Albright: Broncos Targeting Mayfield, Bill's Josh Allen

[YoloinOhio]

3 minutes ago, Logic said:

Here are the two things that don't smell right about the Allen interest:

First, if the apple of your eye is Allen, who is widely believed to be the QB MOST in need of spending a year or two on the bench....then why trade away Tyrod Taylor? If you're picking a guy that you know needs to sit, you don't just give up a quality bridge QB on a good contract. And if you DO give him up, you go aggressively after one of the big name FA QBs (Bradford, Bridgewater, McCown, etc). The fact that the Bills both gave up Tyrod Taylor AND didn't go after a "Quality" bridge QB doesn't make sense in the context of drafting Allen.

Second, the Bills did not have scouts at a single one of Josh Allen's games this year! They had scouts at multiple games of Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield, Rudolph, Jackson, and Falk. But NO Bills scouts attended any Josh Allen games. Would they really give up a ton of assets to trade up for a kid that no one in the front office had seen play live and in person? That seems crazy to me!

 

Apparently they had one scout go to one of his games. Can’t recall which. But Beane didn’t see him play.

[Logic]

8 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Apparently they had one scout go to one of his games. Can’t recall which. But Beane didn’t see him play.

Do you agree with me that that's a little weird? I just feel like if you're going to move Hell and high water to trade up for a QB, it should probably be one you've actually seen play football in person!

[JaCrispy]

5 minutes ago, Logic said:

Do you agree with me that that's a little weird? I just feel like if you're going to move Hell and high water to trade up for a QB, it should probably be one you've actually seen play football in person!

From your mouth to God’s ears...after all this excitement Allen would be such a letdown...and I would really like to feel happy about the QB the Bills draft for a change.

Edited March 13, 2018 by JaCrispy

[MRW]

33 minutes ago, #34fan said:

If it ain't Darnold, -then it's a mistake.

 

That's coming from a guy who isn't a Darnold fan either... The money in this draft was DT at 21 and LB at 22...

 

Moving up for a QB bust seems like a play from Buddy Nix's book

 

When did Nix move up to draft a QB?

[RochesterRob]

24 minutes ago, Logic said:

Here are the two things that don't smell right about the Allen interest:

First, if the apple of your eye is Allen, who is widely believed to be the QB MOST in need of spending a year or two on the bench....then why trade away Tyrod Taylor? If you're picking a guy that you know needs to sit, you don't just give up a quality bridge QB on a good contract. And if you DO give him up, you go aggressively after one of the big name FA QBs (Bradford, Bridgewater, McCown, etc). The fact that the Bills both gave up Tyrod Taylor AND didn't go after a "Quality" bridge QB doesn't make sense in the context of drafting Allen.

Second, the Bills did not have scouts at a single one of Josh Allen's games this year! They had scouts at multiple games of Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield, Rudolph, Jackson, and Falk. But NO Bills scouts attended any Josh Allen games. Would they really give up a ton of assets to trade up for a kid that no one in the front office had seen play live and in person? That seems crazy to me!

 

  I think that you sort of answered your own question.  If Josh Allen is not seen as highly as the other bandied names then it will take less of a trade up to get him or maybe you have to go no further than 12.  Though unlikely it would be an effective distraction to hire a scout on a  "contract" basis versus using a guy who is salaried by the Bills to check Allen out.  Maybe Tyrod let management know after the season that he was not going to go with the status quo and was for sure gone after the contract.  In turn the Bills managed to extract some value in a draft pick from a player who had one foot out the door before this current NFL calendar year started.

[Bangarang]

42 minutes ago, Ittakestime said:

This may shock some people here, but Allen is a less risky pick than Rosen.

 

Care to explain?

[Alphadawg7]

I pray its the other way around.  I want Mayfield.  

 

Admittedly, Allens combine was impressive...but I hate the risk of combine hero's who dont have the resume to match.  I wont hate drafting Allen, in fact Beane and McD have my full confidence, so if they feel he is the dude then I will get behind it.  But Mayfield is my guy, time will tell who the better players are, but I would bet on Mayfield as we sit here today.  But I also don't pretend to know more than our FO who I have faith in, so will back their decision.

