whatdrought Posted March 5, 2018 Posted March 5, 2018 4 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said: Cheaping out does not necessarily mean $$$. Yes we paid money and picks for RJ and then traded up for Losman; other than that it has been journeymen, backups et al. with this team. Also, I wouldn't be so sure to say it has nothing to do with money. Prior to the rookie cap, first round QBs cost a lot of money; after Donahoe and cash the cap - RW/Littman was not going to spend money on a top QB.... History is littered with SB MVPs who were not great players... Not good enough and he is already 29...waste of a #2 How does this compare to Mike White and Luke Faulk (believed to be mid to late second round picks) NFL career stats?
DCOrange Posted March 5, 2018 Posted March 5, 2018 I wouldn't be particularly happy about it, but I can at least kinda understand why Buffalo would do it. Definitely makes sense that it's Buffalo, New York, or Cleveland given the draft picks those 3 teams have.
billsbackto81 Posted March 5, 2018 Posted March 5, 2018 9 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: I was an advocate of Foles back when we were looking at bringing Tyrod back...... That said....Foles did not slay brady....the eagles are a mega talented well coached team.....and Foles took advantage of that (which he should...good for him) You could Foles and then draft Lamar Jackson as well I guess? Totally disagree. If Foles didn't slay Brady then what or who did? The Philly defense that gave up over 600 yards of offense? Foles went toe to toe with Brady and was unflappable tossing clutch throw after clutch throw. Is he the answer? Who knows. But we can do a lot worse than Foles for a second round pick.
Seanbillsfan2206 Posted March 5, 2018 Posted March 5, 2018 Just now, billsbackto81 said: Totally disagree. If Foles didn't slay Brady then what or who did? The Philly defense that gave up over 600 yards of offense? Foles went toe to toe with Brady and was unflappable tossing clutch throw after clutch throw. Is he the answer? Who knows. But we can do a lot worse than Foles for a second round pick. Stop making sense. You’ll confuse people
Reed83HOF Posted March 5, 2018 Author Posted March 5, 2018 1 minute ago, jaybee said: What planet are these fans from ? The same one that Whaley, Nix, Russ & Marv were from... We are split as a fan base between seeing the holes all over the team and trying to fill all of the holes vs shooting for a franchise guy who can elevate the play of the rest of the team. Trying to squeak by with building a team with an average at best QB gets you Jeff Fisher & what the Bills have been this decade 7-9 to 9-7 bull$hit that requires a lucky play by Dalton to get you in the playoffs... 1
billsbackto81 Posted March 5, 2018 Posted March 5, 2018 6 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: QBs dont slay each other.....they go against the other teams opposing defenses And the Eagles are stacked Yeah, they're loaded alright. Giving up 505 yards passing and over 100 yards rushing is reminiscent of the 85 Bears. 1
HumbleAndHungry Posted March 5, 2018 Posted March 5, 2018 How do we know this isn't just the Eagles trying to drive up the price for Foles
HappyDays Posted March 5, 2018 Posted March 5, 2018 7 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: QBs dont slay each other.....they go against the other teams opposing defenses And the Eagles are stacked But defense didn't win the Eagles their Super Bowl. Unstoppable offense did. And Foles played a bigger part in that than anyone on the team. Didn't the Pats only punt once the whole game? And they still lost... that's unheard of. 1
Reed83HOF Posted March 5, 2018 Author Posted March 5, 2018 3 minutes ago, whatdrought said: How does this compare to Mike White and Luke Faulk (believed to be mid to late second round picks) NFL career stats? I suppose you could compare the college career stats. I would assume that Falk/White will all be fairly similar to Foles, at that point I would take a shot with the rook. Might want one of our draft gurus to weigh in on this...
