Bills Sign Ivory

[ColoradoBills]

1 hour ago, Hurricane Marv said:

 

I agree with this, which is why I love the signing of a character guy who can actually run better than Mike Tolbert.

 

Chris Ivory is clean as a whistle by the way.  Just a hard working professional that can contribute.  Trust the process.

 

Looks pretty clean to me!

 

 

[billsfan89]

1 hour ago, Hurricane Marv said:

Signing over the hill dime-a-dozen veteran RBs has worked for last two Super Bowl champs (*cough* Blount *cough*)

 

Blount was always part of a committee in New England where a big bruising back could be successful. He started in 2015 his first year back on a minimum contract and crafted out a good role. Philly paid Blount the same money we gave Ivory because they had no good option as a starter at RB and took a bargain contract for a guy who just lead the league in Touchdowns. 

 

Ivory may a year younger than Blount was last season but he is coming off of 2 bad seasons and has a serious injury history. He isn't the type of players I would project to have success. There are plenty of veteran RB's out on the market that are younger and have less of an injury history. The Pats find a lot of good role players from players 3-4 years in the league getting waived by other teams. If "The Process" is as good as they say it is they should be able to find good role players at a position where there are a lot of good role players tend to be signed at minimum or less deals. 

 

I bet if you look at all the running backs that were signed off the street this off-season there are going to be 5-10 players that you would rather have than Ivory a 30 year old back coming off of 2 bad seasons and a considerable injury history including being a bit banged up the past 2 seasons is not a player I would sign for anything higher than the minimum. 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

Not a big fan of this move. We'll see how it turns out. 

[Ol Dirty B]

1 hour ago, Hurricane Marv said:

 

Yeah but, I'm laughing at the comparison of a veteran presence vs. a guy off the street for a backup role, and you're comparing him to Tyrod Taylor for some reason?  I'm seriously not following.

 

I'm not banging the drum for Chris Ivory to have some resurgent season and be a household name or anything, I just think he's an upgrade.  And I'm fine with the contract considering he's been a consummate professional.  We can compare his pay to somebody like Blount, who has clearly worked out, but he's also somebody that punched people in the face while playing college ball so his his pay / professional career has always kind of come at a discount it seems.  I think it's a great signing all things considered.

 

I'm saying Pro Bowls haven't meant anything in some time... That's the Tyrod Taylor point, it wasn't a direct comparison to Tyrod in skillset or anything. It's just a lot are unhappy at that position and he's made a Pro Bowl. It's an irrelevant metric at this point in time. 

 

Ivory averaged 3.4 ypc last year...

 

Tolbert was 3.7... 

 

I'm not sure why this is praised as an upgrade. 

 

The Blount comparison is way off. Blount is a good RB... Ivory isn't. That same amount where Blount is a bargain can also be over paying Ivory. I'm not so concerned about the amount they are paying him, more so that I'm not even interested in him as a player. He's not good.

Edited March 7, 2018 by Ol Dirty B

[BillsFan4]

11 hours ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

People are blind when it comes to McBeane.  We made the playoffs with the worst team we had statically since Chan Gailey was here. Now they have earned praise for being mediocre.  Btw we lost big time on that Darby deal and the Benjamin deal and the Dareus deal.

There paying him like a #2 . Gillislee btw his decision came before he couldn't do anything in New England.  He was great for us way better then anyone we had last yr. Please don't bring up age unless your saying Gillislee wasn't old enough but McBeane loves Grandpa backs.

 

How can you possibly say this yet? 

 

- We didn't even use the 3rd round pick from the Darby trade yet.

What if we draft a guy that ends up being an impact player for the Bills for years? 

And we may get a 3rd round comp pick for Matthews, too. 

So let's maybe wait and see what the pick(s) turn into, and see what Darby does in his career in Philly before declaring winners, yeah? 

 

Plus our secondary was fantastic without Darby. He wasn't a scheme fit in zone coverage and was said to be struggling with the zone concepts. 