[DCOrange]

29 minutes ago, Logic said:

Here are the two things that don't smell right about the Allen interest:

First, if the apple of your eye is Allen, who is widely believed to be the QB MOST in need of spending a year or two on the bench....then why trade away Tyrod Taylor? If you're picking a guy that you know needs to sit, you don't just give up a quality bridge QB on a good contract. And if you DO give him up, you go aggressively after one of the big name FA QBs (Bradford, Bridgewater, McCown, etc). The fact that the Bills both gave up Tyrod Taylor AND didn't go after a "Quality" bridge QB doesn't make sense in the context of drafting Allen.

Second, the Bills did not have scouts at a single one of Josh Allen's games this year! They had scouts at multiple games of Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield, Rudolph, Jackson, and Falk. But NO Bills scouts attended any Josh Allen games. Would they really give up a ton of assets to trade up for a kid that no one in the front office had seen play live and in person? That seems crazy to me!

 

 

Buffalo has been scouting Allen for two years now. They did in fact go see one of his games in person this season but they can also glean just as much from watching his film from better angles than they’d get by being in the crowd.

 

Regarding the bridge QB theory, there’s still QBs out there on the market and perhaps the front office is willing to take a step back in order to take a larger step forwards. Also, Allen could theoretically be ready to start in time for the regular season if need be. He has experience doing full field reads and playing under Center. It really depends on how long they think it’ll take to get his footwork right. You could make a decent argument that he’s closer to being ready for opening day than any of the QBs outside of Rosen honestly. I personally think Mayfield is more ready as well, but it’s debatable. 

[Formerly Allan in MD]

9 hours ago, RussellDopeland said:

If the Broncos want Mayfield, why the hell are they going to dump a Brink's Truck load of cash in Keenum's lap? Some of these rumours are convoluted drivel

I'll buy that.

[RochesterRob]

5 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

 

Buffalo has been scouting Allen for two years now. They did in fact go see one of his games in person this season but they can also glean just as much from watching his film from better angles than they’d get by being in the crowd.

 

Regarding the bridge QB theory, there’s still QBs out there on the market and perhaps the front office is willing to take a step back in order to take a larger step forwards. Also, Allen could theoretically be ready to start in time for the regular season if need be. He has experience doing full field reads and playing under Center. It really depends on how long they think it’ll take to get his footwork right. You could make a decent argument that he’s closer to being ready for opening day than any of the QBs outside of Rosen honestly. I personally think Mayfield is more ready as well, but it’s debatable. 

  Interesting.  I still question scouting other than seeing the game unfold live as the camera may not capture everything a scout wants to see.  Contract workers are all over the place in business so why could not Beane approach a guy, perhaps a retired scout who does not want to work a lot, to go to Allen's games and create a report.

[GunnerBill]

9 hours ago, kdiggz said:

I still can't wait to see Joe Webb's package

 

The glimpse I got I have to tell you it was impressive... if anything I'd like to see it expanded. 

[DCOrange]

6 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  Interesting.  I still question scouting other than seeing the game unfold live as the camera may not capture everything a scout wants to see.  Contract workers are all over the place in business so why could not Beane approach a guy, perhaps a retired scout who does not want to work a lot, to go to Allen's games and create a report.

 

I imagine at least part of it is also just limited resources. Wyoming has one player that teams are interested in; it's not an efficient use of your scouting resources to send someone to watch them play numerous times when you can send someone to the USC-UCLA game and scout like 15 different guys.

 

But at any rate, Buffalo sent scouts to at least two Wyoming games this season that we know of: the Oregon and Utah State games; those are the only ones that have been reported.

[GrizzReaper]

52 minutes ago, Logic said:

Here are the two things that don't smell right about the Allen interest:

First, if the apple of your eye is Allen, who is widely believed to be the QB MOST in need of spending a year or two on the bench....then why trade away Tyrod Taylor? If you're picking a guy that you know needs to sit, you don't just give up a quality bridge QB on a good contract. And if you DO give him up, you go aggressively after one of the big name FA QBs (Bradford, Bridgewater, McCown, etc). The fact that the Bills both gave up Tyrod Taylor AND didn't go after a "Quality" bridge QB doesn't make sense in the context of drafting Allen.

