ColdFront_USAF Posted March 11, 2018 Posted March 11, 2018 This is going to end up being a lengthy post, so: TL/DR: move up and draft a qb With that out of the way, I wanted to make a counter-argument for one of the most popular phrases I've seen both on the message boards and on any social media concerning the Bills. The "We have too many holes" argument. A ton of fans seem to think the best approach to the 2018 draft is to sit back, enjoy our 6 high picks, and fill out the many holes that we have on this roster. I actually agree with part of this, as there is no denying that despite a playoff appearance last season, we really do have a ton of needs. We need a quarterback, 1-2 wide receivers, possibly a 3rd running back, at least one offensive lineman, and damn near an entire front 7. Sitting back at 21 and 22 and taking a need based BPA approach makes logical sense, as we could be a much more complete team heading into the next season. That being said, there are just too many reasons to take your shot this year and obtain the elusive franchise quarterback. Rebuilding a team is not a 1 year thing It's crazy to me how few fans seem to understand this. Just because the Eagles "rebuilt" in two years en-route to a Lombardi doesn't mean every team can do this. Not only did they make a blockbuster trade to acquire their franchise passer, they also had a very good team build around them beforehand. So good, that their backup qb (who is very good but not elite) was able to beat Tom Brady and the fabled Patriots in the biggest game of the year. We absolutely do not have the talent that they do, so we are not build for the same kind of turn-around. It's going to take time. Quarterbacks have the biggest impact They might have the biggest impact from a single position in all of sports. Not only can they allow you to score quickly when necessary, a true franchise passer can impact every stage of the game from the pocket. They can allow receivers to do what they do best with the ball in their hands. They force the safeties out of the box to let guys like McCoy run rampant. They convert key 3rd downs to give the defense more time to rest. Hell, they even often give the punter some help by having a greater chance of moving up the field a bit before punting as opposed to a 3 and out from the 25. One player can conceivably have a bigger team impact than 5 skill position players taken in the first 3 rounds. Draft classes like this do not come often Many say there are no standout quarterbacks in this class. Well, that's because there are 3-4 (depending on how you feel about Allen) who all have a chance at being top 5 guys, and it's hard to standout among that kind of talent. Make no mistake, this may be the best qb class in a very, very long time, and this opportunity won't come again soon. Just because there is no Manning or Luck in this years class does not at all mean there is nobody worth selling the farm to get. EJ should be a lesson learned Loading the team with talent now seems great short term, but that means our options will be taking a retread from another team, or drafting a quarterback next year in a weak class. That's exactly how we ended up taking EJ Manuel, one of the worst quarterbacks I've ever seen in this league. You can't force this kind of thing, take them when they are available. The other options are bandaids, not long term answers When I first thought of making this post, Tyrod was still a Bill and Cousins was still a possibility. That is no longer the case, so our options are much more limited. The options are now: Foles, Keenum/Bradford/Bridgewater, or a true placeholder like Anderson or McCown. Foles would require draft picks anyways, so that should scare off anyone afraid to trade up and lose picks. Keenum was a one year wonder on an extremely talented team loaded with weapons, and the other two Vikings are a good hit away from seeing Peterman get another start. Unless you've been busy with high level business meetings, you really shouldn't want to see that. Lastly, this team is set up to explode in 2019/20 Assuming we end up with our franchise passer, 2019 could really be our year. Dareus' stupid contract is off the books. Wood's contract will be gone as well, along with Kyle, and probably Clay, among others. If we can avoid sending next years picks, we will have a full draft as well as a ton of cap space to build this team around our shiny new quarterback. To me, that step backward in 2018 seems much more enticing than dumpster diving for a qb on a team that's a passer away from being a legit contender. If you're one of the "too many holes guys", I'd love to debate that. Lets take the shot this year and get what we haven't had since Kelly. 7 2
Buffalo Ballin Posted March 11, 2018 Posted March 11, 2018 I'm not the "too many holes" guy. I agree with you. We have to trade up no matter what to get Rosen/Mayfield/Allen/Dahnold. What Beane said is a bunch of BS. We're not staying pat if one those guys is our target. We can't. Those guys will be gone by the time we pick. I'm still down to draft Lamar Jackson. I think he's available if Beane chooses to stay with the 21 and 22 pick.
