JinxedBill1 Posted March 11, 2018 Posted March 11, 2018 2 hours ago, CuddyDark said: I wanted the Bills to trade 3 1st for Wentz. Luck. Eli Manning. Cam Newton. Well sure. What I meant was that all prospects are compared to others until they are not once they make it. I think we do a disservice comparing them to others. If this coaching staff thinks a guy can be a franchise QB, no matter the comparisons, then go get him. That's what the Eagles did. And I'm with you, Wientz looked really good last year. Rosen is the only one who comes close for me in this draft.
OldTimer1960 Posted March 11, 2018 Posted March 11, 2018 2 minutes ago, Perry Turtle said: Whether you trade up or not is irrelevant. What really matters is that the front office is good enough to identify a franchise QB in the draft. Philadelphia's front office was good enough to recognize Wentz as a legit franchise QB. Cleveland's front office wasn't. If you believe that Beane's front office has the ability to identify a franchise QB in the draft, then you shouldn't worry about the Bills trading up. If you don't believe that Beane can't identify a franchise QB in the draft, then you hope he stays out and keeps the draft picks. At the same time though, you should hope that Beane is replaced, because who wants a GM who can't fill the most important position on the team (see Whaley). I don’t think it is that simple. No draftee is a sure thing and no front office is infallible in their evaluation. It DOES matter a lot how much you have to invest to take a shot on a QB.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted March 11, 2018 Posted March 11, 2018 59 minutes ago, mannc said: I did not say “stay put”. I said, don’t panic and overpay to move up. I’m convinced there will be opportunities to land someone good without giving up a king’s ransom. let's be frank. you're wrong, and here's why: Above us, there's at LEAST 5 teams that need a QB. At least. You'll have to move up, and far, to leapfrog them all.
Awwufelloff Posted March 11, 2018 Posted March 11, 2018 (edited) Get your franchise QB and everything else falls into place. At the very least you will be competitive each year. Whoever is against moving up in the draft for a franchise QB doesn't understand how the NFL works. There are always top notch players in FA that you can get to fill out a team if you have the cap. When does a top 10 QB hit the FA market during their prime? NEVER! Go up and get the guy, don't care what it takes. Give me a Brady, Big Ben, Wentz, Goff, Luck (injuries derailed him), Ryan, Manning, Newton, Brees, Rodgers, Wilson, Rivers. I'll take my luck with one of these guys at QB with nobodies surrounding them. Once we get that guy we have 15 years of draft picks/trades/FA to fill out our line-up. QB is the only position in the NFL in which you can only get the top guys in the draft. We got a top 5 RB from a trade, you think we could do the same for a top 5 QB? Edited March 11, 2018 by Awwufelloff
PromoTheRobot Posted March 11, 2018 Posted March 11, 2018 2 hours ago, joesixpack said: Question: is a franchise that hasn’t had a real qb in 20 years not the definition of desperate? And I would argue moves made from thay desperation contributed to the drought. Drafting EJ? Trading up for JP Losman? Your post also suggests that the ONLY reason the drought happened was a lack of a QB. I can assure it was for many reasons beyond QB. 1
Boatdrinks Posted March 11, 2018 Posted March 11, 2018 2 hours ago, joesixpack said: Question: is a franchise that hasn’t had a real qb in 20 years not the definition of desperate? Nope. Mc Dermott and Beane aren't worried about the last 20 years. They're on a 1 year playoff streak.
Mat68 Posted March 11, 2018 Posted March 11, 2018 Darnold and Rosen both look like successfull NFL Qbs. I would try to get one of them.
RochesterRob Posted March 11, 2018 Posted March 11, 2018 1 hour ago, Boatdrinks said: Nope. Mc Dermott and Beane aren't worried about the last 20 years. They're on a 1 year playoff streak. Exactly. People are being ridiculous in expecting the current staff to be accountable for regimes that have been gone in some cases decades. The Bills were not the Steelers of the 1970's, the 49'ers of the 1980's, the Cowboys of the 1990's, etc and no amount of whining is going to change the history of this team.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted March 11, 2018 Posted March 11, 2018 3 hours ago, RochesterRob said: The Chargers while Rivers has been there have never been a team that I would say were likely to be conference champs w/o few fortunate happenings along the way. The guys who think too much is not enough to pay and are desperate that if they went to Seneca-Niagara or Del Lago they would be the ones rehearsing their speech to the wife as to why they can't make the next car and mortgage payment. Then they go to their buddies' houses for the next two and half weeks until the wife cools off and borrows the money from her parents. Rest comfortably knowing that 2019 is not already out the window because Beane did not act like a riverboat gambler with those picks. Because 2019 is all that matters?
