RocCityRoller Posted March 10, 2018 Posted March 10, 2018 Among all the QB topics here and around the NFL boards I have not seen much conversation about Andrew Luck. Most of the buzz centers around free agent Kirk Cousins at 25-30 million a year. By trading Taylor the Bills gained 10 million this year on the cap, and will be 80-90 million under the cap next year when dead cap space is freed up. Financially the Bills are technically back in the running for Kirk Cousins, but questions remain about Cousins being an average or slightly above average QB able to win games. There are also suitors willing to throw ridiculous amounts of guaranteed money at him (Vikings, Jets). The next QB tier is the Nick Foles/ Case Keenum level. Nick Foles is apparently commanding a 1st and 4th from Philadelphia coming off his big playoff run and Super Bowl MVP, a classic buy high scenario. Case Keenum also had a terrific run last year but has had an up and down career. Both proved to be clutch performers when called upon and could be reaching a 4-5 year 'Rich Gannon' halo level. Both also have been career backups and journeymen and seem to be mid-tier, system dependent starters. If in the right situation and surrounded by strong teams, they can be successful. Does Buffalo meet those requirements? After that level we have AJ McCarron who will require draft picks too, and has a very small sample size (a la Rob Johnson), Mike Glennon who has never wowed anyone, underwhelming Matt Moore, always injured Sam Bradford, Josh McCown who is almost as old as me, and Teddy Bridgewater who is a poor man’s Tyrod Taylor coming off a major injury. None of these are a real day one starting QB you trade Tyrod away for. Fine backups for certain, but not starters for a team coming off of a playoff appearance and looking to win now with a veteran roster, or build with for the future. McBeane has stated they would not move on from Tyrod unless they had a plan in place. None of the above meet that requirement and will demand a significant investment in cap space or picks. At 21 and 22, the Bills could let the draft fall to them and hope for an Aaron Rogers or Russel Wilson situation. They could try to package picks for a QB and move up, but who is the target? All of the top 6 QB prospects have question marks. Whether it is completion %, arm strength, maturity, size, clutch performances or competition level, none is the ideal guy you gamble the house on, but many are intriguing for a relatively new HC/GM combo without a QB in place. Buffalo will have to give up three picks minimum, likely four to move to the 3-6 pick range, if they can find a partner to snag who they want, and a lot of teams in that range also could use a QB. There are more teams with draft capital that could move up and leave Buffalo in another Big Ben draft situation leaving our Bills with another Losman. Can a team with so many holes afford to mortgage their future for an unproven commodity with a lot of question marks? Buffalo actually has enough cash and enough draft picks to make any scenario above possible. Look around the NFL. Who has a proven starter at QB, at a buy low point, on a contract that looks like a bargain for the next few years when compared to Cousins, is in line with Foles for draft capital, and is a McBeane type character experiencing a regime change? Andrew Luck in Indianapolis does. Indianapolis has about 5 QBs under contract, the #3 pick in the draft, and a former QB in place as a new HC in Frank Reich. Wouldn't Frank Reich like to have a say in his future QB? Most new HC/GM want 'their guy' to lead the team and succeed or fail with that guy. He did help develop Carson Wentz, who fell into a dream scenario with a strong team, a HC that was a career backup QB in Doug Petersen, and Frank Reich as OC. Frank Reich has strong ties to Buffalo. Would Reich do Buffalo a solid by trading Luck to them? What if Buffalo could get Luck with the two first round picks this year (#21 and #22)? Why would Indy do it? If Indy traded Luck to Buffalo they would free up significant cap space to build around, and have three total picks in the top 22 this year to rebuild with. Indy already has the #3 pick in this year's draft and would free up about $75 million more in cap space over the next three years. Look at the draft. With the Tyrod trade, Cleveland can take S. Barkley at #1 safely and have a solid run game and game manager that limits turnovers and show a marked improvement in wins now. At #2, do the Giants aim for the fences at a QB to replace Eli or do they build up the team for one last run? I'm guessing they go defense like LB Chubb and pair him with newly acquired LB Ogletree to build up the defense, and make a run with a healthy Beckham back. That leaves Indy at the #3 pick, able to pick any QB to rebuild with. At #4 Cleveland still could go QB for the future too. What would Buffalo get? With the Tyrod trade Buffalo could absorb Luck's contract which is about $25 million this year. Would you rather pay Luck or Cousins 