ColdFront_USAF Posted March 11, 2018 Author Posted March 11, 2018 18 minutes ago, Buffalo Ballin said: I'm not the "too many holes" guy. I agree with you. We have to trade up no matter what to get Rosen/Mayfield/Allen/Dahnold. What Beane said is a bunch of BS. We're not staying pat if one those guys is our target. We can't. Those guys will be gone by the time we pick. I'm still down to draft Lamar Jackson. I think he's available if Beane chooses to stay with the 21 and 22 pick. I wouldn't be upset with Lamar. I trust this front office for once, if they think he's a franchise guy I'm all in. My gut still says Darnald Rosen or Mayfield though, Allen if they believe they can fix his accuracy problems. 1
Buddo Posted March 11, 2018 Posted March 11, 2018 Tbh, the one actual 'deciding' point in all of the above, is that draft classes like this one (for QBs), don't come around that often. Hopefully, the likes of Gettleman, aren't paying too much attention to that notion, as it's the ideal time for the Giants to take and groom Mannings successor.
ColdFront_USAF Posted March 11, 2018 Author Posted March 11, 2018 13 minutes ago, Buddo said: Tbh, the one actual 'deciding' point in all of the above, is that draft classes like this one (for QBs), don't come around that often. Hopefully, the likes of Gettleman, aren't paying too much attention to that notion, as it's the ideal time for the Giants to take and groom Mannings successor. Completely agree. I think the other factors are all relevant, but the strength of the class makes moving up a "must" in my opinion. If we're lucky, the Giants might think they can get 3 or 4 more years out of Eli which could give them time to find another prospect they like. If I were them I'd take one now and develop.
GunnerBill Posted March 11, 2018 Posted March 11, 2018 ... is a pathetic argument propagated by those with negative attitudes. 3
BuffaloBillyG Posted March 11, 2018 Posted March 11, 2018 I am a guy that says we have too many holes to fill. I do think that filling the team with lower cost high potential draftees is a great way to build a team to compete for the long haul. I also freely acknowledge that there is more than 1 way to build a football team and really no 1 way is guaranteed to be successful or fail. That being said, if Beane moves up to grab the guy he wants...good! If he moves to 2 and grabs his guy...awesome. One less hole to fill. 8 for Mayfield? Awesome! Whatever the plan is I fully support. We do still have FA to fill some of the holes and hey, just checked and there is another draft next year to fill even more. Whatever happens, whatever we give up or whatever we keep I think the one thing most can agree on is that it is necessary that the Buffalo Bills leave draft weekend with the QB of the future. 1
Seanbillsfan2206 Posted March 11, 2018 Posted March 11, 2018 1 hour ago, GunnerBill said: ... is a pathetic argument propagated by those with negative attitudes. This sounds like a negative attitude 1
Green Lightning Posted March 11, 2018 Posted March 11, 2018 The OP is right on target. Remember our past GM Marv Levy telling us we have to get better around the quarterback not a quarterback? It just doesn't work.
TPS Posted March 11, 2018 Posted March 11, 2018 I’ll let you know if I’m in the too many holes to fill camp after this week, as they will fill some of them.
The_Dude Posted March 11, 2018 Posted March 11, 2018 I cannot stand the ‘lets not trade up for a QB because we need a center,’ guys. Idiots. Old school, outdated, idiotic thinking.