 

 

- Benjamin played all of 6 games for us. He was injured. He had surgery though and should be 100% by training camp. He's been a legit #1 WR so far in his young career. We got him for a 3rd and 5th. And guess what, if he walks we likely get a 3rd round comp pick back. 

 

On one one hand you say we lost the Darby trade because we got a 3rd, and then on the other hand you'd say we lost the Benjamin trade because we gave up a 3rd... 

Its hard to compare a CB to a WR, but I would say that Benjamin is at least the same caliber of player Darby is, if not better. 

 

 

- Dareus wasn't worth the money and seemed to stop caring after he got paid. He wasn't playing anywhere near his 2014 level on the field and looked lazy and/or like he didn't even care half the time, and he wasn't buying in. He was the Bills highest paid player and would have had a huge cap hit this coming season (and a couple more after that). You need your highest paid players to be setting the example for the rest of the team, and Dareus was setting a terrible example.

 

What type of message does it send to the rest of the team if the Bills keep Dareus around at his salary? IMO it sends a bad one. How serious are the Bills going to take McBeane if they let their highest paid player get away with many of the things they are preaching against? They were trying to change a 17 year losing culture and shipping out Dareus was a big part of that IMO. 

 

The Bills ditched an overpaid, underperforming veteran who is one failed drug test away from a 1 year ban, saved themselves something like $50M on their future cap and actually got a pick back for him! Look at the Jets - Wilkerson situation. Very similar to the Bills - Dareus situation, except he hasn't has the drug and legal issues Dareus has. They couldn't get a thing for Mo so they released him. 

[Ol Dirty B]

2 hours ago, Lfod said:

I never knew who Tolbert was and I still don't. At least I have heard of Ivory. I like the feeling that the offense is being addressed. Hopefully it helps the offense move the chains a little more. 

 

 

 

It says more about your lack of football knowledge that you never knew who Tolbert was.

 

You recognized a former division rival, so your team played him twice a year, and you remember his name. He must be good.

 

This is just a case of fans liking the new guy simply because he signed to your team. I wasn't a Tolbert fan, nor a fan of how they used him. Ivory is not much better than Tolbert, if at all. It's another old RB. I'm tired of signing old RB's. It's not just at the starting spot or guys who will get carries, Taiwan Jones and Banyard were old too. They are what they are and will only decline. In my opinion they don't bring anything to the table that a younger guy with potential could bring. 

18 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said:

 

How can you possibly say this yet? 

 

- We didn't even use the 3rd round pick from the Darby trade yet.

What if we draft a guy that ends up being an impact player for the Bills for years? 

And we may get a 3rd round comp pick for Matthews, too. 

So let's maybe wait and see what the pick(s) turn into, and see what Darby does in his career in Philly before declaring winners, yeah? 

 

Plus our secondary was fantastic without Darby. He wasn't a scheme fit in zone coverage and was said to be struggling with the zone concepts. 

 

 

- Benjamin played all of 6 games for us. He was injured. He had surgery though and should be 100% by training camp. He's been a legit #1 WR so far in his young career. We got him for a 3rd and 5th. And guess what, if he walks we likely get a 3rd round comp pick back. 

 

On one one hand you say we lost the Darby trade because we got a 3rd, and then on the other hand you'd say we lost the Benjamin trade because we gave up a 3rd... 

Its hard to compare a CB to a WR, but I would say that Benjamin is at least the same caliber of player Darby is, if not better. 

 

 

- Dareus wasn't worth the money and seemed to stop caring after he got paid. He wasn't playing anywhere near his 2014 level on the field and looked lazy and/or like he didn't even care half the time, and he wasn't buying in. He was the Bills highest paid player and would have had a huge cap hit this coming season (and a couple more after that). You need your highest paid players to be setting the example for the rest of the team, and Dareus was setting a terrible example.

 

What type of message does it send to the rest of the team if the Bills keep Dareus around at his salary? IMO it sends a bad one. How serious are the Bills going to take McBeane if they let their highest paid player get away with many of the things they are preaching against? They were trying to change a 17 year losing culture and shipping out Dareus was a big part of that IMO. 