GoBills808 Posted March 11, 2018 Posted March 11, 2018 1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said: And I would argue moves made from thay desperation contributed to the drought. Drafting EJ? Trading up for JP Losman? Your post also suggests that the ONLY reason the drought happened was a lack of a QB. I can assure it was for many reasons beyond QB. I think the larger point is that without hitting on a true blue-chip franchise-type prospect (and those are at or near the top of the draft nowadays), you end up mired in the Manuel/Losmans of the draft world OR the Taylors of the FA route, neither of which lead to success. You must be willing to get a top QB, which means trading a bunch of capital for a guy you like. It's risky but it's much more likely than hitting on a Wilson in the 3rd.
OldTimer1960 Posted March 11, 2018 Posted March 11, 2018 1 minute ago, GoBills808 said: I think the larger point is that without hitting on a true blue-chip franchise-type prospect (and those are at or near the top of the draft nowadays), you end up mired in the Manuel/Losmans of the draft world OR the Taylors of the FA route, neither of which lead to success. You must be willing to get a top QB, which means trading a bunch of capital for a guy you like. It's risky but it's much more likely than hitting on a Wilson in the 3rd. But who are the top QBs in the league? Brady 6th round, Brees 2nd round, Rodgers - late first, Roethlisberger- 11th pick, Wilson -3rd,.... Finding a very good QB is very hard to do. Just trading a lot to move up does not guarantee anything. 1
Augie Posted March 11, 2018 Posted March 11, 2018 6 hours ago, JinxedBill1 said: Here come the "no weintz in this draft" crowd. To to which I say who was weintz before weintz? Is this a reincarnation question? I’m not sure if that’s appropriate here. I’m good with going all in if they really like a guy, and while they may not be perfect, I’ll trust them over us. After all, WE don’t get fired if it goes poorly.
PromoTheRobot Posted March 11, 2018 Posted March 11, 2018 11 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: I think the larger point is that without hitting on a true blue-chip franchise-type prospect (and those are at or near the top of the draft nowadays), you end up mired in the Manuel/Losmans of the draft world OR the Taylors of the FA route, neither of which lead to success. You must be willing to get a top QB, which means trading a bunch of capital for a guy you like. It's risky but it's much more likely than hitting on a Wilson in the 3rd. Manual was the first drafted in a class where every QB was crap. But still There were people who spoke of Geno Smith, Ryan Nassib and others like they talk about QBs every year.
GoBills808 Posted March 11, 2018 Posted March 11, 2018 13 minutes ago, OldTimer1960 said: But who are the top QBs in the league? Brady 6th round, Brees 2nd round, Rodgers - late first, Roethlisberger- 11th pick, Wilson -3rd,.... Finding a very good QB is very hard to do. Just trading a lot to move up does not guarantee anything. Two of them were Goff and Wentz. 6 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said: Manual was the first drafted in a class where every QB was crap. But still There were people who spoke of Geno Smith, Ryan Nassib and others like they talk about QBs every year. Manuel was a trade down in a well-known weak class...and I don't think that should have any bearing on whether or not to make a big move up.
OldTimer1960 Posted March 11, 2018 Posted March 11, 2018 Just now, GoBills808 said: Two of them were Goff and Wentz. After Goff’s rookie year folks were laughing at the Rams for trading up to get him. He might be good, but needs a lot of talent around him to succeed (as do most QBs). In other words, give up many picks to move up for a QB and watch them fall if you can’t surround them with decent talent.
FearLess Price Posted March 12, 2018 Posted March 12, 2018 Look at all the doomsday fans losing it. Bet they arent saying sht rite now. Too busy eating superbowl horse sht in a fog of hooliganisim
Reed83HOF Posted March 12, 2018 Posted March 12, 2018 3 hours ago, OldTimer1960 said: After Goff’s rookie year folks were laughing at the Rams for trading up to get him. He might be good, but needs a lot of talent around him to succeed (as do most QBs). In other words, give up many picks to move up for a QB and watch them fall if you can’t surround them with decent talent. We do have $40 million this year to spend under the cap this year and $97 million or so next year - i think we will be okay. Also the trade up will most likely preserve picks next year & from the looks of it we should have a few compensatory picks tossed in as well...
Lfod Posted March 12, 2018 Posted March 12, 2018 (edited) I'll just leave this for a thought. The Eagles got far with Wentz no doubt. They ended the run and finished in the big show with a back up QB. So that had to be a team and system effort. The drop in QB play didn't effect the end result. I think that problem will be solved for the Bills soon. I just have a feeling HC trust his OC. He needs to find his other half. Hopefully it is Daboll. I think we got lucky with Brandon Beane. He might of been a runner up in South Carolina. Type of guy that's on his way up but people still just leeching his talent till he ends up in a place he gets authority and really break out. Edited March 12, 2018 by Lfod
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