Gugny Posted March 8, 2018 Posted March 8, 2018 16 minutes ago, Thurmanator 12074 said: But he is a good passer you just don’t like his throwing style. You can’t say he’s not a good passer satistics do not back you up. Statistics also make Tyrod look like a good passer. And college statistics don't mean anything with regard to a college player's game translating to the NFL. Lastly, shame on bleacher report for playing the race card. That **** is old, tired and simply wrong. 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 8, 2018 Posted March 8, 2018 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Thurmanator 12074 said: really good video and points being made about Lamar Jackson. I’m beginning to think that this might be the very best QB this draft has to offer. watch this video and see for your self. Also just because you don’t like his throwing style or his narrow base is not a good argument. The results that are all that matters. He has the size the we crave for a qb and body type. Also might be the fastest QB ever. If this guy was white and played at Tenn he be the 1st pick in the draft. Meh. I really like Jackson. But I don't think it's racist to refer to him as a bit of a project. He is a bit of a project. He's done some good stuff, and his WR didn't help him out too much, and there are times when his technique isn't right and he's inaccurate because of it. What I think is racist is referring to Jackson as a project and Allen as a #1 pick. Allen is a project x2. He's inaccurate at times for reasons I can't pick up. If you can't pick it up, you can't fix it. I doubt me some me on that topic, but I've also read some pretty good draft analysts saying as much. Jackson is not the best QB in the draft - looking at nothing else (height etc), that might be Mayfield or that might be Rosen (depending upon how you weight things). But I'd be happy if we were able to give Jackson a shot. Now, repeatedly asking him to work out or change positions or what have you at WR that's just wrong. 13 minutes ago, billspro said: I don't think his accuracy issues are correctable in the pros. Lots of people try to compare him to Watson and I just don't see it. I had Watson graded as a top 5 selection. Jackson is my 8th ranked QB this year. I honestly would not draft him before the end of the second round at the earliest. So what do you think of Allen's accuracy issues and where do you have him ranked? Edited March 8, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan
17 Josh Allen Posted March 8, 2018 Author Posted March 8, 2018 (edited) You just made my point they wanted him to work out as a receiver at the combine. We are in 2018 are we not. I’m glad he did not do anything else but throw. I’m glad he told them to go stick where the sun don’t shine. Edited March 8, 2018 by Thurmanator 12074
John from Riverside Posted March 8, 2018 Posted March 8, 2018 I just dont want to go down the road of making it about race...I really just dont. The guy is loaded with talent and was productive in College.......he got better every year....he was throwing to targets that will not be drafted...... At 21.....I take a chance on this kid. 1
whatdrought Posted March 8, 2018 Posted March 8, 2018 The biggest problem I have with this idea that black QB's get treated differently because of racism is that it lessens real life racism. Racism is a foul disease that exists in the shadows (and far too often in the light) of ignorance. It needs to be addressed and eradicated. The problem exists that when we as a society call anything and everything racism without facts and evidence we muddy the water and make it impossible to address real racism because we've lost the ability to define it. At the end of the day, the goal is to find a QB who can succeed consistently and efficiently at the NFL level. I could care less what color their skin is, I care what color jersey they wear.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 8, 2018 Posted March 8, 2018 3 minutes ago, Gugny said: Statistics also make Tyrod look like a good passer. And college statistics don't mean anything with regard to a college player's game translating to the NFL. Lastly, shame on bleacher report for playing the race card. That **** is old, tired and simply wrong. Tyrod is a good passer. His problem isn't his ability to throw - which he's worked on through and after college, and improved. His problem is being able to read coverages and react to them fast enough, and being willing to pull the trigger into a tight window. Now maybe he doesn't have enough arm strength for some of that and knows it, but I think it's more a mental thing.
