Difference between Jackson and Taylor

[JM57]

7 hours ago, MPT said:

 

I agree with all of this. Jackson is a better player than Tyrod, but he's still going to need an offensive system catered to his strengths and weaknesses more than a prototypical pocket passer would. The Bills were completely unwilling to do that with Tyrod last year, but I'm hoping the change in OC will bring more creativity and flexibility to the offense that would allow a player like Jackson to reach his potential as a playmaker. 

Daboll has already shown he can, and will, do this. You can look at the National Championship game alone and see it. Same scheme, of course, but with different wrinkles that played to the strengths of Jalen Hurts (good runner, weaker passer) and Tua Tagovailoa. That's a good sign.

 

Also a reminder that Daboll and Bobby Petrino both run the Erhardt-Perkins offense, so the concepts and terminology would already be very comfortable for Jackson.

 

If Teddy Bridgewater is a free agent looking for a short term, prove it deal, I'm signing him and drafting Jackson.

[njbuff]

6 minutes ago, JM57 said:

Daboll has already shown he can, and will, do this. You can look at the National Championship game alone and see it. Same scheme, of course, but with different wrinkles that played to the strengths of Jalen Hurts (good runner, weaker passer) and Tua Tagovailoa. That's a good sign.

 

Also a reminder that Daboll and Bobby Petrino both run the Erhardt-Perkins offense, so the concepts and terminology would already be very comfortable for Jackson.

 

If Teddy Bridgewater is a free agent looking for a short term, prove it deal, I'm signing him and drafting Jackson.

 

I could go along with this.

 

Plus Jackson is light years more talented than Taylor.

[PrimeTime101]

19 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I'm really getting annoyed by the "spin doctors" here.  I sat there and watched QB combine workouts.  I saw a deep R throw by Allen where the WR had to adjust further to the R and the ball was too long for him went off his hands.  They were all over "strong effortless throw".  Similar throw by Jackson where the WR had to adjust but the ball was caught "poor throw, excellent catch".  I'm nowhere near a pundit when things are moving full speed, but when I have tape and can back up and replay,  even I can "get it" and I swear, if you turned off the sound and cut out the QB, you could not distinguish one as great and one as "poor".  I saw some pretty pinpoint throws by Jackson, and some bad ones - but I saw a too-high throw from Mayfield where they're all to the WR "you're 6'2" you got to catch that" and with Jackson all about the bad throw (it was similarly overthrown). 

 

Again, this is not to puff up Jackson and say he's great, but I think if you shuffled some of the throws (and didn't say who the QB was) the pundits would be all confused about what to say on each throw just like the famous "oenophile blind taste test"  .  It's very annoying to folks like myself who are trying to educate ourselves and improve our football knowledge.

 

I liked what I saw of Jackson's footwork and timing in his drops because in the bits of game film where he's throwing from under center, it did NOT look good - his timing was off and he just stood there at the top of his drop - awkward.  He looked much better and smoother (from the footwork perspective) yesterday.

I really like your take on this and agree with your assessment. I more wish Lamar was a second round prospect then a first but answer me this.. If all we have is Taylor, We don't move up and he is best QB Available, do we take him?

19 hours ago, Boatdrinks said:

Jackson took very few snaps from under center ( the least of the " big five"  I believe ) and if you watch his footwork he does throw from a very narrow " base". That puts too much of the throw on the upper body , but I think this is correctable. Jackson certainly needs to improve his footwork, but so does Mayfield. LJ represents many unknowns, but his talent makes him much more intriguing to me than the " known entity " that Tyrod is. Time to move on, and I think Jackson is a better prospect than Taylor ever was. 

It is correctable, but that doesn't mean it gets corrected. I think Jackson can be slightly more consistent then Taylor.. Is that worth a draft spot to you or do you want better?

18 hours ago, McBean said:

 

It sounds like I’m in the minority, but I would be livid with the selection of Lamar Jackson or Josh Allen.

 

Allen flat out sucks. If he didn’t throw a ball 90 yards he would go undrafted. EJ Manuel was better than him in college and looked how that worked out.

 

Jackson scares me because he knows he can run. IMO, that’s going to be a crutch he will lean on in the NFL and will use his legs more than his arm. 

