MrEpsYtown Posted March 16, 2018 Posted March 16, 2018 23 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: The other thing that people are missing is that he wasn’t a liability in the pass defense last year. The scheme is such that he isn’t isolated on smaller, quicker players. He is never man to man on backs and tight ends, but the MIKE in this system needs to be able to play a deep middle. He has to have range and speed and he has to be able to get to crossers and things of that nature before they get to the first down. He is terrible at this and he doesn't have the speed to make up for it. I still say he is the reason we lost to Jacksonville. Bortles was able to run up in the pocket and ran for 10-15 yards every time before anyone got to him. This happened because Brown is too slow. He has to be able to come out of his zone like a missle downhill and tackle that quarterback. He simply cannot do it. He's a 3-4 ILB who comes off the field in nickel ala Reggie Ragland. 1
gonzo1105 Posted March 16, 2018 Posted March 16, 2018 5 hours ago, NeckMeat182 said: He played in every game for 4 yrs straight and made 3 mil over 4 yrs. Pay the man 7mil a yr avg for 4 years and front load it incase a better option come around. So you advocate giving a guy an extra 3 million dollars a season even tho his market may not dictate that? Doesn’t sound like good managing of the salary camp and shrewd business strategy. If he was a 7-8 million dollar a year player he would have been signed by now. Truth is he is a 4-5 million dollar a year Player 1
NewEraBills Posted March 16, 2018 Posted March 16, 2018 I'd prefer a fresh start at MLB. He gets exposed way too much in the passing game, especially by NE. He might want more money. Nobody is beating down his doors though. Hopefully, someone is willing to give him 4.5 and he takes it and we move on. 1
billsbackto81 Posted March 16, 2018 Posted March 16, 2018 6 minutes ago, gonzo1105 said: So you advocate giving a guy an extra 3 million dollars a season even tho his market may not dictate that? Doesn’t sound like good managing of the salary camp and shrewd business strategy. If he was a 7-8 million dollar a year player he would have been signed by now. Truth is he is a 4-5 million dollar a year Player Can't argue that. GMs aren't exactly bashing his door in are they?
Kirby Jackson Posted March 16, 2018 Posted March 16, 2018 33 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said: He is never man to man on backs and tight ends, but the MIKE in this system needs to be able to play a deep middle. He has to have range and speed and he has to be able to get to crossers and things of that nature before they get to the first down. He is terrible at this and he doesn't have the speed to make up for it. I still say he is the reason we lost to Jacksonville. Bortles was able to run up in the pocket and ran for 10-15 yards every time before anyone got to him. This happened because Brown is too slow. He has to be able to come out of his zone like a missle downhill and tackle that quarterback. He simply cannot do it. He's a 3-4 ILB who comes off the field in nickel ala Reggie Ragland. He graded out as an average LB in coverage last year. He is never going to have elite closing speed. If the front 4 gets pressure though, he diagnoses quickly and can offset his average speed and make plays. In the Jags game Bortles was too comfortable in the pocket. The Bills still need 2 starting LBs to go with Milano (and depth). Brown raises the floor. He’s a pretty good, durable, smart football player that McDermott likes. His play will improve with the improved DL. He will never be great but can’t check off one more need. They still need to add an athletic LB in the draft (Darius Leonard is my pick).
aristocrat Posted March 16, 2018 Posted March 16, 2018 3 year deal like all players are getting which means it’s a two year deal.
MrEpsYtown Posted March 16, 2018 Posted March 16, 2018 28 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: He graded out as an average LB in coverage last year. He is never going to have elite closing speed. If the front 4 gets pressure though, he diagnoses quickly and can offset his average speed and make plays. In the Jags game Bortles was too comfortable in the pocket. The Bills still need 2 starting LBs to go with Milano (and depth). Brown raises the floor. He’s a pretty good, durable, smart football player that McDermott likes. His play will improve with the improved DL. He will never be great but can’t check off one more need. They still need to add an athletic LB in the draft (Darius Leonard is my pick). We could not get to Bortles, but once he breaks the pocket, linebackers need to have enough closing speed so he isn't running for 30 yards. The linebackers need to close the gap and stop the quarterback before he gets to the first down marker. I blame Brown and Ramon Humber. They both stink. I just think bringing him back is a very poor use of funds. He has proven to be mediocre, and that can't be the goal, can it? When we eventually find his replacement, he can't really play special teams either. Seems like there is no point to having him back. Yes he is smart and such, maybe he should be a linebacker coach or something. Just a very poor fit for our scheme. 1
Spielman Posted March 16, 2018 Posted March 16, 2018 (edited) 6 hours ago, NeckMeat182 said: He played in every game for 4 yrs straight and made 3 mil over 4 yrs. Pay the man 7mil a yr avg for 4 years and front load it incase a better option come around. We need to move on from him...too slow, makes all of his tackles downfield. Watch a tape of him vs one of Rashaan Evans. $7MM is crazy for a player of his caliber. How about $-0- for 4 years..... Edited March 16, 2018 by Loosh
JinxedBill1 Posted March 16, 2018 Posted March 16, 2018 I think they have a standing offer for a lot of the players left unsigned. Brown is a good linebacker, underrated round these parts. I think having Star will help immensely. We still need another LB tho. So is getting up there and there's not a lot after brown and Milano.
Doc Posted March 16, 2018 Posted March 16, 2018 Good. Maybe bump-up the offer a bit but don't break the bank for him. I hope they have the same for Gaines.