25-30 million a year? Buffalo would still have room to sign an impact player (DE Adrian Clayborn), or sign/resign a few Poyer/Hyde style mid level players. DT Beau Allen, WR Donte Montcreif, and LBs Preston Brown, Zach Brown, and Nigel Bradham range come to mind. Even trading away the two firsts, the Bills would still have their 2 second round picks, and 2 third round picks to build around Luck, and be able to address the defensive front seven, OL and WR positions as needed based on free agency. In Bufffalo Luck would have a solid OL, especially if Glenn is healthy. In that case, Dawkins should kick out to RT as he was originally drafted for, and give Luck the best pair of tackles he has had. Incognito is still solid at LG for a year or two. The Bills also have Groy at C who started many games that Wood missed a year ago without missing a beat. Let Ducasse and Miller fight it out at RG under the new scheme. PFF rated Ducasse as an avg RG last year, and Miller was the most improved RG the year before the zone blocking scheme was implemented. The Bills could use a pick to beef up the interior OL too, to protect Luck. At RB, Luck would have a veteran thunder and lightning RB combo in McCoy and Ivory. Between the two of them, there should be plenty of gas left in the tank, and a good understanding of pass blocking. Better than the Richardson and Brown combo he had in Indy for many seasons. WR/TE it is underwhelming at first, but Benjamin is the huge target Luck never had in Indy. TY has been fantastic, but is small. Indy hasn't had a big receiver like Benjamin. Clay is a solid TE that can block and catch. Jones is in his second year, surgically repaired, and should be moved to the slot. The signing of a mid level WR like Montcreif would add familiarity, Hurns would add another boundary WR so Jones could move inside, or Richardson who would add speed to beef this area up. A draft pick could also be made here. Buffalo is not the worst proposition that could be made to Luck. Both teams have work to do to compete for a championship, but both teams would benefit. Both are in the midst of regime changes, but I feel Buffalo is more ready to win now with a few savvy moves. Is Andrew Luck in the prototype buy low scenario? Is Andrew Luck still considered a franchise QB? Would you pick up his contract for this year’s 2 first round picks? If not who would you prefer? Why? Would Indy even consider 2 first round picks for him to do a true rebuild under a new HC? What is the most you would trade to Indy for him since Buffalo has 6 picks in the first three rounds? Is he healthy enough for the risk? What do you think? 1
MAJBobby Posted March 10, 2018 Posted March 10, 2018 (edited) Indy is not trading Luck. What about Carr, Wilson, Rodgers, Brady, Ryan Edited March 10, 2018 by MAJBobby
26CornerBlitz Posted March 10, 2018 Posted March 10, 2018 (edited) Firstly, Luck is not available. Secondly, if he is you know he's damaged goods. Edited March 10, 2018 by 26CornerBlitz 3 2
bigduke6 Posted March 10, 2018 Posted March 10, 2018 only thing drawing fans to watch the Colts is Luck. He wont be traded unless the orginization knows his shoulder is shot.
Bag of Milk Posted March 10, 2018 Posted March 10, 2018 4 minutes ago, RocCityRoller said: Among all the QB topics here and around the NFL boards I have not seen much conversation about Andrew Luck. Most of the buzz centers around free agent Kirk Cousins at 25-30 million a year. By trading Taylor the Bills gained 10 million this year on the cap, and will be 80-90 million under the cap next year when dead cap space is freed up. Financially the Bills are technically back in the running for Kirk Cousins, but questions remain about Cousins being an average or slightly above average QB able to win games. There are also suitors willing to throw ridiculous amounts of guaranteed money at him (Vikings, Jets). The next QB tier is the Nick Foles/ Case Keenum level. Nick Foles is apparently commanding a 1st and 4th from Philadelphia coming off his big playoff run and Super Bowl MVP, a classic buy high scenario. Case Keenum also had a terrific run last year but has had an up and down career. Both proved to be clutch performers when called upon and could be reaching a 4-5 year 'Rich Gannon' halo level. Both also have been career backups and journeymen and seem to be mid-tier, system dependent starters. If in the right situation and surrounded by strong teams, they can be successful. Does Buffalo meet those requirements? After that level we have AJ McCarron who will require draft picks too, and has a very small sample size (a la Rob Johnson), Mike Glennon who has never wowed anyone, underwhelming Matt Moore, always injured Sam Bradford, Josh McCown who is almost as old as me, and Teddy Bridgewater who is a poor man’s Tyrod Taylor coming off a major injury. None of these are a real day one starting QB you trade Tyrod away for. Fine backups for certain, but not starters for a team coming off of a playoff appearance and looking to win now with a