Rams will not tag Watkins

[section122]

55 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Did we?  We got a 2nd round pick and a cornerback that played 59% of the team's defensive snaps, and looks unlikely to be retained.

 

The Rams got a WR1 that played 75% of the team's offensive snaps  and lead them in yards/catch, yards/target, and receiving TDs...he also appears to be likely to be retained.

 

We may not have lost the trade, but I don't see how we won it.  Now, maybe if the 2nd round pick we got from LA will turn into a great player, and then we can say that we won the trade, but until then, the jury's out.

 

Bandit I know you love Sammy's talent and I do as well.  However at some point the production needs to match the talent.  He was 4th in targets, 4th in yards, yes he was 1st in ypc beating Gerald Everett by .1 which in shows it isn't necessarily an indicator of success.  

 

I know you were arguing against stating the Bills clearly won the trade and the Rams lost so I will leave that part alone but I think the Bills did very well in this trade.  Much better than I initially thought when i felt like someone had kicked my dog.  Finding out about his attitude after made it an easier pill to swallow.  Seeing his lack of production did as well.  Watching the Bills offense struggle without him, specifically the passing game, reminded me that he was missed.  Would be interested to see how Rams fans feel about this trade.  I agree though the final determination will be after seeing if he re-signs and what the Bills do with the 2nd.

 

BTW Sammy's average game in 2018 was 3.25 catches for 49.4 yards and .75 tds.  Those are not WR1 numbers.  TDs are fluky from year to year especially for wrs so 3 catches for 49 yards a game.  Those are not great numbers.  

Just now, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Nonsense. Sammy gave everything he had. He had major injury problems throughout his time here and his effectiveness was hurt by that, but you can't find one teammate, coach or person from OBD who will say anything like what you're saying here. It's all fans saying this stuff, the people who don't know.

 

Watkins went on to acknowledge that he was selfish during his time with the Bills as he was dealing with a foot injury and that it hurt relationships with his coaches and fellow teammates. He even went as far to say that at times, he cared more about his own individual production than the team winning games.

“I felt like I was consumed, and I was angry,” Watkins said. “It was affecting my relationships with the coaches and with the players. I wanted to be great so bad, but I was also selfish, too. Because there were some games that we won and I didn’t get the ball, and I was upset.”

 

He might not have been dogging it but the above quotes are a terrible look in what is probably the ultimate team sport.

[CommonCents]

1 minute ago, thebandit27 said:

 

I mentioned snap percentage to highlight the fact that the played WR1 snaps for LA.

 

When I talk about the rotation that McVay uses, here's the discussion point: he loaded his team up with speed players and dressed 6-7 WRs each week (the Rams were the only team in the NFL with 6 WRs that played in 20% of their snaps--and they did it without any of their WRs suffering a major injury).  He would play his No. 3-6 WRs more than any other coach by my count, which kept them fresher than the DBs that were playing 70+ snaps per game, and gave them a decided advantage.

 

When your No. 3 target has an advantage over the guy covering him, it's far more likely you're going to go that way with the ball.

Could it be that 5/16 of their games were blowouts? That would definetly favor lesser receivers getting more snaps. I guarantee if you look at a 44-7 victory, or a 52-17 that's where the percentages get skewed. They had 5 legit blowouts.

[Chicken Boo]

In an offensive friendly system, he amassed 39 rec. 593yds.

 

He's a bit overrated by Bills fans.  The potential is there for sure, but we all know what potential means.

[HappyDays]

12 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Sorry, but that argument doesn't hold water when you look at the routes he ran and the catches he made last year.

 

Just a sample:

 

 

Was that video all his catches on the year 

 

In all seriousness I saw exactly one catch that I would classify as a contested catch. I saw exactly one play where he managed to break a tackle and fight for extra yards, and that play gave him a concussion that took him out the rest of the game. Sammy has elite hands and ball tracking skills, and very good speed. His physicality IMO is average to below average. That's where the great WRs make their money. He also dogs it on too many plays, he himself has admitted this.

[Thurman#1]

37 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Yes, exactly, what that pick turns into is an unknown, and it's entirely germane to the point, vis-a-vis known quantity versus unknown quantity.

 

 

Yeah, but they didn't trade for what the pick turns into

 

They traded for the pick. The pick itself. 

 

Which has a pretty specific value. Again, it's not an unknown. It's #56. It's 340 points on the chart. 

 

How Beane and McDermott use the pick will be a totally different series of decisions. And those will be worthy of praise or censure. But it won't be the trade people will be talking about, it will be the decision on who to draft.

