When Was Doug Whaley Really Fired in 2017?

[Buffalo716]

3 minutes ago, JohnC said:

When the owner interviewed McDermott for the HCing job the wrestling coach was ready to lay out his plans not only how a roster should be built but also how an organization should be structured. The owner was impressed at how in detail his blueprint was to enliven the owner's moribund franchise. Whaley had his own template. The template that the wrestling coach offered was not only much different but it was much more thoughtful and comprehensive. McDermott's approach to assembling a roster was more coherent and thematic compared to a more patchwork approach that Whaley practiced. Included in the candidate's roster building approach was the importance of properly structuring the cap. With McDermott there is a priority in balancing out the cap. Whaley had a tendency to look at contracts for players on an individual level. While McDermott saw a greater importance at taking a more strategic view at how it affected the roster in general and how it affected future decisions and options. 

 

Once the owner hired McDermott there was no way that Whaley was going to be kept. There were two world visions that couldn't be reconciled. The decision to fire the former GM was inevitable once the owner made the decision to hire the wrestling coach. And once the hire was made Whaley knew what his fate was. 

 

Whaley survived multiple coaches and was as good as gone when Rex was fired...

 

but you don't get rid of a GM a few months before the draft. He already did so much work for it... and besides, whaleys real problem was cap management not finding talent

 

McDermott identified guys he liked for the draft and What he would like to accomplish and Whaley did his job

[Reed83HOF]

1 hour ago, Rico said:

Exactly. He was on borrowed time after the Marrone fights, but that was the last straw.

He was like Billy Bats after that...

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

If you go back and watch the introduction of McDermott at OBD, whales attempted to introduce him and McDermott steamrolled right by him.  I think he already had assurances Whaley had the noose around his neck 

[KD in CA]

I'll go with "Not soon enough".

[CuddyDark]

3 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

If you go back and watch the introduction of McDermott at OBD, whales attempted to introduce him and McDermott steamrolled right by him.  I think he already had assurances Whaley had the noose around his neck 

I thought Terry introduced McDermott?

[Kirby Jackson]

So many scorching takes!! When the Bills fired Rex the inevitable next step was to part with the GM too. The scouting season was long since over and FA and the draft were approaching. Instead of replacing your entire football operations department after a scouting season and prior to the start of the league year they took the sensible approach. Whaley and his scouts set the board and worked with McDermott on the types of players that he wanted. 

 

You couldn’t bring in someone new, especially if you were going to turn over the whole department at that juncture. They couldn’t have gotten up to speed. 

Edited March 1, 2018 by Kirby Jackson

[Domdab99]

Why would anyone care?

[CuddyDark]

2 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

So many scorching takes!! When the Bills fires Rex the inevitable next step was to part with the GM too. The scouting season was long since over and FA and the draft were approaching. Instead of replacing your entire football operations department after a scouting season and prior to the start of the league year they took the sensible approach. Whaley and his scouts set the board and worked with McDermott on the types of players that he wanted. 

 

You couldn’t bring in someone new, especially if you were going to turn over the whole department at that juncture. They couldn’t have gotten up to speed. 

This is the most sensible take in the thread.

 

Also McDermott probably got the same treatment Doug gave the owner of the team. You want to talk, schedule a meeting.

[papazoid]

21 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

So many scorching takes!! When the Bills fired Rex the inevitable next step was to part with the GM too. The scouting season was long since over and FA and the draft were approaching. Instead of replacing your entire football operations department after a scouting season and prior to the start of the league year they took the sensible approach. Whaley and his scouts set the board and worked with McDermott on the types of players that he wanted. 

 

You couldn’t bring in someone new, especially if you were going to turn over the whole department at that juncture. They couldn’t have gotten up to speed. 

 

absolutely....Pegula knew he was firing whaley at the same time he decided to fire rex.......pretty sure he told them both they were going up or down together

[K-9]

Whaley was told two things after that season ended:

 

You won’t be part of the search and hiring process for the new HC.

 

You will be let go after the draft but we will make it worth your while to stay and complete the offseason evaluation processes already underway for both the college and free agent prospects. This incentive applied to everyone involved on both the college and pro personnel side. Whaley and Co. chose to see those processes through. 

[Kirby Jackson]

2 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Whaley was told two things after that season ended:

 

You won’t be part of the search and hiring process for the new HC.

 

You will be let go after the draft but we will make it worth your while to stay and complete the offseason evaluation processes already underway for both the college and free agent prospects. This incentive applied to everyone involved on both the college and pro personnel side. Whaley and Co. chose to see those processes through. 

And he has had other GM looks since so it certainly didn’t hurt him.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

41 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

If you go back and watch the introduction of McDermott at OBD, whales attempted to introduce him and McDermott steamrolled right by him.  I think he already had assurances Whaley had the noose around his neck 

 

I just watched the introduction of McDermott at OBD.  Pegula made an introductory speech then turned the mic over to McDermott.

So I'm not sure what you're talking about?

[K-9]

1 minute ago, Kirby Jackson said:

And he has had other GM looks since so it certainly didn’t hurt him.

Being a professional never hurts and Whaley has always enjoyed that reputation. I’d give him a job but I’d insist on intense media training as part of the deal. He simply cannot get all flustered by the Jerry Sullivans of the world, get pissed, and lose focus like he was prone to do under the glare of media scrutiny. That said, Sully and several others were less than professional on several occasions, in other venues like bars and restaurants over the years so I can see why he had such a short fuse when it came to them.

