Another QB to consider

[JinxedBill1]

TLDR

[Foxx]

well, it wouldn't be unprecented. the Chargers did trade Brees back in the day so i guess this could happen. however, i don't think it will. estatic if it did though.

[MILFHUNTER#518]

19 minutes ago, RocCityRoller said:

 

 

Among all the QB topics here and around the NFL boards I have not seen much conversation about Andrew Luck.

 

 

 

 

Most of the buzz centers around free agent Kirk Cousins at 25-30 million a year. By trading Taylor the Bills gained 10 million this year on the cap, and will be 80-90 million under the cap next year when dead cap space is freed up. Financially the Bills are technically back in the running for Kirk Cousins, but questions remain about Cousins being an average or slightly above average QB able to win games. There are also suitors willing to throw ridiculous amounts of guaranteed money at him (Vikings, Jets).

 

 

 

 

The next QB tier is the Nick Foles/ Case Keenum level. Nick Foles is apparently commanding a 1st and 4th from Philadelphia coming off his big playoff run and Super Bowl MVP, a classic buy high scenario. Case Keenum also had a terrific run last year but has had an up and down career. Both proved to be clutch performers when called upon and could be reaching a 4-5 year 'Rich Gannon' halo level. Both also have been career backups and journeymen and seem to be mid-tier, system dependent starters. If in the right situation and surrounded by strong teams, they can be successful. Does Buffalo meet those requirements?

 

 

 

 

After that level we have AJ McCarron who will require draft picks too, and has a very small sample size (a la Rob Johnson), Mike Glennon who has never wowed anyone, underwhelming Matt Moore, always injured Sam Bradford, Josh McCown who is almost as old as me, and Teddy Bridgewater who is a poor man’s Tyrod Taylor coming off a major injury. None of these are a real day one starting QB you trade Tyrod away for. Fine backups for certain, but not starters for a team coming off of a playoff appearance and looking to win now with a veteran roster, or build with for the future.

 

 

 

 

McBeane has stated they would not move on from Tyrod unless they had a plan in place. None of the above meet that requirement and will demand a significant investment in cap space or picks.

 

 

 

 

At 21 and 22, the Bills could let the draft fall to them and hope for an Aaron Rogers or Russel Wilson situation. They could try to package picks for a QB and move up, but who is the target? All of the top 6 QB prospects have question marks. Whether it is completion %, arm strength, maturity, size, clutch performances or competition level, none is the ideal guy you gamble the house on, but many are intriguing for a relatively new HC/GM combo without a QB in place.

 

 

 

Buffalo will have to give up three picks minimum, likely four to move to the 3-6 pick range, if they can find a partner to snag who they want, and a lot of teams in that range also could use a QB. There are more teams with draft capital that could move up and leave Buffalo in another Big Ben draft situation leaving our Bills with another Losman. Can a team with so many holes afford to mortgage their future for an unproven commodity with a lot of question marks?

 

 

 

 

Buffalo actually has enough cash and enough draft picks to make any scenario above possible.

 

 

 

 

Look around the NFL.

 

 

 

 

 

Who has a proven starter at QB, at a buy low point, on a contract that looks like a bargain for the next few years when compared to Cousins, is in line with Foles for draft capital, and is a McBeane type character experiencing a regime change?

 

 

 

 

Andrew Luck in Indianapolis does. Indianapolis has about 5 QBs under contract, the #3 pick in the draft, and a former QB in place as a new HC in Frank Reich.

 

 

 

Wouldn't Frank Reich like to have a say in his future QB? Most new HC/GM want 'their guy' to lead the team and succeed or fail with that guy. He did help develop Carson Wentz, who fell into a dream scenario with a strong team, a HC that was a career backup QB in Doug Petersen, and Frank Reich as OC. Frank Reich has strong ties to Buffalo. Would Reich do Buffalo a solid by trading Luck to them?

 

 

 

 

What if Buffalo could get Luck with the two first round picks this year (#21 and #22)?

 

 

 

 

Why would Indy do it?

 

 

 

If Indy traded Luck to Buffalo they would free up significant cap space to build around, and have three total picks in the top 22 this year to rebuild with. Indy already has the #3 pick in this year's draft and would free up about $75 million more in cap space over the next three years.

 

 

 

 

Look at the draft. With the Tyrod trade, Cleveland can take S. Barkley at #1 safely and have a solid run game and game manager that limits turnovers and show a marked improvement in wins now. At #2, do the Giants aim for the fences at a QB to replace Eli or do they build up the team for one last run? I'm guessing they go defense like LB Chubb and pair him with newly acquired LB Ogletree to build up the defense, and make a run with a healthy Beckham back. That leaves Indy at the #3 pick, able to pick any QB to rebuild with.  At #4 Cleveland still could go QB for the future too.