whatdrought Posted March 8, 2018 Posted March 8, 2018 2 minutes ago, Thurmanator 12074 said: You just made my point they wanted him to work out as a receiver at the combine. We are in 2018 are we not. I’m glad he did not do anything else but throw. I’m glad he told them to go stick where the sun don’t shine. What does this prove? How exactly is it racist to ask a super athletic guy to work out in multiple positions? 1
17 Josh Allen Posted March 8, 2018 Author Posted March 8, 2018 So how come there not asking Rosen to work out at WR then
whatdrought Posted March 8, 2018 Posted March 8, 2018 6 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Meh. I really like Jackson. But I don't think it's racist to refer to him as a bit of a project. He is a bit of a project. He's done some good stuff, and his WR didn't help him out too much, and there are times when his technique isn't right and he's inaccurate because of it. What I think is racist is referring to Jackson as a project and Allen as a #1 pick. Allen is a project x2. He's inaccurate at times for reasons I can't pick up. If you can't pick it up, you can't fix it. I doubt me some me on that topic, but I've also read some pretty good draft analysts saying as much. Jackson is not the best QB in the draft - looking at nothing else (height etc), that might be Mayfield or that might be Rosen (depending upon how you weight things). But I'd be happy if we were able to give Jackson a shot. Now, repeatedly asking him to work out or change positions or what have you at WR that's just wrong. So what do you think of Allen's accuracy issues and where do you have him ranked? I think the reason that Allen is going to get a little less controversy with the accuracy (right or wrong) is because people think he has the arm strength to make up for some of the issues, which could prove to be true. The fact that Jackson has accuracy issues and questionable arm strength might be problematic. I'm not saying it'll shake out any such way, but none-the-less, that's what I've seen. 1 minute ago, Thurmanator 12074 said: So how come there not asking Rosen to work out at WR then Seriously? You must be kidding. Rosen has no athletic ability. If you draft him as a QB and he doesn't pan out, you have nothing.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 8, 2018 Posted March 8, 2018 23 minutes ago, buffaloboyinATL said: I disagree that the color of his skin has anything to do with most people’s assessment of him. Most people are siting accuracy issues, low velocity, etc, as issues, not skin color. Now this is new, where's the "low velocity" thing outside of OurLads which has been debunked as diverging from official velocity numbers? None of the scouts who watch film on Jackson in college have commented on velocity issues or arm strength as they do with Rudolph, Lauletta, etc. It seems to be a point that Allen, who has worse accuracy issues in games, is being cited as having a 'ton of potential' while Jackson, who does have some accuracy issues but who plays in a pro-style offense and goes through progressions, is being cited as playing "backyard football" and called a "project" and asked to change to WR. I don't know what's behind it - could be racism. Could be all the scouts and teams in love with the Search for the Next Big Ben. Could be the fact that Jackson's rushing abilities are so stunning that it's literally hard to watch game film and see him throw. It's worth pointing out and I thoroughly respect it that Jackson has consistently refused to "go there" when bluntly questioned. He just says he doesn't know about racism, he just knows he's strictly a QB. 1 minute ago, whatdrought said: I think the reason that Allen is going to get a little less controversy with the accuracy (right or wrong) is because people think he has the arm strength to make up for some of the issues, which could prove to be true. The fact that Jackson has accuracy issues and questionable arm strength might be problematic. Still like to see where Jackson's arm strength has been questioned more than the other QB (outside Allen). 4 minutes ago, Thurmanator 12074 said: So how come there not asking Rosen to work out at WR then LOL 'cuz Rosen got no moves, man, NO moves. He's a QB, or he's trash. Jackson, on the other hand, runs down a football field accompanied by the "whump" of jocks tumbling out of the shorts of the guys trying to tackle him. Now Allen...he's got some moves.
whatdrought Posted March 8, 2018 Posted March 8, 2018 4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Now this is new, where's the "low velocity" thing outside of OurLads which has been debunked as diverging from official velocity numbers? None of the scouts who watch film on Jackson in college have commented on velocity issues or arm strength as they do with Rudolph, Lauletta, etc. It seems to be a point that Allen, who has worse accuracy issues in games, is being cited as having a 'ton of potential' while Jackson, who does have some accuracy issues but who plays in a pro-style offense and goes through progressions, is being cited as playing "backyard football" and called a "project" and asked to change to WR. I don't know what's behind it - could be racism. Could be all the scouts and teams in love with the Search for the Next Big Ben. Could be the fact that Jackson's rushing abilities are so stunning that it's literally hard to watch game film and see him throw. It's worth pointing out and I thoroughly respect it that Jackson has consistently refused to "go there" when bluntly questioned. He just says he doesn't know about racism, he just knows he's strictly a QB. Still like to see where Jackson's arm strength has been questioned more than the other QB (outside Allen). LOL 'cuz Rosen got no moves, man, NO moves. He's a QB, or he's trash. Jackson, on the other hand, runs down a football field accompanied by the "whump" of jocks tumbling out of the shorts of the guys trying to tackle him. Now Allen...he's got some moves. Well, I saw the thing from Ourlads, but If that is unreliable than I do not know and I may very well be wrong. Though I would say that it seems pretty obvious that Allen has a higher ceiling as a straight passer due to his incredible arm so if the two of them had the same accuracy knocks, that might be where Allen get's labeled differently.