 

I want a traditional pocket passer that sits in the pocket and barely runs.

 

1. Rosen

2. Mayfield 

3. Rudolph

4. Darnold

 

Get me one of the 4. Just say NO to Jackson or Allen.

Look.. I have to believe in the system. And if in this system they pick one of those 2 then I will fall behind them like it or not cause if I don't believe then what is the point of watching it?

18 hours ago, jmc12290 said:

It's easier to grow your game with another year in college than it is in the NFL.

Yep I agree with growing your "game" but that doesn't mean it translates into NFL caliber.

21 minutes ago, njbuff said:

 

I could go along with this.

 

Plus Jackson is light years more talented than Taylor.

Light years? I wouldn't say that he has not even taken a snap in the NFL yet.. you cant say that.

[PrimeTime101]

https://youtu.be/YIlqMpKFhds

 

 

So head over to youtube an watch this video if you have not you should before making final judgement on Lamar.

 

Notes from video.

 

1. Took him a bit of time to get warmed up but that's normal.

2. Big stride is a good sign.

3. Note with the throw that came short. That is an int all day long in NFL and they note "he does that a few times a game in college"

4. 50-60 yard throw looked effortless.

5. I saw good sideline passes but a little bit high... But not for Benjamin. That is right where you want it for him.

6. Hook throw a little low but low is better then high on that type of pass.

7. 5:00 NICE PASS! WR ran an in and out and he lead him on that pass and WR has plenty of room to run down field. I have not seen Tyrod be able to make those throws with any consistency.

8. Then throws a ball off stride and WR had to wait for it.

 

Accuracy Accuracy and more Accuracy issues.. and he was not under pressure.  IDK I think he is a long term prospect and not a short term franchise QB.

 

Watch Rosen and Darnald. They miss a ball and almost laugh at it where Jackson gets kind of a flustered look.

 

I say no to Jackson in first round.

 

 

 

Then again.. Jackson Made Rudolph look like crap on short throws.

Darnold chose not to throw a ball

And I now have just as many mixed feelings on Rosen..

who am i to judge lol

Edited March 5, 2018 by PrimeTime101

[dlonce]

This has nothing to do with skin color(I’m a man of color). It has everything to do with having the same thing in common.

Truly gifted running QBs do not have the innate ability to read defenses properly. They are one read and take off. It’s difficult to teach them otherwise. This is Jackson as well.

I hope the Bills do not draft this kid. We need a pocket type passer or at least one that exhausts all reads before taking off(Mayfield).

[PrimeTime101]

8 minutes ago, dlonce said:

This has nothing to do with skin color(I’m a man of color). It has everything to do with having the same thing in common.

Truly gifted running QBs do not have the innate ability to read defenses properly. They are one read and take off. It’s difficult to teach them otherwise. This is Jackson as well.

I hope the Bills do not draft this kid. We need a pocket type passer or at least one that exhausts all reads before taking off(Mayfield).

Keep in mind that I totally agree with the first part of you comment.. 

 

BUT.

 

Why are you even bringing up skin color? Why are you choosing this topic to bring race into the conversation? 

RACIAL comments have no room on these forums.. they really don't. Why even mention race? what point are you trying to prove? you think the majority care if you are white, black, purple, pink, gold, red?

 

You say this has nothing to do with race yet YOU SAID IT!

 

Pretty pathetic if you ask me and I highly suggest you edit your post..

 

and by the way.. EVERYONE on earth are men/woman of color......

 

Enough said.

Edited March 5, 2018 by PrimeTime101

[PrimeTime101]

Looks like Case is on his way out of MIN. .. IDK if I want to draft or FA now. lol

[starrymessenger]

I think Jackson would be best served by going to a team that had the coaching ability and the luxury of developing him as a pocket passer rather than to  a team looking for short term gain and using him as a running QB in an offence based on college concepts featuring lots of RPO. Given that he has been schooled in a pro-style offence it would be a step backwards IMO. Everybody knows he can help himself with his legs. The real question is whether he can continue to show progress executing from the pocket at the next level. If he can do that so that he is not scheme dependant he will be a much better QB, the kind Beane has said he likes. Personally I think there's a decent chance that he can do that and that's why I think he is a good prospect, not because of his running ability. His skills as a runner are very nice to have but he will never be able to run in the pros the way he did in college obviously, so in weighing him as a prospect you really have to consider whether he can develop as a passer. That's also why I don't think he needs to be groomed behind a player like Tyrod. To the contrary I think he would be better off sitting behind a guy like Bridgewater.