 

Same as if you spend $500 to buy stock in a company that goes bankrupt. It wasn't the $500 in cash that was the problem. Spend that same $500 on Apple's first public offering in 1980 and become a zillionaire. It won't be the brilliant move of how you earned the $500 people will be talking about. 

 

If people do mention the trade it'll be a "and coincidentally, the pick which got them [the player] was from the Sammy Watkins trade. An interesting coincidence, yeah?" kind of mention.

Edited March 6, 2018 by Thurman#1

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

10 minutes ago, What a Tuel said:

 

This makes you sound small. No offense.

 

 

I am compared to selfish millionaire nfl player, so not offended at all. I made a very comfortable life for myself and my family and I was never selfish in doing so.

[thebandit27]

6 minutes ago, Commonsense said:

Could it be that 5/16 of their games were blowouts? That would definetly favor lesser receivers getting more snaps. I guarantee if you look at a 44-7 victory, or a 52-17 that's where the percentages get skewed. They had 5 legit blowouts.

 

You would be incorrect about that.

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/A/AustTa00/fantasy/2017

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/CoopPh00/fantasy/2017

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/ReynJo00/fantasy/2017

 

Generally pretty flat for everyone besides Reynolds, who got more opportunities late in the season

4 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Was that video all his catches on the year 

 

In all seriousness I saw exactly one catch that I would classify as a contested catch. I saw exactly one play where he managed to break a tackle and fight for extra yards, and that play gave him a concussion that took him out the rest of the game. Sammy has elite hands and ball tracking skills, and very good speed. His physicality IMO is average to below average. That's where the great WRs make their money. He also dogs it on too many plays, he himself has admitted this.

 

No offense intended here, but I believe that you're seeing what you want to see.

 

All I said from the beginning is that I don't see how Buffalo "won" the trade to this point, and I haven't really seen anything that convinces me otherwise.

[YoloinOhio]

19 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

 

well then he will probably need to take less money to get on a vet qb team. but i dont see too many teams with vet qbs that need a big money wideout. if he thinks thats what he is. His only options will be teams with rookie qbs imo.  

Dallas (if they move on from Dez who is more of a #2 now), SF, Carolina, Indy all have “franchise” QBs and could use a WR like him. 2 year deal at 10 mill/yr isn’t really big money for a #1.

 

depending on how he feels about Trubisky, that’s another potential landing spot 

 

his best bet, as he’s so young, is to sign a short term deal where he is in position to put up big #s, then be a FA again at about age 26

Edited March 6, 2018 by YoloinOhio

[Pete]

1 hour ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

 y’all mad and I’m not get a life and goto work stop worrying about my job because I’m good on this end and forever will be losers most of you just wish to be in this position so continue working y’all little jobs for the rest of y’all lives 

is english his second language?

[section122]

Just now, YoloinOhio said:

Dallas (if they move on from Dez who is more of a #2 now), SF, Carolina all have “franchise” QBs and could use a WR like him. 2 year deal at 10 mill/yr isn’t really big money for a #1.

 

his best bet, as he’s so young, is to sign a short term deal where he is in position to put up big #s, then be a FA again at about age 26

 

Does Dak qualify as a franchise qb?  I think the shine really came off of him when Elliott was out last year.  Will be interesting to see if he rebounds this year.

 

I absolutely agree with the bolded.  I really think San Fran is his ideal landing spot.  

[CommonCents]

2 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

You would be incorrect about that.

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/A/AustTa00/fantasy/2017

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/CoopPh00/fantasy/2017

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/ReynJo00/fantasy/2017

 

Generally pretty flat for everyone besides Reynolds, who got more opportunities late in the season

 

No offense intended here, but I believe that you're seeing what you want to see.

 

All I said from the beginning is that I don't see how Buffalo "won" the trade to this point, and I haven't really seen anything that convinces me otherwise.

 No you're wrong lol and reaching.

 

look at week 16 Cooper played 98 percent of the snaps and Reynolds played 78. Watkins, Cupp and Woods sat out because they were all clinched up.

 

the only other times Cooper played 20 percent of the snaps...

 

Colts game 33 percent, Rams won 46-9

Giants game 20 percent Rams won 51-17

Seattle game 22 percent, Rams won 42-7

week 16, starters sit 98 percent

 

those are the only games he played over 20 percent of the snaps.

 

[seregil42]

I feel like I've seen this debate with Lee Evans before.

[The Jokeman]

56 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

I think the Bills will draft a WR relatively high (2nd) and throw an offer sheet at an RFA like Adam Humphries from the Bucs. They would need to seriously overpay for any UFA WR with this QB sitch.

