thebandit27 Posted March 5, 2018 Posted March 5, 2018 33 minutes ago, DCOrange said: He absolutely is. He literally tested out in the 7th percentile of NFL WRs. For perspective, over the past 3 drafts, these are the WRs that you may have heard of that tested as poorly (even ignoring the age part of the issue): Pharaoh Cooper Rashard Higgins That's the whole list. They have a combined 58 catches in 57 games. Edit: Is it possible that Ridley overcomes his lack of athleticism and becomes a productive WR anyways? Sure. But I'm just not interested in taking a guy with his athleticism and age in the 1st round. No, he rated in the 7th percentile in a weighted score that is used to express one rating system's assessment of a player's NFL potential. It's also worth asking if SPARQ actually has any correlation to becoming a quality NFL receiver? From my cursory looks over the years, it doesn't. Also, go back to 2014, and you'll find that Ridley's SPARQ rating is nearly identical to Allen Hurns'. Also, just for fun: 2nd-worst SPARQ score in the 2014 class? Jarvis Landry. So what's the point? The point isn't that I think Ridley is going to be a WR1 in the NFL. The point is that he isn't an extremely poor athlete because one rating system places more emphasis on the vertical jump and broad jump and less on the 40 and 3-cone. The only reason that SPARQ ratings and the like are even part of the discussion is because the raw numbers for workout drills have almost no correlation to on-field production. 1
dlonce Posted March 5, 2018 Posted March 5, 2018 Lamar Jackson is a guy I wouldn’t touch with a 10 foot pole. Im positive the Bills will pass on him.
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted March 5, 2018 Posted March 5, 2018 As for Calvin Ridley: When did we start giving formulas from the underwear Olympics 100% weight in evaluating a player! When did separation skills, ball skills, run after catch, competitveness, toughness, productivity etc. start counting for zero? Oh and Alabama never produces quality receivers. Wow this is bad today!
John from Riverside Posted March 5, 2018 Posted March 5, 2018 1 minute ago, dlonce said: Lamar Jackson is a guy I wouldn’t touch with a 10 foot pole. Im positive the Bills will pass on him. Why? Or are people just gonna say this crap for no reason
CommonCents Posted March 5, 2018 Posted March 5, 2018 Just now, John from Riverside said: OMFG Not only do you post completely uneducated WRONG information on players and base your evaluations (if you want to call them that) on wrong information You also have a reading comp problem.....I have firmly said that Lamar is my fall back player if the trade up for Rosen or Mayfield cannot be completed (which it may wll not be...the gape betwen 21 and 22 to top 5 is HUGE. I think it will be you that will be crying that you did not get your player.....not me Uneducated? Wrong? You seem really emotional right now John. Is everything ok? Multiple big names in the media have come out and said the same things about Allen and Jackson. Is this the land of make believe John? Am I to believe you over guys who actually have contacts around the league? Oh I get it Jackson and Allen are so good that teams are already running misinformation so they drop in the draft. I wonder why no one is bashing Rosen, Mayfield and Darnold so they drop. The big advantage GMs have over average fans watching film and grading players is their ability to sit face to face with the players. I have always said that. I believe that is where Whaley and his scouts failed the most. Early results are out and Allen is such a rock that it overshadowed his performance on the field. Jackson is a project at the board http://thespun.com/acc/louisville/lamar-jackson-project-nfl-gm/amp maybe you missed it? I know you can throw it away because it's misinformation right? How many teams met with Lamar Jackson? If he doesn't understand the plays being drawn on a board each and every team already knows. So explain the reasoning behind railroading a young man? Silly fella. 1
John from Riverside Posted March 5, 2018 Posted March 5, 2018 1 minute ago, Commonsense said: Uneducated? Wrong? You seem really emotional right now John. Is everything ok? Multiple big names in the media have come out and said the same things about Allen and Jackson. Is this the land of make believe John? Am I to believe you over guys who actually have contacts around the league? Oh I get it Jackson and Allen are so good that teams are already running misinformation so they drop in the draft. I wonder why no one is bashing Rosen, Mayfield and Darnold so they drop. The big advantage GMs have over average fans watching film and grading players is their ability to sit face to face with the players. I have always said that. I believe that is where Whaley and his scouts failed the most. Early results are out and Allen is such a rock that it overshadowed his performance on the field. Jackson is a project at the board http://thespun.com/acc/louisville/lamar-jackson-project-nfl-gm/amp maybe you missed it? I know you can throw it away because it's misinformation right? How many teams met with Lamar Jackson? If he doesn't understand the plays being drawn on a board each and every team already knows. So explain the reasoning behind railroading a young man? Silly fella. Its intersting that your "proof" is all from one tweeter on a website nobody has heard of..... Shall I pull down the multiple on line articles that refute it?