[PrimeTime101]

2 hours ago, starrymessenger said:

I think Jackson would be best served by going to a team that had the coaching ability and the luxury of developing him as a pocket passer rather than to  a team looking for short term gain and using him as a running QB in an offence based on college concepts featuring lots of RPO. Given that he has been schooled in a pro-style offence it would be a step backwards IMO. Everybody knows he can help himself with his legs. The real question is whether he can continue to show progress executing from the pocket at the next level. If he can do that so that he is not scheme dependant he will be a much better QB, the kind Beane has said he likes. Personally I think there's a decent chance that he can do that and that's why I think he is a good prospect, not because of his running ability. His skills as a runner are very nice to have but he will never be able to run in the pros the way he did in college obviously, so in weighing him as a prospect you really have to consider whether he can develop as a passer. That's also why I don't think he needs to be groomed behind a player like Tyrod. To the contrary I think he would be better off sitting behind a guy like Bridgewater.

Yep I totally agree.

[John from Riverside]

4 hours ago, PrimeTime101 said:

https://youtu.be/YIlqMpKFhds

 

 

So head over to youtube an watch this video if you have not you should before making final judgement on Lamar.

 

Notes from video.

 

1. Took him a bit of time to get warmed up but that's normal.

2. Big stride is a good sign.

3. Note with the throw that came short. That is an int all day long in NFL and they note "he does that a few times a game in college"

4. 50-60 yard throw looked effortless.

5. I saw good sideline passes but a little bit high... But not for Benjamin. That is right where you want it for him.

6. Hook throw a little low but low is better then high on that type of pass.

7. 5:00 NICE PASS! WR ran an in and out and he lead him on that pass and WR has plenty of room to run down field. I have not seen Tyrod be able to make those throws with any consistency.

8. Then throws a ball off stride and WR had to wait for it.

 

Accuracy Accuracy and more Accuracy issues.. and he was not under pressure.  IDK I think he is a long term prospect and not a short term franchise QB.

 

Watch Rosen and Darnald. They miss a ball and almost laugh at it where Jackson gets kind of a flustered look.

 

I say no to Jackson in first round.

 

 

 

Then again.. Jackson Made Rudolph look like crap on short throws.

Darnold chose not to throw a ball

And I now have just as many mixed feelings on Rosen..

who am i to judge lol

Appreciate you giving a honest evaluation...I was just about to say I saw poorly thrown balls from all of these qbs.

 

I happen to like Jackson....and I dont think he is close to his ceiling.  Having said that.

 

I want Rosen or Mayfield if the cost is not Ditka like

 

If it is....I would like to draft Jackson at 21 and sit him a year.

[Scorp83]

If people can't see the difference in Taylor & Jackson then their blinded by race. Just because he's black & can scramble doesn't mean they're the same player. 

 

For starters...in his 2nd year Tyrod threw 2...count them....2 TD's...

Jackson won the heisman! Let that sink in...

 

Taylor went in the 6th rd, Jackson is projected Top 25...

 

They are on 2 different playing fields... it's like me saying...dont draft Rosen because he's Trent Edwards 2.0 ??

 

 

[PrimeTime101]

16 minutes ago, Scorp83 said:

If people can't see the difference in Taylor & Jackson then their blinded by race. Just because he's black & can scramble doesn't mean they're the same player. 

 

For starters...in his 2nd year Tyrod threw 2...count them....2 TD's...

Jackson won the heisman! Let that sink in...

 

Taylor went in the 6th rd, Jackson is projected Top 25...

 

They are on 2 different playing fields... it's like me saying...dont draft Rosen because he's Trent Edwards 2.0 ??