Second, the Bills did not have scouts at a single one of Josh Allen's games this year! They had scouts at multiple games of Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield, Rudolph, Jackson, and Falk. But NO Bills scouts attended any Josh Allen games. Would they really give up a ton of assets to trade up for a kid that no one in the front office had seen play live and in person? That seems crazy to me!

 

 My worry is McD is the same coach who let Nasty Nate start 2 games... Hopefully he knows better than to take Allen. He did make a big mistake letting Peterman start a 2nd game.

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Ittakestime said:

This may shock some people here, but Allen is a less risky pick than Rosen.

 

No. No he is not. 

[RochesterRob]

2 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

 

I imagine at least part of it is also just limited resources. Wyoming has one player that teams are interested in; it's not an efficient use of your scouting resources to send someone to watch them play numerous times when you can send someone to the USC-UCLA game and scout like 15 different guys.

 

But at any rate, Buffalo sent scouts to at least two Wyoming games this season that we know of: the Oregon and Utah State games; those are the only ones that have been reported.

  Could be.  I think a scout is normally responsible for 10-12 college players per season.  Give or take.

[3rdand12]

55 minutes ago, Logic said:

Here are the two things that don't smell right about the Allen interest:

First, if the apple of your eye is Allen, who is widely believed to be the QB MOST in need of spending a year or two on the bench....then why trade away Tyrod Taylor? If you're picking a guy that you know needs to sit, you don't just give up a quality bridge QB on a good contract. And if you DO give him up, you go aggressively after one of the big name FA QBs (Bradford, Bridgewater, McCown, etc). The fact that the Bills both gave up Tyrod Taylor AND didn't go after a "Quality" bridge QB doesn't make sense in the context of drafting Allen.

Second, the Bills did not have scouts at a single one of Josh Allen's games this year! They had scouts at multiple games of Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield, Rudolph, Jackson, and Falk. But NO Bills scouts attended any Josh Allen games. Would they really give up a ton of assets to trade up for a kid that no one in the front office had seen play live and in person? That seems crazy to me!

 

Browns offered a deal Bills could not refuse . And that has yet to be fully understood. But you are respected with each other point about Bills/Allen

[RochesterRob]

2 minutes ago, GrizzReaper said:

 My worry is McD is the same coach who let Nasty Nate start 2 games... Hopefully he knows better than to take Allen. He did make a big mistake letting Peterman start a 2nd game.

  I think that will turn out to be apples and oranges if Allen should happen.  For starters if Allen is brought in to start opening day he would receive a lot more time with the coaches in OTA's and camp than a guy expected to be a backup going into the season.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

21 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

Buffalo has been scouting Allen for two years now. They did in fact go see one of his games in person this season but they can also glean just as much from watching his film from better angles than they’d get by being in the crowd.

 

That's contrary to what several experienced scouts have been heard to say, that they need to see a guy in person to see how the ball comes off his hand etc. 

Film is better for many things, but does not take the place of live scouting (not my opinion, what several scouts are on record as saying)

 

21 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

Regarding the bridge QB theory, there’s still QBs out there on the market and perhaps the front office is willing to take a step back in order to take a larger step forwards. Also, Allen could theoretically be ready to start in time for the regular season if need be. He has experience doing full field reads and playing under Center. It really depends on how long they think it’ll take to get his footwork right. You could make a decent argument that he’s closer to being ready for opening day than any of the QBs outside of Rosen honestly. I personally think Mayfield is more ready as well, but it’s debatable. 

 

Again, this does not match either 1) the need to rework footwork/mechanics - that takes time and repetition, put a guy in a game and he'll just revert 2) what people have said about Allen, including our own Buffalo716 - wander over to the College Football forum and look for his QB Film Room series.  For another example, look at Lance Zierlein's draft report.  He clearly likes Allen and feels he has a lot of positives, but do his "weaknesses" really scream "theoretically could be ready to start" to you?

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

I don't believe all the Josh Allen hype. I'm sticking with my initial stance. The Bills are trading up to #3 with Indy and will draft Josh Rosen.