DriveFor1Outta5 Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 1 minute ago, Zebrastripes said: The big difference is you cant ruin a guy by letting him learn as much as he can in a back up role. You most certainly can ruin a guy by starting him prematurely. What about all of the current franchise QB’s who started from day one? If early struggles can mentally destroy a young QB, he never had the makeup to be a legit NFL QB. Phillip Rivers entire career has been a struggle, but he’s still a top flight QB. He hasn’t let a crappy franchise destroy his abilities. He might not be winning titles, but he hasn’t busted out of the league. NFL coaches can be stupidly conservative. How does starting a backup level QB benefit a team over starting a guy who could be the next Peyton Manning? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boca BIlls Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 Exactly, it doesn't. That is why when a coach says "I will sit my rookie" all the sudden a few games into the season the rookie gets shoved in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DriveFor1Outta5 Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 4 minutes ago, Not at the table Karlos said: Completley disagree with this. Some players need to sit and learn. A lot come from offenses that don't translate to the pros or have issues with their footwork or throwing motion. Throwing a guy in that isn't ready can ruin a player. . How many successful NFL QB’s actually come from college offenses that don’t translate to the pros? This is why scouts love this QB class. There are several pro style QB’s. The only time college style QB’s succeed are when pro coaches become wise enough to use that offense on Sunday. Sitting on the bench doesn’t help with that imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zebrastripes Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 1 minute ago, DriveFor1Outta5 said: What about all of the current franchise QB’s who started from day one? If early struggles can mentally destroy a young QB, he never had the makeup to be a legit NFL QB. Phillip Rivers entire career has been a struggle, but he’s still a top flight QB. He hasn’t let a crappy franchise destroy his abilities. He might not be winning titles, but he hasn’t busted out of the league. NFL coaches can be stupidly conservative. How does starting a backup level QB benefit a team over starting a guy who could be the next Peyton Manning? You have to follow the whole conversation from the beginning. I was only stating sit a rookie if he wasn't mentally ready for the game. Whether it be needing a little more time to diagnose a defense or learn the terminology of the offense. Let me ask you this. Have you ever started a job that you were not first trained how to do that job? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 12 hours ago, Steptide said: Obviously with Tyrod gone, we only have Peterman left. My guess is the bills will draft a qb high AND sign a vet qb Which makes me wonder, do they automatically start a high drafted rookie, start the vet as a bridge or have an all out qb competition? Personally, I hope they have a competition. While I want whoever they draft to be our long term future, I also want to play the best qb this year. What say you It depends on who they draft. Baker and Rosen have a chance to start day 1. The other guys need anywhere from a few weeks to a redshirt year IMO. The number of starts that the vet they sign gets depends on the player. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boca BIlls Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 Just now, Zebrastripes said: You have to follow the whole conversation from the beginning. I was only stating sit a rookie if he wasn't mentally ready for the game. Whether it be needing a little more time to diagnose a defense or learn the terminology of the offense. Let me ask you this. Have you ever started a job that you were not first trained how to do that job? Training doesn't last that long... That is called Training Camp. And usually when an employee still can't get it after the training they don't last long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not at the table Karlos Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 Just now, Boca BIlls said: Will only ruin them if they were never meant to be a starter in the first place. Throughout these guys lives they hire coaches to get them ready for the NFL. By this time in their life they are either ready to face NFL or they aren't. No. Some people mature and learn at different rates. Look up what some players say about coaches. A lot don't teach the basics. They just try to make sure they understand the game plan for that week. Aaron rodgers had to re do his throwing motion sitting behind Favre. It takes time to re-learn things. Pat mahomes had a leg that had a mind of its own he needed to sit and learn to control it. Not everybody is ready at the same time. Hell it took rich Gannon most of his career to finally become a good qb. 3 minutes ago, DriveFor1Outta5 said: How many successful NFL QB’s actually come from college offenses that don’t translate to the pros? This is why scouts love this QB class. There are several pro style QB’s. The only time college style