 

 

AGAIN! why bring race into the conversation? I told the last idiot that brought up race.. most good human beings don't give a crap if your black white yellow pick blue purple.. STOP BRINGING RACE INTO THE CONVERSATION! It doesn't belong in these forums. No one here gives a chit about race. get over yourself/it.

 

this is your 11th post? disgraceful!

We are here to judge our opinion and talk about talent.. NOT TALK ABOUT RACE...

 

another idiotic post goes down in the books.

 

1. Because people are worried about another Run first QB that we don't want.

2. Because he is very raw talent.

3. Just because Tyrod was 6th round pick... means NOTHING. its about what you do on the field.

3. you have no clue how he will produce in the NFL just like any other GI Joe here..  We are going with gut feelings and we have our right to it..

 

Knock it off with the race card..

Edited March 5, 2018 by PrimeTime101
Reasons people dont like Jackson.

[Scorp83]

26 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

AGAIN! why bring race into the conversation? I told the last idiot that brought up race.. most good human beings don't give a crap if your black white yellow pick blue purple.. STOP BRINGING RACE INTO THE CONVERSATION! It doesn't belong in these forums. No one here gives a chit about race. get over yourself/it.

 

this is your 11th post? disgraceful!

We are here to judge our opinion and talk about talent.. NOT TALK ABOUT RACE...

 

another idiotic post goes down in the books.

 

1. Because people are worried about another Run first QB that we don't want.

2. Because he is very raw talent.

3. Just because Tyrod was 6th round pick... means NOTHING. its about what you do on the field.

3. you have no clue how he will produce in the NFL just like any other GI Joe here..  We are going with gut feelings and we have our right to it..

 

Knock it off with the race card..

Those 4 points are not valid... fine let's take the race out of it... Going off his collegiate experience, he's probably the best prospect in the draft... his skill set says he will do great in the NFL. I knew for a fact that DeShaun Watson was going to do great... our GM didn't think so...so he traded out of the pick...& I'm just a normal guy working a regular job. Did i get lucky? NO ... i knew Wentz was going to be good... before the message board got shutdown... I was on there banging the table for Wentz... but everyone was high on Rex & Tyrod. 

 

Jackson is a great prospect, he's better then Watson...& People tried to compare him to Taylor...WHY?!?!  It's hard to not bring race in it because Watson & Jackson are clearly not Taylor... & proved in college that their not Taylor. The same 4 points you used... can be said about the other 5 top QB's... but yet you still get people in the Bills community that calls him "Tyrod Jackson" ???

 

It's getting old... they both different... & Jackson is a legit weapon... who's way ahead of alot of rookies... is he right for the Bills? IMO No... we can't wait on him to fully develop. I'd rather have Rosen... but wouldn't be mad if we drafted Jackson.

 

Oh & just because I'm new on the board doesn't mean I'm clueless to this. I was on the Bills Message board since 2004! I'm not some young guy that woke up & decided to get on here.... I'm a vet & been a Bills fan for over 33yrs! So just because you see that someone is new...dont assume they're clueless

Edited March 5, 2018 by Scorp83

[John from Riverside]

44 minutes ago, Scorp83 said:

If people can't see the difference in Taylor & Jackson then their blinded by race. Just because he's black & can scramble doesn't mean they're the same player. 

 

For starters...in his 2nd year Tyrod threw 2...count them....2 TD's...

Jackson won the heisman! Let that sink in...

 

Taylor went in the 6th rd, Jackson is projected Top 25...

 

They are on 2 different playing fields... it's like me saying...dont draft Rosen because he's Trent Edwards 2.0 ??

 

 

I really dont want to pull the race card out on this

 

I am going to say it is because of style of play and the stereotype that comes with that.

 

Statistics have already been presented that Lamar Jackson (and in less years) blows away TT in TD passes (which is one of the few QB stats I actually care about

 

but for those that do love passing yards...he blows him away there too

 

He is a extremely productive college player with all the NFL tools who has gotten better every year

 

Am I SUPPOSED to hate him because he is a threat to run?   To people understand that this forces defenses to play him differently....that they will formulate their defense to "make him a quarterback" and the kid actually can throw from the pocket?

 

No...im not going to downgrade him because he does something extremely well besides pass the ball......as long as he can turn his game and make the throws when defenses try to corral him in.

