointed out that he's staying pat with the word "excited" for number 12 pick. He's also hyping up Lamar Jackson. I'm not in denial about this. It sounds like you are dreaming up fantasy trade scenarios in Madden trying not to accept a damn good chance that Lamar is coming here.

 

We all know we need a QB. It's way too obvious, but we don't need to be in the top 5 to get a good one. There have been plenty of great quarterbacks drafted in later rounds. History proves this.

 

You can't see the future either, Old Man. Josh Allen,  Mayfield, Rosen, and Dahnold can all be busts (depends if they're taken within top 10). As I google, I haven't found anything where Beane praises Mayfield and Josh Allen. If you find them, link them. Beane might not even take Lamar Jackson at 12.

 

Relax, Chill. Netflix. Take a walk. No need to stress and give up the farm for the number one pick. That usually doesn't work out. Shout outs to Mike Ditka.

Edited March 17, 2018 by Buffalo Ballin

[oldmanfan]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo Ballin said:

Now you're just attacking me instead of giving me links to articles where Beane is currently talking to Giants for number 2 or Browns' number 1 OR 4th pick. We don't have enough. Simple as that. Did you know that Colts wanted a top 10 pick for their number 3? Most of us sat here thought that we had enough for their 3rd. HAHA we got humbled, but of course, Beane knew way before it became public today.

 

 I'm living in the present day reality. Beane pointed out that he's staying pat with the word "excited" for number 12 pick. He's also hyping up Lamar Jackson. I'm not in denial about this. It sounds like you are dreaming up fantasy trade scenarios in Madden trying not to accept a damn good chance that Lamar is coming here.

 

We all know we need a QB. It's way too obvious, but we don't need to be in the top 5 to get a good one. There have been plenty of great quarterbacks drafted in later rounds. History proves this.

 

You can't see the future either, Old Man. Josh Allen,  Mayfield, Rosen, and Dahnold can all be busts (depends if they're taken within top 10). As I google, I haven't found anything where Beane praises Mayfield and Josh Allen. If you find them, link them. Beane might not even take Lamar Jackson at 12.

 

Relax, Chill. Netflix. Take a walk. No need to stress and give up the farm for the number one pick. That usually doesn't work out. Shout outs to Mike Ditka.

Look.  I actually agree with everything above. My one point is you said they can't move up.  They can; it just depends how much they'd want to give up.  And you also don't understand the definition of fact.  But other than those we are of a similar mind.

 

My guess?  They get a stud MLB at 12 and then trade up a few spots for Jackson.  

[YoloinOhio]

41 minutes ago, Buffalo Ballin said:

He's not trading anymore. It's over. Did you read the article I linked? Again, it's right here.

 

http://billswire.usatoday.com/2018/03/16/buffalo-bills-brandon-beane-2018-nfl-draft/

 

Beane put this out there to get the fan base prepared. We're staying at 12.

He also said he had “no intent to trade up or down in the draft” days before he traded up 9 spots.

[IndyMark]

14 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  Or end up with a non QB prospect that graded out considerably better than the available QB prospects.

 

This; it is as likely that Beane will go BPA at #12 as he would try to enter the top 5 for one of the highly suspect QB (none of which are "can't miss').  Again, McD has stated, unequivocally, that ".....we are not as close as people think....".  The Bills are uniquely positioned to pick 6 of the top 100 NFL prospects.  I cannot imagine a scenario where that is less attractive than forfeiting 5 of the top 100 prospects for an "iffy" QB.  There is no Andrew Luck in this draft.  Let me be clear, there is no Andrew Luck in this draft.  The Jets screwed up, they flinched, they panicked.  They paid too much.  The Colts won that trade.....and sadly could have gotten more if they themselves were not so quick and played it out during the draft. 

 

Patience, everyone.  Beane will do us right.  Plus, I am confident Mason Rudolph will become a Bill via the draft.  To me, this is a non-issue.  It will be Rudolph.  Clearly, Jackson is a possibility I just think he will go higher than expected. 

[BigBuff423]

54 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

Everything I've seen from Beane thus far says that he is a smart man and knows better than to reach for a QB like Jackson.

 

Not happening.  DEFINITELY not at #12.

 

And yet, Rosen and Jackson are the only two who played consistently in a Pro Style Offense. Jackson won the Heisman, he actually greatly improved in his pocket passing and was highly coachable in this regard according to reports - and he ran the same basic style Offense Daboll has used and is expected to continue to use...also, the same Offense the Pats* have used for years. Just putting some balance on this for consideration.

