whatdrought Posted March 5, 2018 Posted March 5, 2018 Just now, KelsaysLunchbox said: Joe Flacco, Malcolm Smith, Santanio Holmes, Deion Branch, Dexter Jackson, Desmond Howard, Larry Brown, Mark Rypien, Otis Anderson. All Super Bowl MVPs. Josh Rosen, Sam Darnold, Baker Mayfield, Josh Allen, Mason Rudolph, Lamar Jackson, Mike White, Luke Falk, Kyle Lauletta. All not Super Bowl MVPs. Again. Risk v. Reward. 2
Jamie Muellers Ghost Posted March 5, 2018 Posted March 5, 2018 We need to start thinking in the mind of Daboll on QB. Would he come here from ALA, shun the Pats if McDaniel's left without a QB plan ? I think then we can start connecting some dots when we start thinking along these lines.
BuffaloBillyG Posted March 5, 2018 Posted March 5, 2018 16 minutes ago, whatdrought said: Josh Rosen, Sam Darnold, Baker Mayfield, Josh Allen, Mason Rudolph, Lamar Jackson, Mike White, Luke Falk, Kyle Lauletta. All not Super Bowl MVPs. Again. Risk v. Reward. True, and none have had an opportunity. Lets not judge a fish on his ability to climb a tree. Most of those same names all have the opportunity to far exceed Nick Foles. There's a heck of a reward. Nick Foles is the ugly girl in the bar, who you know you can take home and I even heard she makes a decent pancake. We should settle on that right? That "10" that walked in? Haven't heard about her pancake skills...so no need to chase that. Why risk a bad ? 17 minutes ago, Jamie Muellers Ghost said: We need to start thinking in the mind of Daboll on QB. Would he come here from ALA, shun the Pats if McDaniel's left without a QB plan ? I think then we can start connecting some dots when we start thinking along these lines. I've heard Daboll does well adapting the offense to his team. I have to think Daboll may like that Jackson has experience in the E-P offense. Ultimately Beane did say he wasn't basing the decision on who fits the offense because Daboll could be gone in a year or two "as a HC himself".
Reed83HOF Posted March 5, 2018 Author Posted March 5, 2018 1 hour ago, KelsaysLunchbox said: Taking Nick Foles and calling that good enough for now would be terribly uninspiring. But very Billsy!
whatdrought Posted March 5, 2018 Posted March 5, 2018 7 minutes ago, KelsaysLunchbox said: True, and none have had an opportunity. Lets not judge a fish on his ability to climb a tree. Most of those same names all have the opportunity to far exceed Nick Foles. There's a heck of a reward. Nick Foles is the ugly girl in the bar, who you know you can take home and I even heard she makes a decent pancake. We should settle on that right? That "10" that walked in? Haven't heard about her pancake skills...so no need to chase that. Why risk a bad ? And each of them all have just as much opportunity to fall far below Nick Foles. In fact, I would bet good money that 75% of those guys will never play in the Superbowl, let alone win the MVP of the Superbowl. Let me ask you this. Is there a complete football game by an NFL QB that you think can be better than the last two Foles played in? (as in, what's the very best that a QB can do) 1
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted March 5, 2018 Posted March 5, 2018 2 hours ago, John from Riverside said: You mean like Lamar Jackson? Ugh.
Reed83HOF Posted March 5, 2018 Author Posted March 5, 2018 (edited) Brandon Beane on QBs From May 2017 Brandon Beane: Well, you know, I've been around all shapes and sizes... from Steve Beuerlein, to Steve Bono, to Jake Delhomme, to Cam Newton. The one thing that you have to have: you have to have the intangibles. You have to have the leadership qualities. You've got to get guys to follow you. It is a quarterback league, and if you don't have the leadership in the other guys, that's 11 guys on the field -- if they're not following you, it just doesn't work. I've seen quarterbacks that have arm talent. We've known the names in this league -- I'm not going to call them out -- that have all the talent in the world and they've been first-round picks.... but they aren't leaders. You've got to start there. You want to be able to have a passer that can throw from the pocket. It's good to be mobile... we love that. And obviously, Tyrod brings that, and I think Peterman has some things like that. You know, all these guys have some different qualities... there's not one thing, but, at the end of the day, quarterbacks in the NFL must be able to throw from the pocket. Joe B: What's tougher to teach in your opinion... or, what's tougher to learn in the NFL: arm strength, or accuracy? Brandon Beane: You know, you love arm strength. You can't teach arm strength. You can probably improve it a little bit... ... But, the accuracy is very important. You know, the guys are not as open in the pros as they are in college, and so, it will show if you've got a guy that's inaccurate from the pocket. Joe B: One more on the QBs. Do you like your quarterbacks to take some chances every once and again? Because like you said, tight windows in the NFL, and it almost necessitates it. Brandon Beane: Yeah, I mean, calculated risk... whatever you want to call it. There are some times when they are going to have to thread the needle. It's third and long, and it's late in the game, and we've got to get this play, and they're going to put a spy on the quarterback or something like that... he's got to stand in there, trust his reads, trust his progressions... and sling it and make the throw. You have to do that. In college, you see a lot of running quarterbacks that can just make a play with their own. Everything breaks down and it becomes sandlot