 

 

 

 

What would Buffalo get? With the Tyrod trade Buffalo could absorb Luck's contract which is about $25 million this year. Would you rather pay Luck or Cousins 25-30 million a year? Buffalo would still have room to sign an impact player (DE Adrian Clayborn), or sign/resign a few Poyer/Hyde style mid level players. DT Beau Allen, WR Donte Montcreif, and LBs Preston Brown, Zach Brown, and Nigel Bradham range come to mind. Even trading away the two firsts, the Bills would still have their 2 second round picks, and 2 third round picks to build around Luck, and be able to address the defensive front seven, OL and WR positions as needed based on free agency.

 

 

 

 

In Bufffalo Luck would have a solid OL, especially if Glenn is healthy. In that case, Dawkins should kick out to RT as he was originally drafted for, and give Luck the best pair of tackles he has had. Incognito is still solid at LG for a year or two. The Bills also have Groy at C who started many games that Wood missed a year ago without missing a beat. Let Ducasse and Miller fight it out at RG under the new scheme. PFF rated Ducasse as an avg RG last year, and Miller was the most improved RG the year before the zone blocking scheme was implemented. The Bills could use a pick to beef up the interior OL too, to protect Luck.

 

 

 

 

At RB, Luck would have a veteran thunder and lightning RB combo in McCoy and Ivory. Between the two of them, there should be plenty of gas left in the tank, and a good understanding of pass blocking. Better than the Richardson and Brown combo he had in Indy for many seasons.

 

 

 

 

WR/TE it is underwhelming at first, but Benjamin is the huge target Luck never had in Indy. TY has been fantastic, but is small. Indy hasn't had a big receiver like Benjamin. Clay is a solid TE that can block and catch. Jones is in his second year, surgically repaired, and should be moved to the slot. The signing of a mid level WR like Montcreif would add familiarity, Hurns would add another boundary WR so Jones could move inside, or Richardson who would add speed to beef this area up. A draft pick could also be made here.

 

 

 

 

Buffalo is not the worst proposition that could be made to Luck. Both teams have work to do to compete for a championship, but both teams would benefit. Both are in the midst of regime changes, but I feel Buffalo is more ready to win now with a few savvy moves.

 

 

 

 

Is Andrew Luck in the prototype buy low scenario?

 

Is Andrew Luck still considered a franchise QB?

 

Would you pick up his contract for this year’s 2 first round picks?

 

If not who would you prefer? Why?

 

Would Indy even consider 2 first round picks for him to do a true rebuild under a new HC?

 

What is the most you would trade to Indy for him since Buffalo has 6 picks in the first three rounds?

 

Is he healthy enough for the risk?

 

What do you think?

 

Dude, your post is SOOO flawed. You missed all the obvious targets. Brees, Brady, Aaron FREAKING Rogers!!!

[BuffaloBillyG]

1 minute ago, RocCityRoller said:

 

thank you for a reasoned response.

 

Do you think #21 and #22 will get to the pick needed for Rosen/Mayfield/Darnold? I think it will take 3-4 picks due to draft pick value and the teams looking for QB.

 

I think Indy is full scrap down, rebuild mode. Get rid of salary, have #3, #21, #22 to rebuild with a new coach and sell off assets.

No, it would take more to get their pick and I think that's pretty obvious. 

 

But in giving up more, you could potentially get a guy that is younger with less tread on his tires. Luck has taken a ton of hits. You also have to believe if the Colts want to get a new QB, there is concern over where that shoulder is. And as far as a draftee being an unknown commodity, Luck right now is just as much of a question mark in my opinion. No telling how he will look when he comes back. Did he lose any arm strength/zip? Has his accuracy suffered? Will he overcompensate and do too much to protect the shoulder from hits?

 

For just a little more in my eyes we have the potential to get a lot more in return.

[MiltonWaddams]

2 minutes ago, Foxx said:

well, it wouldn't be unprecented. the Chargers did trade Brees back in the day so i guess this could happen. however, i don't think it will. estatic if it did though.

They traded Brees because they had Rivers AND believed Brees to be damaged goods. Jacoby sure as hell isn't Rivers and neither is any QB in this draft as far as I can see. Luck is only out of Indy if they think his shoulder is shot, and then he's not fetching jack from anyone else.

[Spielman]

Uh, McCarron is a free agent and will not require draft picks.  I consider him a viable option for the Bills.  He’s had a few years as an apprentice in the league and deserves a ****.  And will save $$.  And we keep all draft picks 

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, MiltonWaddams said:

They traded Brees because they had Rivers AND believed Brees to be damaged goods. Jacoby sure as hell isn't Rivers and neither is any QB in this draft as far as I can see. Luck is only out of Indy if they think his shoulder is shot, and then he's not fetching jack from anyone else.

 

The Chargers didn't trade Brees.  He left in free agency. 

[BillsFanForever19]

I like when people put their crazy ideas at the top of a super long post. Saves me the time of reading all that.