HappyDays Posted March 5, 2018 Posted March 5, 2018 31 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said: I can't say I hate this strategy. You have to cover all your bases, and as a GM it might take a different approach to this thing. The Eagles won the SB when many said they were a one and done in the playoffs without Wentz (I know I did). They didn't exactly play " small ball " in the playoffs either. There aren't 32 elite QBs, and it may take the Bills entire draft or close to it to move up high enough for a guy they may not be sold on. There's something to be said for keeping that draft capital, the Bills roster isn't as strong as say , PHI or MIN. The new strategy would be take a mid-rounds QB (Lauletta or White in my mind), and use other picks to build the team up around Foles. I wouldn't even mind using one of our 1sts on Foles. Our draft strategy last year was so good that we can afford to do that this year without losing out on a top player. 1
RochesterRob Posted March 5, 2018 Posted March 5, 2018 10 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said: Cheaping out does not necessarily mean $$$. Yes we paid money and picks for RJ and then traded up for Losman; other than that it has been journeymen, backups et al. with this team. Also, I wouldn't be so sure to say it has nothing to do with money. Prior to the rookie cap, first round QBs cost a lot of money; after Donahoe and cash the cap - RW/Littman was not going to spend money on a top QB.... History is littered with SB MVPs who were not great players... Not good enough and he is already 29...waste of a #2 He might be 29 but he probably has several years left barring disaster. Why is it that on one hand the trade up proponents have Eli and Brady penciled in for the same amount of time going forward and those two are 40ish in age yet it's real iffy that a guy nearly ten years younger can do the same?
Boatdrinks Posted March 5, 2018 Posted March 5, 2018 1 minute ago, Reed83HOF said: Cheaping out does not necessarily mean $$$. Yes we paid money and picks for RJ and then traded up for Losman; other than that it has been journeymen, backups et al. with this team. Also, I wouldn't be so sure to say it has nothing to do with money. Prior to the rookie cap, first round QBs cost a lot of money; after Donahoe and cash the cap - RW/Littman was not going to spend money on a top QB.... History is littered with SB MVPs who were not great players... Not good enough and he is already 29...waste of a #2 Ok, well the term " cheap" is generally associated with$$. The theory on the draft/ rookie cap doesn't hold water imo. Donahoe tried to move up in the draft for Big Ben, and could have moved back in first round for Brees which would have saved $$ from their original draft spot. Heck, Bledsoe had a large contract when the Bills traded for him. The Bills simply made bad choices in attempting to acquire a QB, and had some bad luck ( move up for Big Ben getting cancelled at last minute). Anyway, RW was known more for being cheap with Head Coaches than with players. He's long gone. This isn't about $$ , it's about allocation of draft resources and analytics. The Eagles defeating TB and NE is a huge deal, and is probably changing some GMs perspective. Do you need a high draft pick at QB to win the Championship? Only top tens to do so in recent memory are the Mannings. Unless you possess a high pick, a lot of draft capital must be surrendered to draft one of these QBs. That WILL affect your ability to build a PHI, MIN, LAR type roster. 1
dpberr Posted March 5, 2018 Posted March 5, 2018 He's a system QB. I think he'd be the first to tell you.
whatdrought Posted March 5, 2018 Posted March 5, 2018 Just now, Reed83HOF said: I suppose you could compare the college career stats. I would assume that Falk/White will all be fairly similar to Foles, at that point I would take a shot with the rook. Might want one of our draft gurus to weigh in on this... But that's my point. I agree that a high upside rookie could be worth more than foles, but at the end of the day we're dealing with unknowns. I'd rather take the guy who showed something positive and has a positive track record over the guys who have no track record.