football, and you do see some plays in the NFL, but the speed is so different here. It takes a special player to do it, and to do it often... and again, the pounding that you take. We saw that in Carolina last year. Cam took more hits last year than he had in the previous years, so, it's a tough league. And again, I'll go back to it: You have to be able to throw from the pocket. From July 2017 "It's a quarterback league. I mean, who are we kidding?" Beane said. "If you look at the playoffs teams, the consistent guys that at least qualify for the playoffs or are close every year, most of them have QBs, most of them have a legit quarterback. If you want to use the word franchise, whatever word you want to use, so I understand that. Cam in Carolina was, is, a franchise quarterback. If you're a GM, you have to find a franchise quarterback. It obviously helps keep you on a consistent playing field if you have one, so I get that." So what does Beane look for in a quarterback? "Obviously, you draw them up, from a physical standpoint, they look like Cam (Newton)," Beane said. "But how many are there like that? You want a guy, the stature, the height, you know, they're standing over, they're not worried about linemen in their face. It gives them the vision and all that. Arm strength. But the one thing that people I think miss a little bit when they're watching, you know, the college game schematically has just been so dummied down that these guys know before the ball's snapped right where they're going. There's no progressions. There's no audibiling. That's the challenge that the college guys have, and it's brutal. And these quarterbacks that are getting drafted high that have never taken a snap from center, have never called an audible. That's tough. The intangibles are the other thing that you can't necessarily measure from the film. I can turn on the film and watch some things. You obviously want to see quarterbacks live, but what's this guy's makeup? What's his leadership? Do guys rally behind him? I go back to Carolina. Jake Delhomme, one of the greatest leaders I've ever been around. He was undrafted. The guy willed himself to lead the team the years he was in Carolina. His intangibles were a 12 on a one-to-10 scale. And that's how he overcame his athletic limitations. I kind of went around the question a little bit, but you're looking for a lot of things, some of it physically we can all see. But a lot of it you can't necessarily see." From January 2018 "It's a quarterback league, and until you know you have the guy that you're definitely going to build this team around and the offense around, you're constantly searching," Beane said with Howard Simon and Jeremy White on WGR Wednesday morning. "The teams that makes the runs in the playoffs consistently have a franchise guy that they lean on year in and year out. We're still in the process of getting that accomplished." We'll talk to some of their teammates who were with them for several years in college, we'll talk to people back at their high school. We'll do anything and everything to really know who this person is, what makes them tick as a person, and obviously we'll get into the X's and O's. Doe he work hard in the film room? Does he understand what he's seeing? What has he been though? What's the system he's been in? Has he audibled plays? Does he call the plays out in the huddle? Does this guy take snaps from center? All of those things you have to go through, and we're basically just building a library on each player." I'm going to get one that I think is the right guy for our team, for this organization, and skill set wise that we're looking for. Good coaches will take whatever this quarterback's strengths are and work it into the offense. We all know if you draft a guy for a certain coordinator or certain system, that guy goes on and does well and becomes a head coach, and a new guy comes in here and has a different system that doesn't fit the quarterback, that doesn't make sense. We'll draft a guy with a skill set that we think fits, and it will be up to the offensive coordinator and the offensive staff to accentuate whatever his strengths are and hide the weaknesses." Edit to add: I just looked at 3 different articles, but these are the 8 items that always come up 1.) If you're a GM, you have to have a franchise QB 2.) Leadership abilities 3.) Throw from the pocket 4.) Accuracy from the pocket very important - tighter windows 5.) Arm Strength - love it, can improve it a bit 6.) Stand in there - trust his reads, make the throws 7.) NFL too fast & different for sandlot football 8.) Good size - not worried about lineman in their face What rookies fit this profile: That is who we will target... Edited March 5, 2018 by Reed83HOF
BuffaloBillyG Posted March 5, 2018 Posted March 5, 2018 21 minutes ago, whatdrought said: And each of them all have just as much opportunity to fall far below Nick Foles. In fact, I would bet good money that 75% of those guys will never play in the Superbowl, let alone win the MVP of the Superbowl. Let me ask you this. Is there a complete football game by an NFL QB that you think can be better than the last two Foles played in? (as in, what's the very best that a QB can do) Without looking up stats...sure. Joe Flacco and his playoff run a few years back. Then what happened? I'm not disagreeing that Foles had 2 very good games in the big time. I really don't care about that though. At the end of the day it was just that...2 games. As you said a few posts back...he's not even the best option. And giving up picks to acquire him makes it even worse.