[Buffalo Ballin]

9 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

He also said he had “no intent to trade up or down in the draft” days before he traded up 9 spots.

At the time, we had picks to trade up. We still can but ONLY IF we give up 2019 First rounders. But why? Now this is back to my thought; it's just not worth it. All the QBs are unknowns.

I"ll only trade what we have now, including next year's first, for a HEALTHY Andrew Luck. Of course, that's not going to happen. Colts are keeping him.

[Chicken Boo]

6 minutes ago, BigBuff423 said:

 

And yet, Rosen and Jackson are the only two who played consistently in a Pro Style Offense. Jackson won the Heisman, he actually greatly improved in his pocket passing and was highly coachable in this regard according to reports - and he ran the same basic style Offense Daboll has used and is expected to continue to use...also, the same Offense the Pats* have used for years. Just putting some balance on this for consideration.

 

Yet his completion percentage on simple slants is hovering around 50%.

 

I've seen Lamar play.  His legs give him an early advantage on the other QBs in the class, but he has a LONG way to go to be NFL level good passing the football.

 

There's a reason NFL execs wanted him to try his hand at WR and frankly, it's easy to see. 

[YoloinOhio]

6 minutes ago, Buffalo Ballin said:

At the time, we had picks to trade up. We still can but ONLY IF we give up 2019 First rounders. But why? Now this is back to my thought; it's just not worth it. All the QBs are unknowns.

I"ll only trade what we have now, including next year's first, for a HEALTHY Andrew Luck. Of course, that's not going to happen. Colts are keeping him.

Actually he traded a player. We still have all the picks.

[Fetou]

1 minute ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

Yet his completion percentage on simple slants is hovering around 50%.

 

I've seen Lamar play.  His legs give him an early advantage on the other QBs in the class, but he has a LONG way to go to be NFL level good passing the football.

 

There's a reason NFL execs wanted him to try his hand at WR and frankly, it's easy to see. 

 

Lamar has physical tools that Tyrod didn't have. He is larger and longer.

[Chicken Boo]

3 minutes ago, Fetou said:

 

Lamar has physical tools that Tyrod didn't have. He is larger and longer.

 

Lacks touch and is inaccurate.

[Fetou]

1 minute ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

Lacks touch and is inaccurate.

He actually has pretty good touch on his passes. The consistency with his accuracy could be greatly improved with targeted modifications to his throwing base.

 

He is not a top 5 pick kind of prospect, but I think he worth a mid-late 1st round flyer.

[Chuck Wagon]

I think it's more likely Jackson is gone before 12 than it is he's available at 22.

 

 

I could live with Baker / Allen / Jackson at 12 and having 5 other picks on days 1 and 2.  I think Darnold and Rosen are the only guys worth an aggressive move up.

[BigBuff423]

1 hour ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

Yet his completion percentage on simple slants is hovering around 50%.

 

I've seen Lamar play.  His legs give him an early advantage on the other QBs in the class, but he has a LONG way to go to be NFL level good passing the football.

 

There's a reason NFL execs wanted him to try his hand at WR and frankly, it's easy to see. 

 

First, since the Combine that narrative has been exposed as patently false. Second, of all the QBs in this Draft, his adjusted completion percentage is the highest, coming in at the solid mid-70% rate. And I too have watched Lamar play, he will be good. Almost wherever he goes, but in certain systems he can be great.

[Solomon Grundy]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

Look.  I actually agree with everything above. My one point is you said they can't move up.  They can; it just depends how much they'd want to give up.  And you also don't understand the definition of fact.  But other than those we are of a similar mind.

 

My guess?  They get a stud MLB at 12 and then trade up a few spots for Jackson.  

If Beane can move up from 22 before the Cardinals pick, he's GM of the year!!

[Locomark]

Anyone but Rosen, Darnold or Mayfield is a bust in my book. They must go to 2 to get Rosen or Darnold.,Trade to 4 w Cleveland and then trade spot 4 and then next years 1 plus to get us to 2. The giants want Barkley and he will be there at 4 because the top 3 will take QBs!

[Ol Dirty B]

7 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

And, who is that, exactly?  There is no "top guy".  They all have serious flaws.

 

 

I don't know if you're an idiot or not, but you are definitely attempting to rewrite history to fit your own agenda.