veteran roster, or build with for the future. McBeane has stated they would not move on from Tyrod unless they had a plan in place. None of the above meet that requirement and will demand a significant investment in cap space or picks. At 21 and 22, the Bills could let the draft fall to them and hope for an Aaron Rogers or Russel Wilson situation. They could try to package picks for a QB and move up, but who is the target? All of the top 6 QB prospects have question marks. Whether it is completion %, arm strength, maturity, size, clutch performances or competition level, none is the ideal guy you gamble the house on, but many are intriguing for a relatively new HC/GM combo without a QB in place. Buffalo will have to give up three picks minimum, likely four to move to the 3-6 pick range, if they can find a partner to snag who they want, and a lot of teams in that range also could use a QB. There are more teams with draft capital that could move up and leave Buffalo in another Big Ben draft situation leaving our Bills with another Losman. Can a team with so many holes afford to mortgage their future for an unproven commodity with a lot of question marks? Buffalo actually has enough cash and enough draft picks to make any scenario above possible. Look around the NFL. Who has a proven starter at QB, at a buy low point, on a contract that looks like a bargain for the next few years when compared to Cousins, is in line with Foles for draft capital, and is a McBeane type character experiencing a regime change? Andrew Luck in Indianapolis does. Indianapolis has about 5 QBs under contract, the #3 pick in the draft, and a former QB in place as a new HC in Frank Reich. Wouldn't Frank Reich like to have a say in his future QB? Most new HC/GM want 'their guy' to lead the team and succeed or fail with that guy. He did help develop Carson Wentz, who fell into a dream scenario with a strong team, a HC that was a career backup QB in Doug Petersen, and Frank Reich as OC. Frank Reich has strong ties to Buffalo. Would Reich do Buffalo a solid by trading Luck to them? What if Buffalo could get Luck with the two first round picks this year (#21 and #22)? Why would Indy do it? If Indy traded Luck to Buffalo they would free up significant cap space to build around, and have three total picks in the top 22 this year to rebuild with. Indy already has the #3 pick in this year's draft and would free up about $75 million more in cap space over the next three years. Look at the draft. With the Tyrod trade, Cleveland can take S. Barkley at #1 safely and have a solid run game and game manager that limits turnovers and show a marked improvement in wins now. At #2, do the Giants aim for the fences at a QB to replace Eli or do they build up the team for one last run? I'm guessing they go defense like LB Chubb and pair him with newly acquired LB Ogletree to build up the defense, and make a run with a healthy Beckham back. That leaves Indy at the #3 pick, able to pick any QB to rebuild with. At #4 Cleveland still could go QB for the future too. What would Buffalo get? With the Tyrod trade Buffalo could absorb Luck's contract which is about $25 million this year. Would you rather pay Luck or Cousins 25-30 million a year? Buffalo would still have room to sign an impact player (DE Adrian Clayborn), or sign/resign a few Poyer/Hyde style mid level players. DT Beau Allen, WR Donte Montcreif, and LBs Preston Brown, Zach Brown, and Nigel Bradham range come to mind. Even trading away the two firsts, the Bills would still have their 2 second round picks, and 2 third round picks to build around Luck, and be able to address the defensive front seven, OL and WR positions as needed based on free agency. In Bufffalo Luck would have a solid OL, especially if Glenn is healthy. In that case, Dawkins should kick out to RT as he was originally drafted for, and give Luck the best pair of tackles he has had. Incognito is still solid at LG for a year or two. The Bills also have Groy at C who started many games that Wood missed a year ago without missing a beat. Let Ducasse and Miller fight it out at RG under the new scheme. PFF rated Ducasse as an avg RG last year, and Miller was the most improved RG the year before the zone blocking scheme was implemented. The Bills could use a pick to beef up the interior OL too, to protect Luck. At RB, Luck would have a veteran thunder and lightning RB combo in McCoy and Ivory. Between the two of them, there should be plenty of gas left in the tank, and a good understanding of pass blocking. Better than the Richardson and Brown combo he had in Indy for many seasons. WR/TE it is underwhelming at first, but Benjamin is the huge target Luck never had in Indy. TY has been fantastic, but is small. Indy hasn't had a big receiver like Benjamin. Clay is a solid TE that can block and catch. Jones is in his second year, surgically repaired, and should be moved to the slot. The signing of a mid level WR like Montcreif would add familiarity, Hurns would add another boundary WR so Jones