CommonCents Posted March 5, 2018 Posted March 5, 2018 Just now, John from Riverside said: Its intersting that your "proof" is all from one tweeter on a website nobody has heard of..... Shall I pull down the multiple on line articles that refute it? And Albert Breer of SI said the same thing about the same two players. No John you should go find some midol and take a nap. 1
John from Riverside Posted March 5, 2018 Posted March 5, 2018 (edited) 1 minute ago, Commonsense said: And Albert Breer of SI said the same thing about the same two players. No John you should go find some midol and take a nap. Its so funny.....you dont have a leg to stand on but just keep at it. But it is good to see that you do have at least enough reading comp to find articles at agree with your "opinion" even if you cant read before making accusations at other posters what they are thinking. Edited March 5, 2018 by John from Riverside
DCOrange Posted March 5, 2018 Posted March 5, 2018 (edited) 33 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: No, he rated in the 7th percentile in a weighted score that is used to express one rating system's assessment of a player's NFL potential. It's also worth asking if SPARQ actually has any correlation to becoming a quality NFL receiver? From my cursory looks over the years, it doesn't. Also, go back to 2014, and you'll find that Ridley's SPARQ rating is nearly identical to Allen Hurns'. Also, just for fun: 2nd-worst SPARQ score in the 2014 class? Jarvis Landry. So what's the point? The point isn't that I think Ridley is going to be a WR1 in the NFL. The point is that he isn't an extremely poor athlete because one rating system places more emphasis on the vertical jump and broad jump and less on the 40 and 3-cone. The only reason that SPARQ ratings and the like are even part of the discussion is because the raw numbers for workout drills have almost no correlation to on-field production. I would again refer back to this: This graph isn't using a formula to throw out one number that calculates a player's athleticism like SPARQ does. It simply shows how he performed relative to the rest of the position. The two possibilities here are that he had an awful day or that he's unathletic. Even ignoring the measurements (height, weight, wingspan, arm length, hand size) and simply looking at the physical testing, you can clearly see that he's a well-below average athlete compared to NFL WRs. That doesn't mean that it's impossible for him to be productive, but saying that he is old and unathletic relative to NFL WRs is simply a true statement. Edited March 5, 2018 by DCOrange 1
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted March 5, 2018 Posted March 5, 2018 1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said: I agree, I’m not advocating the boom or bust guys. Just saying that it is weird that the same people that hate the high floor low ceiling guy that have hate the low floor high ceiling guys in the draft. Iis not weird- I think it’s just a delusional thinking Like somehow “franchise qb” is a super value meal item that 15-20 franchises have just been too stupid to order. Like stock analysts everyone looks at the few that succeed and may that fail then try to figure what crystal ball indications were missed or correctly applied, when reality is predicting the future performance of football player is still far from a science- and the results show it. 2
thebandit27 Posted March 5, 2018 Posted March 5, 2018 6 minutes ago, DCOrange said: I would again refer back to this: This graph isn't using a formula to throw out one number that calculates a player's athleticism like SPARQ does. It simply shows how he performed relative to the rest of the position. The two possibilities here are that he had an awful day or that he's unathletic. Even ignoring the measurements (height, weight, wingspan, arm length, hand size) and simply looking at the physical testing, you can clearly see that he's a well-below average athlete compared to NFL WRs. That doesn't mean that it's impossible for him to be productive, but saying that he is old and unathletic relative to NFL WRs is simply a true statement. I know how to read the mockdraftable charts; they aren't exactly new data. I think what you meant to say earlier is that his explosion numbers don't compare favorably to most NFL receivers. His 3-cone, 40, and bench, however do. Calling him an extremely poor athlete was an inaccurate characterization; saying he's less explosive is, IMO, more realistic. 1
CommonCents Posted March 5, 2018 Posted March 5, 2018 57 minutes ago, horned dogs said: Hot takes abound on this thread today: So far I've been told..... Calvin Ridley is old and un-athletic Josh Allen=Ryan Leaf Josh Rosen is a social justice type Lamar Jackson has trouble understanding plays Kelvin Benjamin is not good at football And Commensense can't even answer why Vander Esch was only a one year starter, but still a first round beast Well that was fun.... You couldn't even ask the question right and it's pretty apparent why it took Vander Esch time to get to where he is now. In his high school they played 8 on 8 football, most players played both ways. Not exactly grounds for fine tuning an NFL prospect. He walked on to Boise St. He was redshirted his Freshman year fresh out of his 8 on 8 matchups. His sophomore year he was limited to six games due to injuries. Declared his Junior year, easily a top 40 guy. Rumors before the combine had him as a fit at 14 or 19. It will be interesting to see where he lands.