mjt328 Posted March 8, 2018 Posted March 8, 2018 Ugh. Another video pushing the racism angle. The word "project" quarterback is used for 95% of the guys out there. Pretty much anyone that isn't playing in an under center Pro-Style offense, who doesn't go to a big school or who doesn't have excellent throwing mechanics is considered a project. I've seen the same term thrown around for Josh Allen and Sam Darnold plenty over the last few weeks. People see Lamar Jackson as another QB who used his legs a lot in college to achieve success. His accuracy is questionable. He's just barely at the height threshold, but has a small frame. It's not about his skin color. People said the same thing (and were right) about Tim Tebow, Johnny Manziel, Matt Jones and countless others. 1
Solomon Grundy Posted March 8, 2018 Posted March 8, 2018 43 minutes ago, buffaloboyinATL said: I disagree that the color of his skin has anything to do with most people’s assessment of him. Most people are siting accuracy issues, low velocity, etc, as issues, not skin color. I call BS!!
Tatonka68 Posted March 8, 2018 Posted March 8, 2018 4 INT's in his last game, Tax-slayer Bowl. Totally overrated and QB's like him are only good against sub par defenses. Tyrod 2.0. Enough with this guy please.
Solomon Grundy Posted March 8, 2018 Posted March 8, 2018 42 minutes ago, Acantha said: College football is a very different game. His throwing style, not to mention his actual throws, matter. Against better defenses, his stats wouldn't be the same. That said, I don't hate Jackson. He's a 2nd to 3rd tier prospect that certainly has the potential to be a good QB. He's just got a lot to overcome. But Josh Allen is top tier? I call BS!!
brianthomas Posted March 8, 2018 Posted March 8, 2018 A post last night showed what the velocity numbers were for the qb's that threw at the combine. Jackson had one of the worst (slowest) velocity on his throws. Combine that with his accuracy stats from college, along with his combine performance & i think thats why people are critical of Jackson. I dont see how it can be race when alot of people are saying Barkley should be #1 off the board. He's black... excuse me (african american), people arent racist where he's concerned. This Bleacher Report article just screams of sensationalism for click bait. It's a shame they went the race card route just for clicks. But hey i guess it worked since we're actually talking about it.
Tatonka68 Posted March 8, 2018 Posted March 8, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, the skycap said: But Josh Allen is top tier? I call BS!! Nope, not sold on him either. Want Pocket Passer who can read a defense. Not interested in either. Edited March 8, 2018 by Tatonka68
CommonCents Posted March 8, 2018 Posted March 8, 2018 I always thought the word project was used with players who had to alter their mechanics in order to be successful at the next level. I never realized it was being used to compare QBs to low income housing. My bad.
Solomon Grundy Posted March 8, 2018 Posted March 8, 2018 42 minutes ago, ndirish1978 said: Accuracy issue has not been debunked. Stats are garbage if you don't accompany them with gametape. Have you actually watched his games? If you watched his games, you'd see all the passes that were dropped by his receivers. ALL QBs have errand throws!!
Luxy312 Posted March 8, 2018 Posted March 8, 2018 24 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Tyrod is a good passer. His problem isn't his ability to throw - which he's worked on through and after college, and improved. His problem is being able to read coverages and react to them fast enough, and being willing to pull the trigger into a tight window. Now maybe he doesn't have enough arm strength for some of that and knows it, but I think it's more a mental thing. I agree with this, but would add as well that Tyrod can't anticipate where the proverbial window is supposed to show up. It's not just about it being a tight window, but anticipatory passing. Just terrible.
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