[BuffaloRush]

46 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

So many scorching takes!! When the Bills fired Rex the inevitable next step was to part with the GM too. The scouting season was long since over and FA and the draft were approaching. Instead of replacing your entire football operations department after a scouting season and prior to the start of the league year they took the sensible approach. Whaley and his scouts set the board and worked with McDermott on the types of players that he wanted. 

 

You couldn’t bring in someone new, especially if you were going to turn over the whole department at that juncture. They couldn’t have gotten up to speed. 

 

So what was the time here?  When do you assume Doug was told of this plan?  Also do you think that the Pegulas essentially allowed Sean to “pick” his GM?

 

If this was the case, I’m shocked that it was never leaked to the media.  That’s why I find this whole story so interesting.  

 

It it would also shoot down the narrative that Terry envisioned the new coach working with Doug as GM

[Kirby Jackson]

10 minutes ago, BuffaloRush said:

 

So what was the time here?  When do you assume Doug was told of this plan?  Also do you think that the Pegulas essentially allowed Sean to “pick” his GM?

 

If this was the case, I’m shocked that it was never leaked to the media.  That’s why I find this whole story so interesting.  

 

It it would also shoot down the narrative that Terry envisioned the new coach working with Doug as GM

I would think that Whaley saw the writing on the wall regardless of when he was told. 

 

Yes, McDermott had A LOT of say in the GM. The Pegula’s wanted that after the divide between Rex and Whaley. (As an aside Whaley was about 20,000,000,000x better at his job than Rex was at his). 

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

Whaley survived multiple coaches and was as good as gone when Rex was fired...

 

but you don't get rid of a GM a few months before the draft. He already did so much work for it... and besides, whaleys real problem was cap management not finding talent

 

McDermott identified guys he liked for the draft and What he would like to accomplish and Whaley did his job

Whaley and his scouts did the scouting and put together the board that McDermott worked off of. My understanding is that McDermott made the draft selections. I used to be a Whaley supporter but the excuses for me ran out a long time ago. When you bring up the issue of cap management you can't look at it just from a financial sense. Inherent in cap management is the ratio between talent and cost. The cap and the talent are inextricably intertwined. A big mistake in a cap decision certainly impacts the talent you can bring on board. 

 

What undercut Whaley more than anything else is that he didn't get a franchise qb. Shortly after his departure he was asked in an interview if he had to do it over what would he do differently. Without hesitation his response was to be more aggressive on the qb issue. Duh!!!!!

 

I understand your point that Whaley had to contend with working with coaches that he didn't hire. It certainly contributed to his struggles. The Rex albatross certainly wasn't his fault. That hire did more to sabotage him than anything else other than not having an adequate qb. And for that he is primarily responsible for that failure. 

 

What I can say now under the McBeane regime there is more coherency and strategic thinking within the organization than their has been in a long time. There is no question that this regime is an upgrade over the Whaley and previous regime. 

[Buffalo716]

2 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Whaley and his scouts did the scouting and put together the board that McDermott worked off of. My understanding is that McDermott made the draft selections. I used to be a Whaley supporter but the excuses for me ran out a long time ago. When you bring up the issue of cap management you can't look at it just from a financial sense. Inherent in cap management is the ratio between talent and cost. The cap and the talent are inextricably intertwined. A big mistake in a cap decision certainly impacts the talent you can bring on board. 

 

What undercut Whaley more than anything else is that he didn't get a franchise qb. Shortly after his departure he was asked in an interview if he had to do it over what would he do differently. Without hesitation his response was to be more aggressive on the qb issue. Duh!!!!!

 

I understand your point that Whaley had to contend with working with coaches that he didn't hire. It certainly contributed to his struggles. The Rex albatross certainly wasn't his fault. That hire did more to sabotage him than anything else other than not having an adequate qb. And for that he is primarily responsible for that failure. 

 

What I can say now under the McBeane regime there is more coherency and strategic thinking within the organization than their has been in a long time. There is no question that this regime is an upgrade over the Whaley and previous regime. 

 

Oh im not arguing that it's not better. Whaley certainly had his faults which led to his downfall 

 

and this regime seems to be coordinated 

[Seanbillsfan2206]

April 30, 2017

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

37 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Being a professional never hurts and Whaley has always enjoyed that reputation. I’d give him a job but I’d insist on intense media training as part of the deal. He simply cannot get all flustered by the Jerry Sullivans of the world, get pissed, and lose focus like he was prone to do under the glare of media scrutiny. That said, Sully and several others were less than professional on several occasions, in other venues like bars and restaurants over the years so I can see why he had such a short fuse when it came to them.

 

...fair assessment.....he was a decent personnel guy always churning the roster 24/7 for talent to improve the club....will forever be a ton of unanswered questions as far as his responsibilities/say among the OBD "power players"......so we're left with a ton of speculative opinions.......pretty obvious from his pressers that he was an introvert versus extrovert as far as being in the spotlight......maybe a C- grade at Pitt for Public Speaking 101.....his "mumblin', grumblin' & stumblin' in that arena may have fueled opinions about his abilities...BUT...we're on to a new regime....

[JohnC]

Just now, Buffalo716 said:

 

Oh im not arguing that it's not better. Whaley certainly had his faults which led to his downfall 

 

and this regime seems to be coordinated 

We really are not disagreeing. For the most part we are in accord. Where I will no longer exhibit patience is on the issue of the qb. Any GM who doesn't secure a credible qb over a reasonable period of time is a failure. The Bills have not had a legitimate franchise qb for almost a quarter century, since the retirement of Kelly. That is a disgrace and an embarrassment. On that issue/metric Whaley didn't get the job done.