whatdrought Posted March 5, 2018 Posted March 5, 2018 (edited) 20 minutes ago, KelsaysLunchbox said: Without looking up stats...sure. Joe Flacco and his playoff run a few years back. Then what happened? I'm not disagreeing that Foles had 2 very good games in the big time. I really don't care about that though. At the end of the day it was just that...2 games. As you said a few posts back...he's not even the best option. And giving up picks to acquire him makes it even worse. 2 More games than any of the college guys. So theres that. My point regarding that is that his known ceiling is higher than anyone in the draft is. I can say with 100% certainty that Nick Foles is capable of throwing for 350 yards and 3 touchdowns in a game against a top ranked defense and also against the best coach the NFL has ever seen. I admit that it is possible he may never do those things again. I, however, cannot say with certainty that any of the QB's in this draft class are capable of doing that. So while it is a matter of risk vs reward, the reward is less hypothetical than with Foles. I do admit he isn't the best option. But I think he's a better option than most, and while I don't know what it really will take to pry him from Philly, I personally would rather give up 1 first round pick for him than give up 3 first round picks for any of the QB's in the draft. Edited March 5, 2018 by whatdrought
Doc Posted March 5, 2018 Posted March 5, 2018 Apparently a couple weeks ago the Eagles were offering Foles for Tre White and a 3rd rounder. The Bills declined. I'd bet good money they were the team that offered the 2nd rounder.
whatdrought Posted March 5, 2018 Posted March 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, Doc said: Apparently a couple weeks ago the Eagles were offering Foles for Tre White and a 3rd rounder. The Bills declined. I'd bet good money they were the team that offered the 2nd rounder. Where are you getting that info from?
Doc Posted March 5, 2018 Posted March 5, 2018 Just now, whatdrought said: Where are you getting that info from? A guy on another board who has legit inside info.
John from Riverside Posted March 5, 2018 Posted March 5, 2018 1 minute ago, Doc said: Apparently a couple weeks ago the Eagles were offering Foles for Tre White and a 3rd rounder. The Bills declined. I'd bet good money they were the team that offered the 2nd rounder. Tre White is gonna be a stud for us for years to come....im not giving him up for Foles
Doc Posted March 5, 2018 Posted March 5, 2018 Just now, John from Riverside said: Tre White is gonna be a stud for us for years to come....im not giving him up for Foles Yup. And neither are the Bills.
H2o Posted March 5, 2018 Posted March 5, 2018 Not gonna happen. They better sell high while they can, but no one is going to pony up that many assets for him. They will not get a 1st and surely not even a thought of more than a 1st and 4th.
HappyDays Posted March 5, 2018 Posted March 5, 2018 5 minutes ago, Doc said: Apparently a couple weeks ago the Eagles were offering Foles for Tre White and a 3rd rounder. Wow are they nuts? They won't get a return like that from any team. They're basically asking for two 1st rounders where one is a guaranteed solid starter at a minimum. I imagine as we get closer to the draft they will start seriously listening to more realistic offers. But good to know, thanks for the info. 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 5, 2018 Posted March 5, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, Reed83HOF said: Geoff MosherVerified account @GeoffMosherNFL FollowFollow @GeoffMosherNFL Source: #Eagles offered a second-round pick for Nick Foles: Edit - Update: Chris MortensenVerified account @mortreport 3m3 minutes ago Eagles have fielded - not solicited - more than one inquiry and offer for Nick Foles. Eagles' basic answer is it's going to take more than the 1st and 4th round picks they got from Vikings for Sam Bradford. Foles is Super Bowl MVP and best insurance policy in NFL. No doubt! I would think 1 first and 1 or 2 seconds, or a 1st, a 2nd and a player Although I like Foles, I see trading for Foles as the worst of both worlds. If we trade our draft for a QB, we can fill out the roster with FA. If we sign a FA QB, we can fill our roster with draft picks. If we trade our draft for a QB then pay the big bucks to resign him, I'm not sure what we do to fill our roster. Hope we have a great eye for cuts and UDFA I guess. Edited March 5, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan
Reed83HOF Posted March 5, 2018 Author Posted March 5, 2018 13 minutes ago, Doc said: Apparently a couple weeks ago the Eagles were offering Foles for Tre White and a 3rd rounder. The Bills declined. I'd bet good money they were the team that offered the 2nd rounder. I would trade him for the 1st or 2nd pick so we we can get a QB.... QB>>>>>>>>>>>>>CB
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted March 5, 2018 Posted March 5, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, Reed83HOF said: This would be awful if it is us btw... It’s not aweful if they offered a second but refused to go higher. That’s about the right price for a bridge. Especially with 2 1firsts, and 2 2nd’s, Edited March 5, 2018 by Over 29 years of fanhood
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