 

The Bills ditched an overpaid, underperforming veteran who is one failed drug test away from a 1 year ban, saved themselves something like $50M on their future cap and actually got a pick back for him! Look at the Jets - Wilkerson situation. Very similar to the Bills - Dareus situation, except he hasn't has the drug and legal issues Dareus has. They couldn't get a thing for Mo so they released him. 

 

I'm glad we traded our biggest cap hit for a 5th round pick. That trade wasn't good, I'd rather eat the money and take a chance on Dareus than whatever we get in the 5th. 

 

Benjamin has not shown he is a 1. He had a good rookie year, and has struggled since and is damaged goods. 

 

Claiming these are undoubtedly good moves is just being a homer. They are not good moves. Benjamin can pan out to be a good move. Even  though I think it's more of a personality/familiarity thing. Trading Watkins, then trading for Benjamin and approaching the same contract issue with him makes no sense. 

[Dadonkadonk]

3 hours ago, Hurricane Marv said:

 

 

Respected 8-year vet that's spent a ton of time in the division and has been to the Pro Bowl

 

vs.

 

"guy off the street"

 

Please tell me more about how these two are the same.

They aren't the same. One costs over $2M per year is past his prime by three years and the other barely makes league minimum.  Both likely can get the same number of carries and yards. Both are probably better than Tolbert.  TD Mike was cheap and effective. Now we have two years of expensive and below average. 

The only thing this signing does is cross one hole off the list letting them draft more linemen.

[BillsFan4]

2 hours ago, Ol Dirty B said:

I'm glad we traded our biggest cap hit for a 5th round pick. That trade wasn't good, I'd rather eat the money and take a chance on Dareus than whatever we get in the 5th. 

 

Benjamin has not shown he is a 1. He had a good rookie year, and has struggled since and is damaged goods. 

 

Claiming these are undoubtedly good moves is just being a homer. They are not good moves. Benjamin can pan out to be a good move. Even  though I think it's more of a personality/familiarity thing. Trading Watkins, then trading for Benjamin and approaching the same contract issue with him makes no sense. 

I never once claimed that they were undoubtably good moves. I was addressing NastyNate, who said that they were undoubtably bad moves and I just don't see how you can say that yet (and I gave my reasons as to why). 

 

I personally like the trades so far, but my whole point was that it's way too early to say with such certainty whether we won or lost them yet. Time will tell.

 

So I definitely wouldn't call that being a homer. Id call it being rational. And I don't see anything wrong with trying/choosing to look at the positive side for now, instead of focusing on the negative. It's something I always try and do. I don't understand the point of even following the Bills if someone chooses to look at every move in a negative light (not saying you do, just some fans in general). 

 

 

- disagree on Dareus for the reason I outlined in my previous post. If you like to refute some of the specific reasons I gave as to why, I can respond further. 

 

- I thought Benjamin was pretty good his sophomore year too. Actually, I think he's been pretty good most of the time he's on the field. He's definitely dealt with injuries but I don't think I'd say he is damaged goods. Let's see what happens going forward. 

 

- Benjamin is under contract this year, where as Sammy is a free agent. 

Trading away Watkins and trading for Benjamin makes a whole lot more sense when you look at the entire situation. Sammy admitted himself that his attitude in Buffalo was garbage, and that he was selfish, angry and consumed (by that anger). He said it had a negative impact on his relationship with the coaches and his teammates. He was a loner here. He talked about how he would be upset after games the WON just because he didn't get the ball enough. He said all he cared about were his own numbers. Nickel Robey said of Watkins in Buffalo - 

"In Buffalo, he wasn't open with anyone, he wasn't talking with anyone. He was self centered..." 

Benjamin is exactly the opposite. He's known to be a great teammate. He fits the culture the Bills are trying to build. Watkins didn't.

This new regime is getting rid of poisonous players like Watkins + Dareus and building an actual team. So far is say that it seems to be working... the culture around this team seems night and day different than it's been. 