YoloinOhio Posted March 16, 2018 Posted March 16, 2018 Eric Reid from the niners is a versatile LB/safety who I would not mind bringing in for this defense. 2
Virgil Posted March 16, 2018 Posted March 16, 2018 He fills a need and knows the system. People aren’t knocking down his door. 5-6 mil for a 2-3 years hopefully gets it done and he’s serviceable until we upgrade. I know McDermott wants his Kuechley
Kirby Jackson Posted March 16, 2018 Posted March 16, 2018 32 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said: We could not get to Bortles, but once he breaks the pocket, linebackers need to have enough closing speed so he isn't running for 30 yards. The linebackers need to close the gap and stop the quarterback before he gets to the first down marker. I blame Brown and Ramon Humber. They both stink. I just think bringing him back is a very poor use of funds. He has proven to be mediocre, and that can't be the goal, can it? When we eventually find his replacement, he can't really play special teams either. Seems like there is no point to having him back. Yes he is smart and such, maybe he should be a linebacker coach or something. Just a very poor fit for our scheme. My point is that when there is no pressure the LBs have to hold their coverage assignments longer. When the QB is under pressure the LBs can begin pursuing. If he is just waiting in the pocket they have to stay in coverage until he commits to running. He isn’t awful. He led the league in tackles and graded out pretty well. The Bills still need 2 starting LBs, 2 starting OL, WR2, franchise QB and a slot corner. Brown immediately crosses one of those needs off and you are going to get pretty good play. You aren’t ever going to have stars at every position in the salary cap era. Too often, Bills fans take the approach of “just get someone else and it will be better.” With the market where it is, and the draft resources that will be used to go up, you are more likely to downgrade from Brown than upgrade. Milano, Brown and a rookie is not a bad group.
Mark80 Posted March 16, 2018 Posted March 16, 2018 (edited) Preston Brown is not good. Constantly blown up by blockers. Constantly attacking the wrong gaps. Constantly left in the dust in man coverage, so much so that they stopped even trying putting him in man. Constantly standing in a zone that doesn't have a guy within a 10 yard radius of him (and I actually paused the DVR a couple times and saw this with no one within 20 yards, 20!!!) instead of adjusting his coverage. Is some of that taught? Perhaps. While I do think he would be a good depth guy, I would not pay him starting LB money. Leading the league in tackles is such a garbage stat. Especially when it includes assists. Most of his tackles were at least 5 yards past the LOS or just cleaning up other guys work. That is not what a MLB should be doing. There is a reason no one is jumping all over this guy. Edited March 16, 2018 by Mark80 3
MrEpsYtown Posted March 16, 2018 Posted March 16, 2018 4 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: My point is that when there is no pressure the LBs have to hold their coverage assignments longer. When the QB is under pressure the LBs can begin pursuing. If he is just waiting in the pocket they have to stay in coverage until he commits to running. He isn’t awful. He led the league in tackles and graded out pretty well. The Bills still need 2 starting LBs, 2 starting OL, WR2, franchise QB and a slot corner. Brown immediately crosses one of those needs off and you are going to get pretty good play. You aren’t ever going to have stars at every position in the salary cap era. Too often, Bills fans take the approach of “just get someone else and it will be better.” With the market where it is, and the draft resources that will be used to go up, you are more likely to downgrade from Brown than upgrade. Milano, Brown and a rookie is not a bad group. I'll have to agree to disagree. Once that quarterback breaks the pocket that linebacker needs to have enough speed to run him down. At least in this zone scheme. Preston is just not twitchy enough to make that transition and doesn't have the speed. He is a 2 down backer in this league. There is value in that, but not for us. And that is my point. You just can't pay a player of his caliber anything close to what the market is dictating. It is what we used to do with the Chris Kelsays of the world. Let him move on and figure it out some other way.
Kirby Jackson Posted March 16, 2018 Posted March 16, 2018 3 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said: I'll have to agree to disagree. Once that quarterback breaks the pocket that linebacker needs to have enough speed to run him down. At least in this zone scheme. Preston is just not twitchy enough to make that transition and doesn't have the speed. He is a 2 down backer in this league. There is value in that, but not for us. And that is my point. You just can't pay a player of his caliber anything close to what the market is dictating. It is what we used to do with the Chris Kelsays of the world. Let him move on and figure it out some other way. What’s the number in your head that would work? I am probably a little higher than most but $6M average is something I’m comfortable with. I think Avery Williamson is a poor man’s Preston Brown and he got 3 years, $22.5M with $16M guaranteed.
Solomon Grundy Posted March 16, 2018 Posted March 16, 2018 7 hours ago, iccrewman112 said: Would love... Edmunds at 12 Vander Esch at 21 or 53 I'd like to get Edmunds too, but we CANNOT pass on QB at 12!! Maybe Star and Kyle/rookie DT will allow Preston Brown to roam the opponents backfield. Then we can see what Brown can do for you?
MrEpsYtown Posted March 16, 2018 Posted March 16, 2018 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: What’s the number in your head that would work? I am probably a little higher than most but $6M average is something I’m comfortable with. I think Avery Williamson is a poor man’s Preston Brown and he got 3 years, $22.5M with $16M guaranteed. I don't want him back at any price. If he returns, he will continue to hold this defense back. Manti T'eo, essentially the same player, signed a 2 year 5 million dollar contract. He is a part time player that only plays in base 4-3 sets. I'd be comfortable with that number, but I'd prefer he not come back. Also, Avery Williamson is a playmaker. He has something like 12 career sacks. The dude is a difference maker. Edited March 16, 2018 by MrEpsYtown 1
Starr Almighty Posted March 16, 2018 Posted March 16, 2018 Hopefully the offer gets taken off the table. The guy is part of the problem with the run D. He rarely makes a tackle for a loss. Yes he made alot of tackles but those were downfield since he can't shed blocks. I really hope Brown isn't resigned.
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