 

 

 

 

[Scorp83]

16 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

I really dont want to pull the race card out on this

 

I am going to say it is because of style of play and the stereotype that comes with that.

 

Statistics have already been presented that Lamar Jackson (and in less years) blows away TT in TD passes (which is one of the few QB stats I actually care about

 

but for those that do love passing yards...he blows him away there too

 

He is a extremely productive college player with all the NFL tools who has gotten better every year

 

Am I SUPPOSED to hate him because he is a threat to run?   To people understand that this forces defenses to play him differently....that they will formulate their defense to "make him a quarterback" and the kid actually can throw from the pocket?

 

No...im not going to downgrade him because he does something extremely well besides pass the ball......as long as he can turn his game and make the throws when defenses try to corral him in.

 

 

 

 

Totally agree! Well said sir... well said!

 

"Am I SUPPOSED to hate him because he is a threat to run?   To people understand that this forces defenses to play him differently....that they will formulate their defense to "make him a quarterback" and the kid actually can throw from the pocket?"

 

Excellent post! 

Edited March 5, 2018 by Scorp83

[H2o]

On 3/3/2018 at 11:32 PM, PrimeTime101 said:

 

So some are worried or scared that Lamar Jackson will turn out to be another Tyrod Taylor.. So i Thought I would post both stats and let you decide.

 

Tyrod Taylor

 

PASSING Stats

YEAR		CMP	ATT	PCT	YDS	AVG	TD	LNG	INT	RAT
2007		72	134	53.7	927	6.9	5	59	3	119.7
2008		99	173	57.2	1036	6.0	2	40	7	103.2
2009		136	243	56.0	2311	9.5	13	81	5	149.4
2010		188	315	59.7	2743	8.7	24	69	5	154.8

RUSHING Stats
YEAR		ATT	YDS	AVG	LNG	TD
2007		102	420	4.1	52	6
2008		147	738	5.0	73	7
2009		106	370	3.5	46	5
2010		146	659	4.5	72	5

 

Lamar Jackson 

PASSING Stats
YEAR		CMP	ATT	PCT	YDS	AVG	TD	LNG	INT	RAT
2017		254	430	59.1	3660	8.5	27	78	10	146.6
2016		230	409	56.2	3543	8.7	30	74	9	148.8
2015		135	247	54.7	1840	7.4	12	56	8	126.8

RUSHING Stats
YEAR		ATT	YDS	AVG	LNG	TD
2017		232	1601	6.9	75	18
2016		260	1571	6.0	72	21
2015		163	960	5.9	73	11

 

Notes

1. Jackson is coming out 1 year early but played as starting QB in college 1 year more so thus Jackson comes out more experienced.

2. Jackson best year Passing + Rushing yard total is 5,602 Yards total. Tyrods Total yards on his best year? 3,402 yards. Yes different conference different system but damn.

3. Taylor best year he threw the ball 315 times and 5 INT. Jackson best year threw the ball 430 times with 10 INT.

4. Taylor best year in TD's he had a total of 29 TD's. Jackson total TD's on his best year was 51.

5. Taylor was drafted in 6th round. Jackson is picked to be drafted in round 1 or 2.

 

So with this info in mind I ask you.. Is Lamar Jackson another Vic, Taylor? Or do you think he will be much better?

Thoughts

 

 

Frank Beamer offensive philosophy vs. Bobby Petrino offensive philosophy. Thread\

[Mat68]

On 3/3/2018 at 11:32 PM, PrimeTime101 said:

 

So some are worried or scared that Lamar Jackson will turn out to be another Tyrod Taylor.. So i Thought I would post both stats and let you decide.