Fetou Posted March 11, 2018 Posted March 11, 2018 (edited) I think the Bills should pretty much convert this draft into the #2 pick, and immediately start the QB selected. Deal whatever is needed to avoid giving up the 2019 first. Leave the team with many holes in important spots with and a rookie QB to struggle, post a poor record, and use the 2019 draft to shore up talent at the most needed positions, potentially with a blockbuster trade down of our own. From that point, we will ideally have an up-and-coming QB and a ton of cap space with some good young players to develop. #21, #22, #53, #56, #65, Glenn, 2019 3rd, all for #2. Stay quiet in free agency this year, let young players start over veterans. Edited March 11, 2018 by Fetou
Fetou Posted March 11, 2018 Posted March 11, 2018 1 minute ago, bmur66 said: Fill the big hole first. Lol Pound that hole until it doesn't even look like a hole anymore. 3
jaybee Posted March 11, 2018 Posted March 11, 2018 OK, I'll respectfully disagree. I'd rather they lose picks for a proven Vet rather than losing picks and playing Russian roulette on a high probability draft bust. We've seen that movie too many times. I'd go get a vet but I would also draft whomever is left that fits our scheme as a developmental project. Giving away the farm for a "might be good" QB isnt a good idea IMHO. Its just an opinion so please dont jump off a cliff fellas.
Rk_Bills86 Posted March 11, 2018 Posted March 11, 2018 Frankly, it doesn't matter if we trade up and draft a QB if he has no one worth throwing to and the OC doesn't develop around the QBs strengths. I will say that our WR group is interesting and probably underrated if you had someone monster pure pocket passer throwing to them. That being said, a good OC can take a turd and make it look like a diamond - RG3. Tyrod may never be Brady or Rivers or Brees, but he was grossly misused in our offense for 2 of his 3 years. I do think that this year is a good year to trade up due to the amount of picks we have AND having Glenn as an additional bargaining chip. Moving to #2 would be hard, but the Giants are really in need of an o-line. If the Browns go RB at 1, i think the bills could trade one their 1st,2nd,3rd this year + Glenn or both 1st rounds and Glenn for the jump up. I would also be ok with Bridgewater, Keenum, or Foles (I would trade a 2nd and 3rd for Foles without hesitation).
prissythecat Posted March 11, 2018 Posted March 11, 2018 39 minutes ago, Fetou said: I think the Bills should pretty much convert this draft into the #2 pick, and immediately start the QB selected. Deal whatever is needed to avoid giving up the 2019 first. Leave the team with many holes in important spots with and a rookie QB to struggle, post a poor record, and use the 2019 draft to shore up talent at the most needed positions, potentially with a blockbuster trade down of our own. From that point, we will ideally have an up-and-coming QB and a ton of cap space with some good young players to develop. #21, #22, #53, #56, #65, Glenn, 2019 3rd, all for #2. Stay quiet in free agency this year, let young players start over veterans. I see you are a disciple of the Mike Ditka draft philosophy. Nice.
Fetou Posted March 11, 2018 Posted March 11, 2018 3 minutes ago, prissythecat said: I see you are a disciple of the Mike Ditka draft philosophy. Nice. Because Josh Rosen is a running back. Brilliant
prissythecat Posted March 11, 2018 Posted March 11, 2018 1 minute ago, Fetou said: Because Josh Rosen is a running back. Brilliant Giving up six draft picks to move up is brilliant .
Rico Posted March 11, 2018 Posted March 11, 2018 44 minutes ago, Fetou said: I think the Bills should pretty much convert this draft into the #2 pick, and immediately start the QB selected. Deal whatever is needed to avoid giving up the 2019 first. Leave the team with many holes in important spots with and a rookie QB to struggle, post a poor record, and use the 2019 draft to shore up talent at the most needed positions, potentially with a blockbuster trade down of our own. From that point, we will ideally have an up-and-coming QB and a ton of cap space with some good young players to develop. #21, #22, #53, #56, #65, Glenn, 2019 3rd, all for #2. Stay quiet in free agency this year, let young players start over veterans. Yep. Our #1 this year and all the extra draft picks we picked up are reserved for the trade-up, the only question is how much more will be added. Posters can opine all they want about who they will take at #21, #22, #56, and now #65, but I choose not to pay them any attention at all. Dare to be great, MBeane!
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