[Foxx]

1 minute ago, MiltonWaddams said:

They traded Brees because they had Rivers AND believed Brees to be damaged goods. Jacoby sure as hell isn't Rivers and neither is any QB in this draft as far as I can see. Luck is only out of Indy if they think his shoulder is shot, and then he's not fetching jack from anyone else.

the logic within this post is off kilter. you proved my point more than anything else.

 

if Indy trades Luck, they will believe him to be damaged goods, like the Chargers did with Brees. Indy would most certainly be drafting a qb at 3 to replace him. much like the acquistion of Rivers back in time.

 

[Seanbillsfan2206]

23 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

Skip to where it says “Luck”, then you know all you need to know. 

That’s exactly what I did. I don’t understand why people would think he’s available 

[SouthNYfan]

There have been threads on this before.

Luck isn't going anywhere if he's healthy.

Luck being on the block means they definitely don't trust his shoulder.

His arm was worse than Brees, whom Brees' own surgeon said was "miracle" he could even throw again, let alone at a high level.

Please lock this thread.

[buffaloboyinATL]

37 minutes ago, Bag of Milk said:

So many words.....

We are so lucky to have you here to copy the whole post to take up even more space...

[Bornafan66]

40 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

Firstly, Luck is not available.  Secondly, if he is you know he's damaged goods.  

How do you know Luck isn't available??   I'd certainly make the call and find out. 

[RocCityRoller]

6 minutes ago, Bornafan66 said:

How do you know Luck isn't available??   I'd certainly make the call and find out. 

Exactly

 

Look at the Colts position. It is a total rebuild. They have the #3 pick in a deep QB class. Dumping 75 Million in cap and grabbing two more first rounders is a smart move when dealing low.

 

For the Bills it's a better gamble than Cousins, Foles or a rookie.

 

and there is a connection, not to mention Foles could go to Indy with Reich there and Philly being in cap Hell.

 

but hey what do I know?

Edited March 10, 2018 by RocCityRoller

[Bornafan66]

17 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said:

There have been threads on this before.

Luck isn't going anywhere if he's healthy.

Luck being on the block means they definitely don't trust his shoulder.

His arm was worse than Brees, whom Brees' own surgeon said was "miracle" he could even throw again, let alone at a high level.

Please lock this thread.

Do you remember the Herschel Walker trade. Cowboys gave up a great player they just didn't need, used that trade to build a team that beat the Bills in two super bowls. Indy has a bunch of holes to fill. 

[26CornerBlitz]

5 minutes ago, Bornafan66 said:

How do you know Luck isn't available??   I'd certainly make the call and find out. 

 

Just now, RocCityRoller said:

Exactly

 

Look at the Colts position. It is a total rebuild. They have the #3 pick in a deep QB class. Dumping 75 Million in cap and grabbing two more first rounders is a smart move when dealing low.

 

For the Bills it's a better gamble than Cousins, Foles or a rookie.

 

and there is a connection

 

Nice to know yout wo agree with each other.  If Luck is healthy and things are trending that way according to Ballard, Reich, and Luck himself then he's their franchise QB who is not available. What might be available is their #3 overall pick. 

 

[Bornafan66]

3 minutes ago, RocCityRoller said:

Exactly

 

Look at the Colts position. It is a total rebuild. They have the #3 pick in a deep QB class. Dumping 75 Million in cap and grabbing two more first rounders is a smart move when dealing low.

 

For the Bills it's a better gamble than Cousins, Foles or a rookie.

 

and there is a connection, not to mention Foles could go to Indy with Reich there and Philly being in cap Hell.

 

but hey what do I know?

I'd like this a lot. Whether or not the Bills get Luck there is certainly going to be more wheeling and dealing up to and during the draft. Great off season so far.

[MiltonWaddams]

34 minutes ago, Foxx said:

the logic within this post is off kilter. you proved my point more than anything else.

 

if Indy trades Luck, they will believe him to be damaged goods, like the Chargers did with Brees. Indy would most certainly be drafting a qb at 3 to replace him. much like the acquistion of Rivers back in time.

 

Not all replies are intended to disprove the initial point. Sometimes they add ammunition to it. ?

38 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

The Chargers didn't trade Brees.  He left in free agency. 

Apologies and thanks. Should read "let go of" or "allowed to leave"

[RocCityRoller]

Just now, Bornafan66 said:

I'd like this a lot. Whether or not the Bills get Luck there is certainly going to be more wheeling and dealing up to and during the draft. Great off season so far.

 

With the cap as it is, trades are becoming more acceptable now.

 

Why not make the offer?

 

Foles-Reich connection, Philly in cap prison, Foles to indy, Reich-Buffalo connection, make an offer.

[nucci]

Too soon to consider trading for Luck. He hasn't throw a football without pain for a long time. There are still questions whether he will be healthy enough to play this coming season.