 

Tyrod Taylor

 

PASSING Stats

YEAR		CMP	ATT	PCT	YDS	AVG	TD	LNG	INT	RAT
2007		72	134	53.7	927	6.9	5	59	3	119.7
2008		99	173	57.2	1036	6.0	2	40	7	103.2
2009		136	243	56.0	2311	9.5	13	81	5	149.4
2010		188	315	59.7	2743	8.7	24	69	5	154.8

RUSHING Stats
YEAR		ATT	YDS	AVG	LNG	TD
2007		102	420	4.1	52	6
2008		147	738	5.0	73	7
2009		106	370	3.5	46	5
2010		146	659	4.5	72	5

 

Lamar Jackson 

PASSING Stats
YEAR		CMP	ATT	PCT	YDS	AVG	TD	LNG	INT	RAT
2017		254	430	59.1	3660	8.5	27	78	10	146.6
2016		230	409	56.2	3543	8.7	30	74	9	148.8
2015		135	247	54.7	1840	7.4	12	56	8	126.8

RUSHING Stats
YEAR		ATT	YDS	AVG	LNG	TD
2017		232	1601	6.9	75	18
2016		260	1571	6.0	72	21
2015		163	960	5.9	73	11

 

Notes

1. Jackson is coming out 1 year early but played as starting QB in college 1 year more so thus Jackson comes out more experienced.

2. Jackson best year Passing + Rushing yard total is 5,602 Yards total. Tyrods Total yards on his best year? 3,402 yards. Yes different conference different system but damn.

3. Taylor best year he threw the ball 315 times and 5 INT. Jackson best year threw the ball 430 times with 10 INT.

4. Taylor best year in TD's he had a total of 29 TD's. Jackson total TD's on his best year was 51.

5. Taylor was drafted in 6th round. Jackson is picked to be drafted in round 1 or 2.

 

So with this info in mind I ask you.. Is Lamar Jackson another Vic, Taylor? Or do you think he will be much better?

Thoughts

 

 

If Vick worked at his craft he would have been great.  Even Vick without the dog fighting would be a very good Qb.  Jackson has just as much potential and the ability to be great that Allen has.  I don't understand how people knocking Jackson and not Allen.  Teach him 3,5, and 7 step drops and proper foot work he could be one of the best players in the league IMO.  

[Solomon Grundy]

Mayock says Lamar Jackson is future of the NFL!!

[PrimeTime101]

1 hour ago, Scorp83 said:

Those 4 points are not valid... fine let's take the race out of it... Going off his collegiate experience, he's probably the best prospect in the draft... his skill set says he will do great in the NFL. I knew for a fact that DeShaun Watson was going to do great... our GM didn't think so...so he traded out of the pick...& I'm just a normal guy working a regular job. Did i get lucky? NO ... i knew Wentz was going to be good... before the message board got shutdown... I was on there banging the table for Wentz... but everyone was high on Rex & Tyrod. 

 

Jackson is a great prospect, he's better then Watson...& People tried to compare him to Taylor...WHY?!?!  It's hard to not bring race in it because Watson & Jackson are clearly not Taylor... & proved in college that their not Taylor. The same 4 points you used... can be said about the other 5 top QB's... but yet you still get people in the Bills community that calls him "Tyrod Jackson" ???

 

It's getting old... they both different... & Jackson is a legit weapon... who's way ahead of alot of rookies... is he right for the Bills? IMO No... we can't wait on him to fully develop. I'd rather have Rosen... but wouldn't be mad if we drafted Jackson.

 

Oh & just because I'm new on the board doesn't mean I'm clueless to this. I was on the Bills Message board since 2004! I'm not some young guy that woke up & decided to get on here.... I'm a vet & been a Bills fan for over 33yrs! So just because you see that someone is new...dont assume they're clueless

I stopped reading after the bolded.

1 hour ago, Scorp83 said:

Totally agree! Well said sir... well said!

 

"Am I SUPPOSED to hate him because he is a threat to run?   To people understand that this forces defenses to play him differently....that they will formulate their defense to "make him a quarterback" and the kid actually can throw from the pocket?"

 

Excellent post! 

By the way I never said I hate him cause of a run threat or love him because he has a run threat. I am in the middle on Jackson. I don't think you can sit him for 1 year and play him. I think you either have to sit him 2-3 years then play him or play him right away to work out all the other issues he has.

[John from Riverside]

32 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

I stopped reading after the bolded.

By the way I never said I hate him cause of a run threat or love him because he has a run threat. I am in the middle on Jackson. I don't think you can sit him for 1 year and play him. I think you either have to sit him 2-3 years then play him or play him right away to work out all the other issues he has.

I am curious as to where you came with this thought process.