QB’s succeed are when pro coaches become wise enough to use that offense on Sunday. Sitting on the bench doesn’t help with that imo. Sitting on the bench doesn't help with learning a new offense? Ooooook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zebrastripes Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 1 minute ago, Boca BIlls said: Training doesn't last that long... That is called Training Camp. And usually when an employee still can't get it after the training they don't last long. Difference is the NFL qb position has a lot more to take in then most other jobs out there so the training window may be larger. Training camp is a joke too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not at the table Karlos Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 9 minutes ago, DriveFor1Outta5 said: What about all of the current franchise QB’s who started from day one? If early struggles can mentally destroy a young QB, he never had the makeup to be a legit NFL QB. Phillip Rivers entire career has been a struggle, but he’s still a top flight QB. He hasn’t let a crappy franchise destroy his abilities. He might not be winning titles, but he hasn’t busted out of the league. NFL coaches can be stupidly conservative. How does starting a backup level QB benefit a team over starting a guy who could be the next Peyton Manning? Rivers sat behind Brees. Hmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boca BIlls Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 Just now, Not at the table Karlos said: No. Some people mature and learn at different rates. Look up what some players say about coaches. A lot don't teach the basics. They just try to make sure they understand the game plan for that week. Aaron rodgers had to re do his throwing motion sitting behind Favre. It takes time to re-learn things. Pat mahomes had a leg that had a mind of its own he needed to sit and learn to control it. Not everybody is ready at the same time. Hell it took rich Gannon most of his career to finally become a good qb. Mahomes is still the same player no matter what. Rodgers would have started immediately if not for being behind a HoF QB, Gannon never really was a good QB he just had a good year like most average QBs do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DriveFor1Outta5 Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 2 minutes ago, Zebrastripes said: You have to follow the whole conversation from the beginning. I was only stating sit a rookie if he wasn't mentally ready for the game. Whether it be needing a little more time to diagnose a defense or learn the terminology of the offense. Let me ask you this. Have you ever started a job that you were not first trained how to do that job? Hopefullly college serves its purpose to prepare one for their career. Playing QB should be similar. Big time college football isn’t low level stuff. Highly touted college QB’s are often ready to start in the pros on day one. With that said, sometimes college doesn’t prepare us for our careers very well. I’ve had jobs that I wasn’t properly trained for, but I eventually learned how to do my job. Being ill prepared never “destroyed” my career, or ability to improve. I’m simply responding to the idea that starting a guy too soon can ruin his career. I think this idea is relic of traditional coaching that should have been disproved by this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boca BIlls Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 (edited) People might not like it is true. This is why rookie QBs don't actually sit even when the HCs say they will. The HC thinks he can get by with a guy like Tyrod then will quickly realize whoops better throw the rookie in. Hue might not do that b.c he doesn't mind losing in a place like Cleveland. When the QB does start that is the only time he will really be able to learn if he can play QB or not. Edited March 11, 2018 by Boca BIlls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zebrastripes Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Boca BIlls said: People might not like it is true. This is why rookie QBs don't actually sit even when the HCs say they will. The HC thinks he can get by with a guy like Tyrod then will quickly realize whoops better throw the rookie in. Hue might not do that b.c he doesn't mind losing in a place like Cleveland. No coaches just panic and try to catch lighting in a bottle to save their own job. 6 minutes ago, DriveFor1Outta5 said: Hopefullly college serves its purpose to prepare one for their career. Playing QB should be similar. Big time college football isn’t low level stuff. Highly touted college QB’s are often ready to start in the pros on day one. With that said, sometimes college doesn’t prepare us for our careers very well. I’ve had jobs that I wasn’t properly trained for, but I eventually learned how to do my job. Being ill prepared never “destroyed” my career, or ability to improve. I’m simply responding to the idea that starting a guy too soon can ruin his career. I think this idea is relic of traditional coaching that should have been disproved by this point. Difference being you get 4 years in college learning about what you're going to be doing in your job. A college qb may be coming from a completely