Koko78 Posted March 14, 2018 Posted March 14, 2018 4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: This, unless they are confident Luck will be back in which case use pick #3 to put more pieces around him and take a QB later. That would be the best-case scenario for the Colts, but I do not believe it is likely they will know by the end of April. He just began being able to make throwing motions with his shoulder what, a month ago?
USABuffaloFan Posted March 14, 2018 Posted March 14, 2018 1 hour ago, OldTimer1960 said: I respectfully disagree. Luck, if healthy, is a far better QB than Foles has proven to be. Foles had one great season, lost his job and was a backup came in and struggled at the end of 2017 regular season and then got hot in the playoffs. I would say the odds are that going forward Foles will play more like the backup that he's been for most of his career instead of the guy who had a miracle season and a 3 game hot streak at a very opportune time. Reich coached Foles as OC. That is the difference. He knows Luck has 4 years left. If Indy likes one of these QB's a 3 way trade could happen. Foles has 1 year left cheap and Indy in 2019 can go with new QB and have 2 - 1st rounders. Indy is at least 2-3 years of rebuilding, why waste Luck and why get 2-3 more wins and damage draft status and NOT make the playoffs. Reich I am sure wants his style of players!
26CornerBlitz Posted March 14, 2018 Posted March 14, 2018 Rapoport: Watson expected back for Texans' OTAs, Colts expect Luck for training camp (0:57) Mon, Mar 12, 2018 NFL Network Insider Ian Rapoport reports that the Houston Texans expect QB Deshaun Watson to be ready for OTAs, and the Indianapolis Colts expect Andrew Luck to be back for the team by training camp. 1
akm0404 Posted March 14, 2018 Posted March 14, 2018 If they'd trade him, we don't want him. If they want him, we can't have him. /thread 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 14, 2018 Posted March 14, 2018 1 hour ago, dubs said: They would save 5 in ‘18, but 14, 22, and 21 in the subsequent 3 years. They would acquire a couple more picks in this and possible next years draft. Dubs: how much cap space do the Colts have? Do you know? Do they need to clear cap space? (They would actually clear more than that, but cap space is far from the Colts most pressing need 1 hour ago, dubs said: I think it’s possible and that the colts would be smart to consider it. As an aside, I do sincerely appreciate the well thought out response. Reason I don’t come to the board very often anymore is how infested it’s become with snark, etc... OK, you appreciate the response, but did you actually USE it to go look at things like the Colt's cap space (one click from the link I included), Lucks draft profile vs 2 top rated QB this year, to actually like check your thoughts against various factors?
Worstcaseontario Posted March 14, 2018 Posted March 14, 2018 I for one hope we get the lord and savior luck
SouthNYfan Posted March 14, 2018 Posted March 14, 2018 This has his hashed out numerous times. If the colts think his arm is healthy, then he isn't available, at all, period. IfLuck is available, it means the colts think his arm is shot, so why would you want him at that point? #lockthethread
dubs Posted March 14, 2018 Posted March 14, 2018 16 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Dubs: how much cap space do the Colts have? Do you know? Do they need to clear cap space? (They would actually clear more than that, but cap space is far from the Colts most pressing need OK, you appreciate the response, but did you actually USE it to go look at things like the Colt's cap space (one click from the link I included), Lucks draft profile vs 2 top rated QB this year, to actually like check your thoughts against various factors? Why would I click through for things I already know? They have a lot of projected cap space available, they could get more. More is better. Luck’s college draft profile isn’t that useful of a data point now. The other draft profiles are useful, but you don’t know what the Colts draft profile of these QBs are and that’s all that really matters. Its not complicated. It’s also not likely to happen. But I don’t think its insane for the Colts to make a trade involving luck. The primary issue is you need two GMs with tons of conviction and fortitude. And get them to agree on a price. Today’s NFL is highly devoid of that.