 

 

 

Edited March 7, 2018 by BillsFan4

[Turk71]

3 hours ago, Hurricane Marv said:

Signing over the hill dime-a-dozen veteran RBs has worked for last two Super Bowl champs (*cough* Blount *cough*)

Blount scored 18 tds and won a SB with NE two years ago, went unsigned for months before signing with the Eagles for only 1.3 million and then winning another SB. Wonder how much he will get paid this year? Less than Ivory? I don't love or hate this signing, think they overpaid a little. I hope the change of scheme gives Ivory new life.

[Lfod]

2 hours ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

It says more about your lack of football knowledge that you never knew who Tolbert was.

 

You recognized a former division rival, so your team played him twice a year, and you remember his name. He must be good.

 

This is just a case of fans liking the new guy simply because he signed to your team. I wasn't a Tolbert fan, nor a fan of how they used him. Ivory is not much better than Tolbert, if at all. It's another old RB. I'm tired of signing old RB's. It's not just at the starting spot or guys who will get carries, Taiwan Jones and Banyard were old too. They are what they are and will only decline. In my opinion they don't bring anything to the table that a younger guy with potential could bring. 

 

I'm glad we traded our biggest cap hit for a 5th round pick. That trade wasn't good, I'd rather eat the money and take a chance on Dareus than whatever we get in the 5th. 

 

Benjamin has not shown he is a 1. He had a good rookie year, and has struggled since and is damaged goods. 

#1 Bolded I won't argue with you until I see him in the system in place and running. I am open to the possibility Ivory getting stuffed and fumbling. I definitely think the Bills need a stronger left punch so I'm happy they at least made a move in a direction to improve it.

 

Although I wouldn't disagree with wanting to have a younger guy with potential. I'm actually all in favor of any move going into the season as long as it addresses the offense. So if it happened the way you wanted I would agree with that as well. Anything to not settle for 3 points. 

 

#2 Bolded will never be about what the Bills get with a 5th round pick. That move was never anything about what the Bills could actually get in a trade for Dareus. The Bills didn't want Dareus so bad they took anything just to remove him from the team.

 

Again I can't really argue the move was good until I see what Bills do after the stink from that clears out. I also think it was a last resort and not something they just did. 

 

#3 Bolded I won't argue that he is a #1. To his credit those direct hits to his legs in those games looked brutal. The move was also made in the heat of the moment to get a big receiver for a short struggling quarter back. It could also be a good move for the future if the team takes advantage of having a large target. 

 

A lot of this stuff has to play out a little more more before I judge. I like the moves and I could be wrong. So although I don't disagree these could be bad moves I still haven't seen a negative impact from it. The Bills made the playoffs so out of all the bad that happened I would say it was a more positive year then what the people who didn't like these moves would predicted probably.

 

At least you can agree we would not have not leaned into the playoffs if these moves really hurt the team badly. 

 

Ivory gets frequently stuffed next season and fumbles and it doesn't help Shady get production and he's getting stuffed as well then I'll 100% agree the move sucked bad. 

 

If Kelvin Benjamin can't be productive or gets injured a few times next season then it was a bad move I will agree.

 

If Dareus restores himself and the Bills can't work around the cost of cutting him and the defense falls off a cliff next season then I will agree it was a bad move.

 

The defense did hold the Jags to 10 in the playoffs they did all I could ask for. So I wouldn't say removing Dareus hurt the team badly.

 

If next season the negative things I mention happen I don't think there will be many who would argue in favor of the moves anymore. 

 

 

Edited March 7, 2018 by Lfod

[njbuff]

A 4th round prospect I really like is Kalen Ballage.

 

The signing of Ivory shouldn't stop the Bills from drafting him.

 

Also, if the Bills like a RB prospect in the higher rounds, that shouldn't stop the Bills either.

 

Point is, the Bills were woefully short at the RB position last year and for a run-heavy team, the lack of bodies at RB could have EASILY cost them a playoff spot.

[Thurman#1]

16 hours ago, RochesterRob said:

  Let's not get carried away here.  I like picks as much as anybody but usually comps start at the end of the third round where there most definitely is no sure thing.  There is something to be said for signing known quantities.  Hopefully, our FO is squared away in terms of figuring it out.

