Six Degrees of Separation - McBeane Edition

[MrEpsYtown]

Bear with me here, but I have been thinking about this for awhile. While we are in smokescreen season, I do think that all signs point to a trade up for the Bills. Typically, general managers and front office personnel are most comfortable making deals and having conversations with people they know and trust. There is a a lot of nepotism and good ole boys networks. It is one of the reasons Belichick traded Jimmy G. to San Francisco without even shopping him to anyone else. There is a ton cronyism that happens and I think this could benefit the Bills this year. How the top of this draft goes depends on three people: John Dorsey, David Gettelman, and Chris Ballard. Interestingly, all three are connected to McDermott and Gettleman is connected to McDermott and Beane. My basic premise here is that all of these guys can get together and make sure that the top four picks in the draft go the way they want them to go.

 

Dorsey, like McDermott, is an Andy Reid guy through and through. They go all the way back to the Green Bay Mike Holmgren days. They work for years together in Kansas City and McDermott was willing traded down 17 spots so that KC could get their quarterback of the future last year. They helped each other out. McDermott knew full well that KC was going up to get Mahomes, because they likely told him.  

 

Gettelman is connected to both McDermott and Beane. Our GM Beane was basically Gettleman's apprentice. Beane's success as a general manager should be important to Gettelman. He also has a working relationship with Sean McDermott.

 

Chris Ballard in Indy is also a KC Andy Reid guy. He hasn't been around as long, but basically was Dorsey's right hand man and apprentice in KC. He is a part of the coaching/front office tree.

 

So there are the connections. These guys can all get together and make the top of the draft go the way they want. Dorsey can take Barkley at 1 and assure himself Darnold at four by talking to Gettleman, Beane, and Ballard. Ballard can make sure he is going to get his hands on Chubb and can assure Dorsey he will not trade out. Beane could assure Dorsey that we are going to take Rosen so he can get Darnold at 4. GMs have conversations like this all of the time. Smokescreens are sent out a lot, but generally, people who know each other communicate about who they are going to pick. By engaging each other, they can control the top four of the draft and keep people like the Jets, Broncos, and Cards out of the top 4. Is it collusion? Kind of, but their is nothing wrong or illegal about it.
 

Now on to motivation.

 

The Browns should want to do this so that they can get Barkley at 1 and make sure they can get the quarterback they want at 4. The only issue with this is if the Bills and Browns want the same guy. However, with the Browns trade for Tyrod Taylor, I am assuming the Bills and Browns are looking for different things at the quarterback position.

 

The Giants should trade back. They have no offensive linemen and their defense is switching to a 3-4. They also have very little cap. They need all of the picks they can get. A trade back would help the Giants quickly get themselves back into contention. If they draft a quarterback, they are punting on the rest of Eli's career. If they know Dorsey is going to take Barkley, they may be more motivated to trade out.  

 

Indy needs to take Chubb They are switching to a 4-3 defense and their personnel does not fit. By engaging the other GMs at the top, Ballard can assure himself that Chubb will be there. If the Giants won't go for a trade down, Indy could consider it as well. Their offensive line is shoddy at best and their defensive transition is going to require different personnel.

 

These connections and conversations allow these GMs to dictate how the top of the draft is going to go. The Browns, Colts, and Bills can assure themselves "their guy" while the Giants can rebuild their team in one fell swoop.

Edited March 12, 2018 by MrEpsYtown

[Juice_32]

Plus, I heard Kevin Bacon is a Bills fan.

[Rc2catch]

I mean I get what you’re saying but at the same time these guys are paid millions of dollars for these decisions. Rather you have a past working relationship or not you don’t gamble your career on “my buddy gave his word he’s picking x player at x postition of the draft” 

The browns control this draft and how it plays out. 

I would not even be shocked the see them pick first and then jump right into #2 and just get their top 2 guys. It’s actually cheaper for them to jump into the second pick. 

We keep saying we can throw Glenn in for such great value to get into #2 but the browns have Joe Thomas who is either retiring or playing but could have great value as a toss in to the trade. 

Too many variables in this stuff, but one thing is for sure none of these guys actually take each other for their word. You don’t gamble your future on someone’s word. 

[JMF2006]

You connected more dots in one post than Dungkirk Don did in a 250 page thread  

[MrEpsYtown]

16 minutes ago, Rc2catch said:

I mean I get what you’re saying but at the same time these guys are paid millions of dollars for these decisions. Rather you have a past working relationship or not you don’t gamble your career on “my buddy gave his word he’s picking x player at x postition of the draft” 

The browns control this draft and how it plays out. 

I would not even be shocked the see them pick first and then jump right into #2 and just get their top 2 guys. It’s actually cheaper for them to jump into the second pick. 

We keep saying we can throw Glenn in for such great value to get into #2 but the browns have Joe Thomas who is either retiring or playing but could have great value as a toss in to the trade. 

Too many variables in this stuff, but one thing is for sure none of these guys actually take each other for their word. You don’t gamble your future on someone’s word. 

 

Thanks for the reply. 