DKBills25 Posted March 14, 2018 Posted March 14, 2018 I think as soon as glen passes his pyshical we make the trade into top 5 but I also think we are gonna trade for a QB
Kaenon Posted March 14, 2018 Posted March 14, 2018 31 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said: This has his hashed out numerous times. If the colts think his arm is healthy, then he isn't available, at all, period. IfLuck is available, it means the colts think his arm is shot, so why would you want him at that point? #lockthethread I would have to agree with this logic.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 14, 2018 Posted March 14, 2018 14 minutes ago, dubs said: Why would I click through for things I already know? They have a lot of projected cap space available, they could get more. More is better. Now see, this is why people get snarky. They try to be nice, and be all educational and point stuff out, and this is the kind of goofball crap that slings back at them. "why would I click through things I already know"? Um, maybe because you don't know as much as you think you do? Maybe because if someone thinks you are flogging a silly point and offers you gouge, you should, oh, I don't know, have a look maybe? What is the cap floor for an NFL team? No, more is not always better. Moreover the point of the NFL is to win games, not accumulate cap space. 14 minutes ago, dubs said: Luck’s college draft profile isn’t that useful of a data point now. The other draft profiles are useful The point is for you, and the things you already know, to compare what was said about Luck pre-draft vs what is being said about this year's QB pre draft - so as to better understand why Luck was seen as a generational QB, and this year's draft crop are seen as good QB this year, some of whom might become NFL starters. The difference is quite stark, even stunning. 1
dubs Posted March 14, 2018 Posted March 14, 2018 7 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Now see, this is why people get snarky. They try to be nice, and be all educational and point stuff out, and this is the kind of goofball crap that slings back at them. "why would I click through things I already know"? Um, maybe because you don't know as much as you think you do? Maybe because if someone thinks you are flogging a silly point and offers you gouge, you should, oh, I don't know, have a look maybe? What is the cap floor for an NFL team? No, more is not always better. Moreover the point of the NFL is to win games, not accumulate cap space. The point is for you, and the things you already know, to compare what was said about Luck pre-draft vs what is being said about this year's QB pre draft - so as to better understand why Luck was seen as a generational QB, and this year's draft crop are seen as good QB this year, some of whom might become NFL starters. The difference is quite stark, even stunning. You really didn’t offer much of anything that’s not general knowledge, that’s the point. I wasn’t being snarky at all. Just fully aware of the information you passed along. Don’t agree with your conclusions. Why is that hard to understand? Passing along a few links to data that isn’t hard to find doesn’t make you an authority on the topic. Fully respect your opinion on this and am fairly certain most people would agree with your take, im not one of them. Again, not saying I think it’s likely. But I certainly think it makes a ton of sense for both teams, given all of the current circumstances.
SouthNYfan Posted March 14, 2018 Posted March 14, 2018 3 hours ago, dubs said: Anytime you can introduce some snark to a conversation, you gotta do it. But seriously though, I don’t think the price would be as high as people think. If the colts have any concerns at all about luck, this is about their only chance to reboot. Certainly worth considering from their end. The price would be huge. If they don't think he's healthy long term, then why would we want to give up anything for him?? If they think he is healthy, then he's not available. It's simple, really it is. 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 14, 2018 Posted March 14, 2018 (edited) 11 minutes ago, dubs said: You really didn’t offer much of anything that’s not general knowledge, that’s the point. Great, then glad you agree with that 'general knowledge' that Luck is a generational talent at QB - one of the 4-5 best in the league when healthy - and a team would be foolish to give him up (if he can come back) for a chance at a draftee evaluated as much lower quality than Luck was, and some extra cap space they don't need. And they say folks with opinions just can't be persuaded! Saying stuff that contravenes 'general knowledge' and dismissing a post which takes the time to point out what the problems with a chap's opinions may be - and you are being very dismissive here and in your last post - is one of the reasons for so much snark on this board - people get worn down. And if "passing along a few links (that you admit you didn't bother to look at) doesn't make you an authority" isn't snarky, I don't know what is. Edited March 14, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan 1