Why? We have two solid starters in Benjamin and Jones. Holmes was as good 4th/red zone WR. I think we could see someone come in to be our slot guy and replace Tate as our return man. To me Bruce Ellington be a perfect fit, In terms of draft Braxton Barrios might be the best option late. 

[Guest K-GunJimKelly12]

Watkins will never be a true great receiver because he relies on his talent too much and doesn't do the little things well.  It doesn't matter how talented a receiver you are if you leave plays on the field because you are too soft too attack the ball in the air.  It was hard to see because the QB play was so poor when they were here  but Woods is clearly a better receiver than Watkins.  Route running, attacking the ball  blocking, etc., Woods is better at all of those things and even if their salaries are the same, Woods gives a team more towards winning than Watkins does.  Anyone who signs Watkins to a big deal will regret it.

[Thurman#1]

26 minutes ago, section122 said:

 

Bandit I know you love Sammy's talent and I do as well.  However at some point the production needs to match the talent.  He was 4th in targets, 4th in yards, yes he was 1st in ypc beating Gerald Everett by .1 which in shows it isn't necessarily an indicator of success.  

 

I know you were arguing against stating the Bills clearly won the trade and the Rams lost so I will leave that part alone but I think the Bills did very well in this trade.  Much better than I initially thought when i felt like someone had kicked my dog.  Finding out about his attitude after made it an easier pill to swallow.  Seeing his lack of production did as well.  Watching the Bills offense struggle without him, specifically the passing game, reminded me that he was missed.  Would be interested to see how Rams fans feel about this trade.  I agree though the final determination will be after seeing if he re-signs and what the Bills do with the 2nd.

 

BTW Sammy's average game in 2018 was 3.25 catches for 49.4 yards and .75 tds.  Those are not WR1 numbers.  TDs are fluky from year to year especially for wrs so 3 catches for 49 yards a game.  Those are not great numbers.  

 

Watkins went on to acknowledge that he was selfish during his time with the Bills as he was dealing with a foot injury and that it hurt relationships with his coaches and fellow teammates. He even went as far to say that at times, he cared more about his own individual production than the team winning games.

“I felt like I was consumed, and I was angry,” Watkins said. “It was affecting my relationships with the coaches and with the players. I wanted to be great so bad, but I was also selfish, too. Because there were some games that we won and I didn’t get the ball, and I was upset.”

 

He might not have been dogging it but the above quotes are a terrible look in what is probably the ultimate team sport.

 

 

Nah, that was actually a pretty good look. Know what a genuinely selfish guy does there? He doesn't even think those things, much less say them out loud. Did we ever hear T.O. saying stuff like that? This is a young kid growing up.

 

And there's no indication whatsoever there that he was dogging it. 

 

The concerns about Sammy are production, injuries and the price it would take to bring him in.

 

 

[baskingridgebillsfan]

Sammie at 10 per year is going to workout well for some team.  The talent has always been there. He is still very young.  I would love to have him back but it ain't happening 

[CommonCents]

And you guessed it, same exact scenario with Josh Reynolds the only time he eclipsed 20 percent was in those blowouts and the final game of the season. The exception being the game Woods was out injured, Reynolds played really well that day.

Edited March 6, 2018 by Commonsense

[aristocrat]

7 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Dallas (if they move on from Dez who is more of a #2 now), SF, Carolina, Indy all have “franchise” QBs and could use a WR like him. 2 year deal at 10 mill/yr isn’t really big money for a #1.

 

depending on how he feels about Trubisky, that’s another potential landing spot 

 

his best bet, as he’s so young, is to sign a short term deal where he is in position to put up big #s, then be a FA again at about age 26

 

cowboys dont have the space. panthers maybe and i did think about them but they don't seem to spend on free agents but the clemson connection could be enticing. cam loved that deep threat with steve smith.  chi is probable and that's a young qb. 

[Kirby Jackson]

I think some people here are going to be surprised to see the contract that Sammy gets. We will hear a lot of, “OMG, that is way too much money for a guy with....” It is very possible that he gets a bigger deal than Landry (assuming Landry signs an extension). Sammy is going to get PAID to be someone’s number 1 WR. I’m thinking in the $14M annually range of Demaryius Thomas deal.

[corta765]

1 hour ago, JaCrispy said:

Effing SF....so unfair how they were basically given a franchise QB for free...when will the bills run into that kind of luck?

 

BB loves Kyle Shanahan and wanted Jimmy G with a coach who could maximize his talents not in the AFC. It has been rumored that once BB retires he may be an advisor at minimum for the 49ers. So the deal was in a sense a gift to the 49ers but also one carefully orchestrated by BB. No way he wanted him going to an AFC team like CLE who could ruin him. If Jimmy G does well it only furthers Bill's legacy as a QB developer also.