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted March 5, 2018 Posted March 5, 2018 21 minutes ago, Commonsense said: You couldn't even ask the question right and it's pretty apparent why it took Vander Esch time to get to where he is now. In his high school they played 8 on 8 football, most players played both ways. Not exactly grounds for fine tuning an NFL prospect. He walked on to Boise St. He was redshirted his Freshman year fresh out of his 8 on 8 matchups. His sophomore year he was limited to six games due to injuries. Declared his Junior year, easily a top 40 guy. Rumors before the combine had him as a fit at 14 or 19. It will be interesting to see where he lands. Oh so the fact he is only a one year starter and not senior confused you. You could have handled a simple question much better junior. So it took him 3 years to overcome 8-8 football...got it. Let's agree to not quote each other anymore because I now know what you are about.
CommonCents Posted March 5, 2018 Posted March 5, 2018 1 minute ago, horned dogs said: Oh so the fact he is only a one year starter and not senior confused you. You could have handled a simple question much better junior. So it took him 3 years to overcome 8-8 football...got it. Let's agree to not quote each other anymore because I now know what you are about. Don't call someone out multiple times when you can't take a minute of your own time to do a little research. Try again red shirt, hurt, played. That's year 1, 2 and 3. I won't quote you anymore as long as you don't call out others. Good luck champ.
Sig1Hunter Posted March 5, 2018 Posted March 5, 2018 3 hours ago, Gugny said: Lamar Jackson. Not with your pole, and Boyst pushing. 1
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted March 5, 2018 Posted March 5, 2018 1 minute ago, Commonsense said: Don't call someone out multiple times when you can't take a minute of your own time to do a little research. Try again red shirt, hurt, played. That's year 1, 2 and 3. I won't quote you anymore as long as you don't call out others. Good luck champ. If you think being asked a simple question is being called out you are exactly who I think you are. Stay away far away.
buffaloboyinATL Posted March 5, 2018 Posted March 5, 2018 4 hours ago, billspro said: Why would you not want Calvin Ridley? I don't want Ridley either, primarily because there are other WR's that can be had in the second round that I believe will be better pro's. Not that he is a bad player, just not value where he will go. Chark is one of the ones that comes to mind, but there are others.
Cripple Creek Posted March 5, 2018 Author Posted March 5, 2018 3 hours ago, yungmack said: If he's your 10 foot pole pick, then you must be okay with Jackson, Allen, and the rest of the draftees. Don't want Jackson either but listed Darnold because he's projected higher.. Haven't seen enough of Allen to say one way or the other. 2 hours ago, Commonsense said: You're not looking for a conversation, you are foaming at the mouth and in love with a player you have probably only watched on highlights reels. Carry on. SOSDD
frostbitmic Posted March 5, 2018 Posted March 5, 2018 Sam Darnold ... Turnover machine in high school, turnover machine in college, yeah he has a strong arm but he can't hold onto the ball.
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