different system then he is going to be playing in at the NFL level. Therefore he basically needs to learn everything over again just like his first day of college. Edited March 11, 2018 by Zebrastripes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not at the table Karlos Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 3 minutes ago, Boca BIlls said: Mahomes is still the same player no matter what. Rodgers would have started immediately if not for being behind a HoF QB, Gannon never really was a good QB he just had a good year like most average QBs do. Mahomes seems to have calmed his leg down. It was 4 good years for gannon, not 1.... https://www.google.com/amp/www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/ct-aaron-rodgers-mitch-trubisky-rookie-growth-20170926-story,amp.html I'll believe Aaron rodgers over you. Lol 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 (edited) Is there a reason that everyone is lumping all rookies together instead of talking about the different players? Not all rookies can play now and not all rookies need to sit. It, is 100% dependent on the player!! Every situation is different. Edited March 11, 2018 by Kirby Jackson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boca BIlls Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 Just now, Not at the table Karlos said: Mahomes seems to have calmed his leg down. It was 4 good years for gannon, not 1.... https://www.google.com/amp/www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/ct-aaron-rodgers-mitch-trubisky-rookie-growth-20170926-story,amp.html I'll believe Aaron rodgers over you. Lol Yea, yea PR stories. You think the team wants Rodgers to say I was ready but they wouldn't let me start over Favre. Mahomes is the same guy. Gannon had one good year. Keep trying but what I say is true and it holds true every year a coach says "We are going to sit our rookie" all the sudden the rookie is starting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DriveFor1Outta5 Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Not at the table Karlos said: Rivers sat behind Brees. Hmm I did forget about that season, but there are still countless QB’s who started opening week of their rookie season. They include Wilson, Flacco, Ryan, Newton, and many more. Roethlisberger became the starter in the second game of his rookie season after an injury to Tommy Maddox. This worked out quite well for the Steelers. In fact, keeping Big Ben on the bench for Maddox would have been detrimental to that team. That coaching staff would have made an error, if not for the Maddox injury. Pro coaches are way too conservative with young QB’s. It makes sense to start the young guy with potential over the career backup vet. The career backup isn’t going to take you anywhere. You might as well go with the guy who might become something more. 19 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: Is there a reason that everyone is lumping all rookies together instead of talking about the different players? Not all rookies can play now and not all rookies need to sit. It, is 100% dependent on the player!! Every situation is different. Fair enough, but there will never be a way to prove that sitting is the reason for a QB’s success or vice versa. Personally, I don’t see the value in sitting your high draft pick QB. A guy like Aaron Rodgers is immensely talented. It’s difficult for me to base his success on sitting. Too often I hear about a QB who “needs to sit because he isn’t ready”. How many times is this code for the guy simply not being an NFL level QB? Out of curiosity what recent elite NFL QB’s do you think benefited most from sitting on the bench? I’m just trying to see the other side of the coin. Edited March 11, 2018 by DriveFor1Outta5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not at the table Karlos Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 4 minutes ago, Boca BIlls said: Yea, yea PR stories. You think the team wants Rodgers to say I was ready but they wouldn't let me start over Favre. Mahomes is the same guy. Gannon had one good year. Keep trying but what I say is true and it holds true every year a coach says "We are going to sit our rookie" all the sudden the rookie is starting. Smfh... have a good day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zebrastripes Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 6 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: Is there a reason that everyone is lumping all rookies together instead of talking about the different players? Not all rookies can play now and not all rookies need to sit. It, is 100% dependent on the player!! Every situation is different. I said this from the beginning. If a guy isn't ready let him sit. I never said all rookie qbs need to sit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boca BIlls Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 (edited) 1 minute ago, Not at the table Karlos said: Smfh... have a good day. Yea you too. Don't blame me for HCs pretending sitting a QB I the thing to do, then they ruin your sit the QB theory by throwing the QB in ASAP. Edited March 11, 2018 by Boca BIlls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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