 

 

FAs aren't sure things either. Picks are cheaper and you generally get 'em for longer.

 

 

 

How good is Ivory these days?

 

I remember really liking him a few years ago, but his last two years he's posted YPCs of 3.8 in 2016 and an awful 3.4 last year. I didn't see much if any of him so I don't know why, but that's a major dropoff from his older figures. 

 

On a team that managed 4.2 YPC last year, although Bortles managing more than 6 YPC certainly pumped that up. Didn't they have a pretty decent OL? Were teams keying on the run game?

[JM57]

2 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

FAs aren't sure things either. Picks are cheaper and you generally get 'em for longer.

 

 

 

How good is Ivory these days?

 

I remember really liking him a few years ago, but his last two years he's posted YPCs of 3.8 in 2016 and an awful 3.4 last year. I didn't see much if any of him so I don't know why, but that's a major dropoff from his older figures. 

 

On a team that managed 4.2 YPC last year, although Bortles managing more than 6 YPC certainly pumped that up. Didn't they have a pretty decent OL? Were teams keying on the run game?

It seems to me that there's a bit of a trend between the Marrone/Hackett offense and a declining YPC. Happened here with Spiller and Jackson after Gailey was fired. Ivory had a big dip in YPC going from NYJ to JAX. 

 

It would be easy to chalk it up to age, of course, but he really doesn't have a lot of miles on him for being 29 going on 30 since he was so lightly used as part of the committee in New Orleans at the start of his career. I think this is a decent stopgap signing. Not great, not awful. A definite improvement over Tolbert. Now get a rookie understudy for the long term.

[Doc]

7 hours ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

It says more about your lack of football knowledge that you never knew who Tolbert was.

 

You recognized a former division rival, so your team played him twice a year, and you remember his name. He must be good.

 

This is just a case of fans liking the new guy simply because he signed to your team. I wasn't a Tolbert fan, nor a fan of how they used him. Ivory is not much better than Tolbert, if at all. It's another old RB. I'm tired of signing old RB's. It's not just at the starting spot or guys who will get carries, Taiwan Jones and Banyard were old too. They are what they are and will only decline. In my opinion they don't bring anything to the table that a younger guy with potential could bring. 

 

I'm glad we traded our biggest cap hit for a 5th round pick. That trade wasn't good, I'd rather eat the money and take a chance on Dareus than whatever we get in the 5th. 

 

Benjamin has not shown he is a 1. He had a good rookie year, and has struggled since and is damaged goods. 

 

Claiming these are undoubtedly good moves is just being a homer. They are not good moves. Benjamin can pan out to be a good move. Even  though I think it's more of a personality/familiarity thing. Trading Watkins, then trading for Benjamin and approaching the same contract issue with him makes no sense. 

 

So despite your dissatisfaction with the moves made last year, the Bills made the playoffs and changed the culture. What does/should that tell you?

[Royale with Cheese]

4 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

FAs aren't sure things either. Picks are cheaper and you generally get 'em for longer.

 

 

 

How good is Ivory these days?

 

I remember really liking him a few years ago, but his last two years he's posted YPCs of 3.8 in 2016 and an awful 3.4 last year. I didn't see much if any of him so I don't know why, but that's a major dropoff from his older figures. 

 

On a team that managed 4.2 YPC last year, although Bortles managing more than 6 YPC certainly pumped that up. Didn't they have a pretty decent OL? Were teams keying on the run game?

 

Well I guess the best way to answer this is Fournette averaged 3.9 ypc.  He was their "star" running back but didn't have the ideal ypc you'd like to have.

I don't think Ivory will have a problem being up above 4.0 ypc with the Bills.

[Doc]

2 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Well I guess the best way to answer this is Fournette averaged 3.9 ypc.  He was their "star" running back but didn't have the ideal ypc you'd like to have.

I don't think Ivory will have a problem being up above 4.0 ypc with the Bills.

 

I agree. Assuming the Bills return to the pre-Dennison blocking schemes. 