could move inside, or Richardson who would add speed to beef this area up. A draft pick could also be made here. Buffalo is not the worst proposition that could be made to Luck. Both teams have work to do to compete for a championship, but both teams would benefit. Both are in the midst of regime changes, but I feel Buffalo is more ready to win now with a few savvy moves. Is Andrew Luck in the prototype buy low scenario? Is Andrew Luck still considered a franchise QB? Would you pick up his contract for this year’s 2 first round picks? If not who would you prefer? Why? Would Indy even consider 2 first round picks for him to do a true rebuild under a new HC? What is the most you would trade to Indy for him since Buffalo has 6 picks in the first three rounds? Is he healthy enough for the risk? What do you think? So many words..... 2 2
Augie Posted March 10, 2018 Posted March 10, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: Indy is not trading Luck. What about Carr, Wilson, Rodgers, Brady, Ryan Just as likely to be traded. . Edited March 10, 2018 by Augie
Reed83HOF Posted March 10, 2018 Posted March 10, 2018 3 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Firstly Luck is not available. Secondly, if he is you know he's damaged goods. This a thousand times...and it's sad because I like Luck
Augie Posted March 10, 2018 Posted March 10, 2018 2 minutes ago, Bag of Milk said: So many words..... Skip to where it says “Luck”, then you know all you need to know. 1 1
BuffaloBillyG Posted March 10, 2018 Posted March 10, 2018 If we make a trade to Indy I'd rather use all those high draft picks it would take to get Luck to get that #3 pick and get Rosen/Mayfield/Darnold.
Green Lightning Posted March 10, 2018 Posted March 10, 2018 I understand that there are times in life where anything seems possible. Then someone says maybe Indy will trade Luck and our dreams dissappear like vapor....
Johnny Hammersticks Posted March 10, 2018 Posted March 10, 2018 Can you sum up your thoughts in 500 words or less? I have a full time job and 2 kids. The Colts are not trading Andrew Luck. Just stop. And this is like the 3rd or 4th thread about this. 4
Zebrastripes Posted March 10, 2018 Posted March 10, 2018 Why do people continue to make threads that have no merit. There is zero chance Indy is moving him unless his shoulder is beyond repair which makes him useless anyways.
Norwood for Wall of Fame Posted March 10, 2018 Posted March 10, 2018 Sad to think that the 20 minutes you spent writing that are lost to you forever. 1
Luxy312 Posted March 10, 2018 Posted March 10, 2018 Luck is the face of the franchise. He's not getting traded unless he's in a similar situation that Peyton Manning was in, and there's a possibility that he's damaged goods for the remainder of his career. If that latter situation is the case, there's no reason to trade for a broken QB. While you're at it, you might as well suggest that the Bills will have a shot at Drew Brees. After all, he is going to become a free agent. Wouldn't even have to trade for him. Just throw money at him. BTW, McCarron won his dispute with the Bengals and is a free agent. He will NOT cost draft picks.
RocCityRoller Posted March 10, 2018 Author Posted March 10, 2018 Just now, KelsaysLunchbox said: If we make a trade to Indy I'd rather use all those high draft picks it would take to get Luck to get that #3 pick and get Rosen/Mayfield/Darnold. thank you for a reasoned response. Do you think #21 and #22 will get to the pick needed for Rosen/Mayfield/Darnold? I think it will take 3-4 picks due to draft pick value and the teams looking for QB. I think Indy is full scrap down, rebuild mode. Get rid of salary, have #3, #21, #22 to rebuild with a new coach and sell off assets.
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted March 10, 2018 Posted March 10, 2018 14 minutes ago, Hurricane said: What about Cam Newton ...perhaps with the Kizer trade, Rodgers becomes expendable....just sayin'...............
Chuck Wagon Posted March 10, 2018 Posted March 10, 2018 21 minutes ago, Bag of Milk said: So many words..... That's the longest way of saying "do you think we can get Andrew Luck?" I've ever seen. Marijuana is a hell of a drug. 2
Zebrastripes Posted March 10, 2018 Posted March 10, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, RocCityRoller said: thank you for a reasoned response. Reasoned responses require reasonable thread topics. Edited March 10, 2018 by Zebrastripes
T master Posted March 10, 2018 Posted March 10, 2018 Given the Bills actions last year taking a look at McCowan & what he did while with the Jets the most fiscally responsible thing they could do would be give him a one yr shot to be the bridge while drafting a QB this yr at 2 to 5 I think they would like to get in front of the jets at 6 . I also hear if they would offer him a coaching gig after that might be a possibility (thats not me saying that i heard that from another "Expert" on a different site)
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