Zac Posted March 5, 2018 Posted March 5, 2018 2 scenarios. Scenario #1 Trade our 2nd round pick for Nick Foles Draft Lamar Jackson with pick #21 First 2 rounds look like this: #21 Lamar Jackson #22 #56 Scenario #2 Trade #21, #22 and #53 for #2 Overall First 2 rounds look like this #2 Josh Rosen #56 Which scenario makes us a better football team. I would say #1.
billsbackto81 Posted March 5, 2018 Posted March 5, 2018 1 minute ago, dpberr said: He's a system QB. I think he'd be the first to tell you. Every QB is a "system" QB. The "system" is built around the QBs strengths and talent. The difference between the average and the elite is the ability to adapt and improvise and still succeed when defenses figure out or slow down the scheme they run. 1
whatdrought Posted March 5, 2018 Posted March 5, 2018 Another note on Nick Foles that I think get's over looked: Prior to this year, his actual playing time was spent under the direction of two coaches who are widely regarded as maniacs that are completely incapable of coaching NFL teams. His first real playing time under a competent coach was his Superbowl MVP run. 1
Reed83HOF Posted March 5, 2018 Author Posted March 5, 2018 16 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said: Ok, well the term " cheap" is generally associated with$$. The theory on the draft/ rookie cap doesn't hold water imo. Donahoe tried to move up in the draft for Big Ben, and could have moved back in first round for Brees which would have saved $$ from their original draft spot. Heck, Bledsoe had a large contract when the Bills traded for him. The Bills simply made bad choices in attempting to acquire a QB, and had some bad luck ( move up for Big Ben getting cancelled at last minute). Anyway, RW was known more for being cheap with Head Coaches than with players. He's long gone. This isn't about $$ , it's about allocation of draft resources and analytics. The Eagles defeating TB and NE is a huge deal, and is probably changing some GMs perspective. Do you need a high draft pick at QB to win the Championship? Only top tens to do so in recent memory are the Mannings. Unless you possess a high pick, a lot of draft capital must be surrendered to draft one of these QBs. That WILL affect your ability to build a PHI, MIN, LAR type roster. Actually if you look back, we more or less stopped going after QBs after Donahoe was gone. I will give TD that, he did make moves to attempt to address it. Once Marv replaced him we went the cheap route (not talented). EJ was the only shot after 2004 before EJ... Yeah it may be changing, but the rules still favor the QB. PHI & LAR did not have great rosters until they got a QB. PHI got in a good position for the post-season because of Wentz. the Rams only got better because of Goff. QBs elevate talent around them. A full season of Foles would not have had the same rate of success, as Wentz... 2001: Tom Brady, Patriots. 2002: Rich Gannon, Raiders. 2003: Tom Brady, Patriots. 2004: Tom Brady, Patriots. 2005: Ben Roethlisberger, Steelers. 2006: Peyton Manning, Colts. 2007: Tom Brady, Patriots. 2008: Ben Roethlisberger, Steelers. 2009: Peyton Manning, Colts. 2010: Ben Roethlisberger, Steelers. 2011: Tom Brady, Patriots. 2012: Joe Flacco, Ravens. 2013: Peyton Manning, Broncos. 2014: Tom Brady, Patriots. 2015: Peyton Manning, Broncos. 2016: Brady 2017: Brady
Boatdrinks Posted March 5, 2018 Posted March 5, 2018 11 minutes ago, Zac said: 2 scenarios. Scenario #1 Trade our 2nd round pick for Nick Foles Draft Lamar Jackson with pick #21 First 2 rounds look like this: #21 Lamar Jackson #22 #56 Scenario #2 Trade #21, #22 and #53 for #2 Overall First 2 rounds look like this #2 Josh Rosen #56 Which scenario makes us a better football team. I would say #1. I agree. I'm not even certain that package get the Bills to pick# 2. It will cost more imo
Seanbillsfan2206 Posted March 5, 2018 Posted March 5, 2018 15 minutes ago, Zac said: 2 scenarios. Scenario #1 Trade our 2nd round pick for Nick Foles Draft Lamar Jackson with pick #21 First 2 rounds look like this: #21 Lamar Jackson #22 #56 Scenario #2 Trade #21, #22 and #53 for #2 Overall First 2 rounds look like this #2 Josh Rosen #56 Which scenario makes us a better football team. I would say #1. If we got foles there would be no need to draft Jackson at 21
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