 

 

Too bad that you and your friend don't remember that accepting "leftovers" in 2004 rather than chasing after a first round pretender would have yielded Matt Schaub. 

 

You both are hysterical babies ... and ignorant of what went down in 2004.

• 2004 had a bonafide consensus #1 pick in Elli Manning.  Nobody else was even close, and that included all positions not just QBs. Consensus #1 picks hit at a much higher rate than do all over picks, including the guys taken at #2 or #3.   In 2018, there isn't even a consensus on the best QB.   That suggests that maybe all of them are pretenders or, more than likely, one will actually make a decent NFL starter and the rest will bust.
• Phillip Rivers and Ben Roethlisberger were both elite prospects significantly better than any of the QB prospects in 2018.  That's the major difference between 2004 and 2018: the quality of the prospects.  Losman was easily a better prospect than Jackson or Rudolph, and at least as good as Allen.  Darnold, Rosen, and Mayfield are only marginally better prospects than Losman, and nowhere near as good as the top three from 2004.
• JP Losman would likely have been a second rounder in 2004 if the Bills hadn't traded up to grab him in the first round when Pittsburgh took Roethlisberger at #11.  It was a move predicated on placating the fans who had worked themselves into a QB frenzy.  If Donahoe had waited until the second round and taken Losman, or if he was gone, taken the "leftover" who turned out to be Matt Schaub, who was a decent starter (at least as good as a Dalton or Flacco or Tannehill if not better), the Bills would have had a shot at Aaron Rodgers in the 2005 draft.
• 2018 really resembles 2011 or 2012 more than it resembles 2004 when there were lots of QB prospects taken in the first round (4 in each draft) but only 3 had real success (Newton, Luck, Tannehill), although both of those drafts featured consensus #1 picks who, like Manning, were clearly much better prospects than the over-hyped pretenders whom teams wasted first rounders on (and Washington wasted a lot more than just that).  Aside from the #1 consensus picks, the real quality in both 2011 and 2012 largely came from the "leftovers" or developmental guys who were drafted after the first round: Andy Dalton and Tyrod Taylor in 2011 and Russell Wilson, Kirk Cousins, and Nick Foles in 2012.  Oh, yeah, and a real "leftover" among "leftovers", undrafted FA Case Keenum also came out of 2012.
• The Bills have been carefully building up a cache of draft picks that they could use to move up to get a QB prospect if one they like is available, but they don't seem likely to waste those picks drafting a QB that they don't really believe in just to draft a first round QB.  That seemed to be the message from Beane's press conference.  Making personnel moves primarily to pander to the fan base rather than to build a winning football team doesn't seem to be part of the Beane-McDermott regime's DNA, which is a sea change from the way the Bills operated in 2004.

In reality, what you two are suggesting --- trading whatever it takes to move to the top of the draft board to take a QB, any QB with a lot of positive hype from the media draft mavens -- is EXACTLY what the Bills did in 2004 that got them Losman.  I'm sorry that the Bills picked TJ Graham over Russell Wilson in 2012, but I'm sure not sorry that the Bills passed on Matt Leinart, Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder, and Brandon Weeden.  Too bad they didn't do the same with Losman.  

 

 

So many things wrong in this post. First of all, we are saying these things because we learned from 2004. We aren't saying we knew this in 2004.

 

Everyone says the Bills were going to take Rothlisberger at 13. He was their guy. What a coincidence, we are here at 12 and he was taken at 11 in 2004. If he was your guy, at that position, you have to go up and get him. If you are confident enough that he is your prospect, I don't care if they say you over drafted immediately at that time. What matters is the next 12 years.

 

It's not being hysterical or crying, it's just this is a waste of time if the moves have been to go a combination of LB, CB, OL, WE, RB in the first. 

 

Then your post goes into some weird defense of the Losman pick. He's not marginally worse of a prospect than Darnold, Mayfield, or Rosen. Even Jackson too. You say it yourself, you said he'd he a 2nd rounder if it wasn't for the Bills. 3 top 10 guys are a hell of a lot more valued than what you claim Losman was seen as by most of the league.

 

Then you for some reason brought up Matt Schaub. I don't even know what to do with that.

 

I mean are you seriously arguing that we should have wanted 10 years of Matt Schaub? What a stupid argument. 

 

Edited March 18, 2018 by Ol Dirty B