 

I hear you, but these guys are professionals and they don't generally burn bridges. Andy Reid fired Sean McDermott and they still have a ton of love for each other. I think GMs talk openly with GMs they are connected to. I don't think they keep a ton of secrets from those they trust. 

 

To me, if you are the Browns and you talk to the people you know well, you don't have to trade up. you can just kind of wait. Just my 2 cents.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, MrEpsYtown said:

Bear with me here, but I have been thinking about this for awhile. While we are in smokescreen season, I do think that all signs point to a trade up for the Bills. Typically, general managers and front office personnel are most comfortable making deals and having conversations with people they know and trust. There is a a lot of nepotism and good ole boys networks. It is one of the reasons Belichick traded Jimmy G. to San Francisco without even shopping him to anyone else. There is a ton cronyism that happens and I think this could benefit the Bills this year. How the top of this draft goes depends on three people: John Dorsey, David Gettelman, and Chris Ballard. Interestingly, all three are connected to McDermott and Gettleman is connected to McDermott and Beane. My basic premise here is that all of these guys can get together and make sure that the top four picks in the draft go the way they want them to go.

 

Dorsey, like McDermott, is an Andy Reid guy through and through. They go all the way back to the Green Bay Mike Holmgren days. They work for years together in Kansas City and McDermott was willing traded down 17 spots so that KC could get their quarterback of the future last year. They helped each other out. McDermott knew full well that KC was going up to get Mahomes, because they likely told him.  

 

Gettelman is connected to both McDermott and Beane. Our GM Beane was basically Gettleman's apprentice. Beane's success as a general manager should be important to Gettelman. He also has a working relationship with Sean McDermott.

 

Chris Ballard in Indy is also a KC Andy Reid guy. He hasn't been around as long, but basically was Dorsey's right hand man and apprentice in KC. He is a part of the coaching/front office tree.

 

So there are the connections. These guys can all get together and make the top of the draft go the way they want. Dorsey can take Barkley at 1 and assure himself Darnold at four by talking to Gettleman, Beane, and Ballard. Ballard can make sure he is going to get his hands on Chubb and can assure Dorsey he will not trade out. Beane could assure Dorsey that we are going to take Rosen so he can get Darnold at 4. GMs have conversations like this all of the time. Smokescreens are sent out a lot, but generally, people who know each other communicate about who they are going to pick. By engaging each other, they can control the top four of the draft and eep people like the Jets, Broncos, and Cards out of the top 4. Is it collusion? Kind of, but their is nothing wrong or illegal about it.
 

Now on to motivation.

 

The Browns should want to do this so that they can get Barkley at 1 and make sure they can get the quarterback they want at 4. The only issue with this is if the Bills and Browns want the same guy. However, with the Browns trade for Tyrod Taylor, I am assuming the Bills and Browns are looking for different things at the quarterback position.

 

The Giants should trade back. They have no offensive linemen and their defense is switching to a 3-4. They need all of the picks they can get. A trade back would help the Giants quickly get themselves back into contention. If they draft a quarterback, they are punting on the rest of Eli's career. If they know Dorsey is going to take Barkley, they may be more motivated to trade out.  

 

Indy needs to take Chubb They are switching to a 4-3 defense and their personnel does not fit. By engaging the other GMs at the top, Ballard can assure himself that Chubb will be there. If the Giants won't go for a trade down, Indy could consider it as well. Their offensive line is shoddy at best and their defensive transition is going to require different personnel.

 

These connections and conversations allow these GMs to dictate how the top of the draft is going to go. The Browns, Colts, and Bills can assure themselves "their guy" while the Giants can rebuild their team in one fell swoop.

 

I just want to express appreciation for putting some thought and effort into all this.  I think it's mistaken - best friends turn into fierce competitors on the HS basketball court, much less as GMs of rival teams - but there's also something to the thought of doing business where you're connected.

[Manther]

So, to the OP, you are saying the Giants are the team trading out with the Bills?  Or it could be a any of them trading out?

 

I do think the network controlling the top of the draft is interesting as it is not usually the case.  The case being that the top of the draft is all part of one network and have different needs.

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

1 hour ago, MrEpsYtown said:

Bear with me here, but I have been thinking about this for awhile. While we are in smokescreen season, I do think that all signs point to a trade up for the Bills. Typically, general managers and front office personnel are most comfortable making deals and having conversations with people they know and trust. There is a a lot of nepotism and good ole boys networks. It is one of the reasons Belichick traded Jimmy G. to San Francisco without even shopping him to anyone else. There is a ton cronyism that happens and I think this could benefit the Bills this year. How the top of this draft goes depends on three people: John Dorsey, David Gettelman, and Chris Ballard. Interestingly, all three are connected to McDermott and Gettleman is connected to McDermott and Beane. My basic premise here is that all of these guys can get together and make sure that the top four picks in the draft go the way they want them to go.

 

Dorsey, like McDermott, is an Andy Reid guy through and through. They go all the way back to the Green Bay Mike Holmgren days. They work for years together in Kansas City and McDermott was willing traded down 17 spots so that KC could get their quarterback of the future last year. They helped each other out. McDermott knew full well that KC was going up to get Mahomes, because they likely told him.  