dave mcbride Posted March 14, 2018 Posted March 14, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Great, then glad you agree with that 'general knowledge' that Luck is a generational talent at QB - one of the 4-5 best in the league when healthy - and a team would be foolish to give him up (if he can come back) for a chance at a draftee evaluated as much lower quality than Luck was, and some extra cap space they don't need. And they say folks with opinions just can't be persuaded! Foles is the relevant comparison, not draftees. Take a look at Foles' religiousity (he plans on being a minister) and then think about Frank Reich - his ultra-religious OC from last year, after all. The Bills don't have a credible qb on the roster. Something is up, I suspect, although I don't know what's going to happen, obviously. Edited March 14, 2018 by dave mcbride
dubs Posted March 14, 2018 Posted March 14, 2018 1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Great, then glad you agree with that 'general knowledge' that Luck is a generational talent at QB - one of the 4-5 best in the league when healthy - and a team would be foolish to give him up (if he can come back) for a chance at a draftee evaluated as much lower quality than Luck was, and some extra cap space they don't need. And they say folks with opinions just can't be persuaded! There is much more to it and I don’t care to explain it, again.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 14, 2018 Posted March 14, 2018 (edited) 50 minutes ago, DKBills25 said: I think as soon as glen passes his pyshical we make the trade into top 5 but I also think we are gonna trade for a QB Who? And if we're making a trade into the top 5 - who or what are we trading? 2 minutes ago, dubs said: There is much more to it and I don’t care to explain it, again. You didn't explain the first time, so there's no again. Just stated an opinion, misstated that the Colts would clear a ton of cap (they won't, this year) and implied that's something they need (they don't), and mis-equated the value of an unproven draftee QB with (if healthy) a generational top prospect. I'm done though. 5 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: Foles is the relevant comparison, not draftees. Take a look at Foles' religiousity (he plans on being a minister) and then think about Frank Reich - his ultra-religious OC from last year, after all. The Bills don't have a credible qb on the roster. Something is up, I suspect, although I don't know what's going to happen, obviously. The Bills lack of a credible QB is not the Colts problem. And if Frank Reich drives (whatever input he has into) player personnel decisions with his religion instead of cold hard football evaluation, he'll be out of the league PDQ Edited March 14, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan 1
dave mcbride Posted March 14, 2018 Posted March 14, 2018 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Who? And if we're making a trade into the top 5 - who or what are we trading? You didn't explain the first time, so there's no again. Just stated an opinion, misstated that the Colts would clear a ton of cap (they won't, this year) and implied that's something they need (they don't), and mis-equated the value of an unproven draftee QB with (if healthy) a generational top prospect. I'm done though. The Bills lack of a credible QB is not the Colts problem. And if Frank Reich drives (whatever input he has into) player personnel decisions with his religion instead of cold hard football evaluation, he'll be out of the league PDQ Check out the other threads. I strongly believe that the relationship between Luck and the Colts management has been terrible the last couple of years and may be fundamentally broken -- on both sides. Ask yourself: why did Josh McDaniels bail at the last second? As for the Bills' lack of a credible qb at the moment, do you really think they're simply trying and failing with regard to every credible option right now? This is a team with a plan and with the space to do to what they want. Edited March 14, 2018 by dave mcbride
dubs Posted March 14, 2018 Posted March 14, 2018 6 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: You didn't explain the first time, so there's no again. Just stated an opinion, misstated that the Colts would clear a ton of cap (they won't, this year) and implied that's something they need (they don't), and mis-equated the value of an unproven draftee QB with (if healthy) a generational top prospect. I'm done though. You didn't explain the first time, so there's no again. Just stated an opinion, (incorrect, it was a potential scenario) misstated that the Colts would clear a ton of cap (they won't, this year - as far as I know, 2019, 2020, and 2021 matter) and implied that's something they need (they don't - really? 20m can buy a lot of help to build a team), and mis-equated the value of an unproven draftee QB with (if healthy) a generational top prospect (Luck is fantastic, but he’s fallen a bit short of the predraft evaluation for years ago) I'm done though (sounds good!) also and plus - the colts could be getting a couple valuable draft picks in return.
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