[thebandit27]

14 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I don't like paying Ivory that much considering the stance they took on Gillislee last year........but like you I do like that McD and Beane seem to understand their roster limitations and (wisely, IMO) know that they don't want to take a step back now if they can avoid it.

 

Going from one of the very oldest teams in 2017 to even an "average aged" one without the benefit of all the prime-age players they let walk or traded in the "culture purge" is going to take some time and it's re-assuring that they aren't delusional about the cost of doing business this way.   Seen too many regimes go thru here that seemed clueless about what they had and/or lacked or were all too willing to fail.    

 

I'll agree that it's quite apparent that this group knows what they're doing, and behaving as though they do is going to inspire confidence.  Now, whether or not what they do works is obviously going to determine the efficacy of their approach, but in the meantime it sure does feel nice.

 

32 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

I agree. Assuming the Bills return to the pre-Dennison blocking schemes. 

 

I'll be very interested to see if he can adjust to whatever blocking scheme Daboll likes to run.  Last year, Ivory had the 10th-lowest yardage efficiency on his carries, which isn't good for a guy that has such a physical running style.

[LabattBlue]

For al those losing sleep over this signing, is it possible that a 29 year old journeyman RB doesn’t even survive training camp?

Edited March 7, 2018 by LabattBlue

[Guest K-GunJimKelly12]

3 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

For al those losing sleep over this signing, is it possible that a 29 year old journeyman RB doesn’t even survive training camp?

It's kind of unbelievable what people are reading into this.  WGR has already determined that we are going ground and pound for the next few years and have no desire to have any sort of passing game.  People on the board are losing their minds as if we can't sign or draft any other backs now.  It's ridiculous. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

6 hours ago, Lfod said:

#1 Bolded I won't argue with you until I see him in the system in place and running. I am open to the possibility Ivory getting stuffed and fumbling. I definitely think the Bills need a stronger left punch so I'm happy they at least made a move in a direction to improve it.

 

Although I wouldn't disagree with wanting to have a younger guy with potential. I'm actually all in favor of any move going into the season as long as it addresses the offense. So if it happened the way you wanted I would agree with that as well. Anything to not settle for 3 points. 

 

#2 Bolded will never be about what the Bills get with a 5th round pick. That move was never anything about what the Bills could actually get in a trade for Dareus. The Bills didn't want Dareus so bad they took anything just to remove him from the team.

 

Again I can't really argue the move was good until I see what Bills do after the stink from that clears out. I also think it was a last resort and not something they just did. 

 

#3 Bolded I won't argue that he is a #1. To his credit those direct hits to his legs in those games looked brutal. The move was also made in the heat of the moment to get a big receiver for a short struggling quarter back. It could also be a good move for the future if the team takes advantage of having a large target. 

 

A lot of this stuff has to play out a little more more before I judge. I like the moves and I could be wrong. So although I don't disagree these could be bad moves I still haven't seen a negative impact from it. The Bills made the playoffs so out of all the bad that happened I would say it was a more positive year then what the people who didn't like these moves would predicted probably.

 

At least you can agree we would not have not leaned into the playoffs if these moves really hurt the team badly. 

 

Ivory gets frequently stuffed next season and fumbles and it doesn't help Shady get production and he's getting stuffed as well then I'll 100% agree the move sucked bad. 

 

If Kelvin Benjamin can't be productive or gets injured a few times next season then it was a bad move I will agree.

 

If Dareus restores himself and the Bills can't work around the cost of cutting him and the defense falls off a cliff next season then I will agree it was a bad move.

 

The defense did hold the Jags to 10 in the playoffs they did all I could ask for. So I wouldn't say removing Dareus hurt the team badly.

 

If next season the negative things I mention happen I don't think there will be many who would argue in favor of the moves anymore. 

 

 

 

Trading Dareus was done so that he wouldn't hurt our cap in 2019.  His 2018 base salary was guaranteed so we would have had to trade him, as cutting him was a higher cap hit.  We did get Milano in the 5th last year, so its not as if there aren't players to be had in that round, but it was really a salary dump to avoid having to split the cap charge into 2019.