 

Gettelman is connected to both McDermott and Beane. Our GM Beane was basically Gettleman's apprentice. Beane's success as a general manager should be important to Gettelman. He also has a working relationship with Sean McDermott.

 

Chris Ballard in Indy is also a KC Andy Reid guy. He hasn't been around as long, but basically was Dorsey's right hand man and apprentice in KC. He is a part of the coaching/front office tree.

 

So there are the connections. These guys can all get together and make the top of the draft go the way they want. Dorsey can take Barkley at 1 and assure himself Darnold at four by talking to Gettleman, Beane, and Ballard. Ballard can make sure he is going to get his hands on Chubb and can assure Dorsey he will not trade out. Beane could assure Dorsey that we are going to take Rosen so he can get Darnold at 4. GMs have conversations like this all of the time. Smokescreens are sent out a lot, but generally, people who know each other communicate about who they are going to pick. By engaging each other, they can control the top four of the draft and keep people like the Jets, Broncos, and Cards out of the top 4. Is it collusion? Kind of, but their is nothing wrong or illegal about it.
 

Now on to motivation.

 

The Browns should want to do this so that they can get Barkley at 1 and make sure they can get the quarterback they want at 4. The only issue with this is if the Bills and Browns want the same guy. However, with the Browns trade for Tyrod Taylor, I am assuming the Bills and Browns are looking for different things at the quarterback position.

 

The Giants should trade back. They have no offensive linemen and their defense is switching to a 3-4. They also have very little cap. They need all of the picks they can get. A trade back would help the Giants quickly get themselves back into contention. If they draft a quarterback, they are punting on the rest of Eli's career. If they know Dorsey is going to take Barkley, they may be more motivated to trade out.  

 

Indy needs to take Chubb They are switching to a 4-3 defense and their personnel does not fit. By engaging the other GMs at the top, Ballard can assure himself that Chubb will be there. If the Giants won't go for a trade down, Indy could consider it as well. Their offensive line is shoddy at best and their defensive transition is going to require different personnel.

 

These connections and conversations allow these GMs to dictate how the top of the draft is going to go. The Browns, Colts, and Bills can assure themselves "their guy" while the Giants can rebuild their team in one fell swoop.

Nice work. Glad you've come to my way of thinking on this. I've been saying this since the Taylor trade. It is all a very plausible scenario, maybe the most likely one imo. We have to remember there are many other variables  and scenarios, many of which are truly random, yet to play out. Let's hope for the best!

[MrEpsYtown]

5 minutes ago, Manther said:

So, to the OP, you are saying the Giants are the team trading out with the Bills?  Or it could be a any of them trading out?

 

I do think the network controlling the top of the draft is interesting as it is not usually the case.  The case being that the top of the draft is all part of one network and have different needs.

 

My initial thought is the Giants because they have some great players and no depth. With the defensive scheme switch, no offensive line,  and very little in the way of cap space or draft picks, I think they are the most likely team to trade down. I mean if the Browns take Barkley and you aren't going quarterback what do you do? A guard? Chubb?  

 

But I suppose it could be any of them. I'm not sure the Browns will, but I could see the Colts doing it because they are also dealing with a scheme change. However, with a new staff  and a good amount of cap space, there is no sense of urgency. The Giants are still in a window of contention in my opinion. 

[Bob in STL]

I’m torn between moving way up get a top qb prospect or keeping the picks and adding lots more talent.  

 

We we need a talent infusion at OL, DL, AND LB.  We need help at WR and CB, we need depth in other places.  Free agency can help if played smartly.  

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 12, 2018 by Bob in STL

[lookylookyherecomescookie]

30 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

My initial thought is the Giants because they have some great players and no depth. With the defensive scheme switch, no offensive line,  and very little in the way of cap space or draft picks, I think they are the most likely team to trade down. I mean if the Browns take Barkley and you aren't going quarterback what do you do? A guard? Chubb?  

 

But I suppose it could be any of them. I'm not sure the Browns will, but I could see the Colts doing it because they are also dealing with a scheme change. However, with a new staff  and a good amount of cap space, there is no sense of urgency. The Giants are still in a window of contention in my opinion. 

You hit it!   Gm's working together can accomplish more than competing against each other, as long as their needs and goals don't conflict. This draft is an odd confluence where it will happen.

[MrEpsYtown]

13 hours ago, lookylookyherecomescookie said:

You hit it!   Gm's working together can accomplish more than competing against each other, as long as their needs and goals don't conflict. This draft is an odd confluence where it will happen.

 

I think this makes a lot of sense. If you are Cleveland why wouldn't you talk to those other guys about who they are going to pick so you know that you can draft Barkley at 1 and take your qb at 4. If you are Bills and trading up with the Giants, why wouldn't you talk about the picks, to try and assure that you are going to get the guy you want at #2? 

 

I really think these guys can get teh top of the draft to go exactly they way they want it to go. 

[simool]

Can someone give me the cliff notes version of the OP? I have a beers consumed - reading comprehension ratio that I am at least 3 beers past...