Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 1, 2018 Posted March 1, 2018 20 minutes ago, starrymessenger said: I think there is a good chance LJ winds up in Arizona if he doesn't come off the board before. My ranking of the QB prospects in this class= 1) Josh Rosen 2) Lamar Jackson 3)Baker/Sam (flip a coin) 4) Josh Allen. They are all first round worthy, and that's where I think they go. Wow, I don't normally have an opinion on the college draft, but I've been making an effort this year to investigate QB and I tots don't agree. My personal ranking is: 1) Rosen 2) Mayfield (Mayfield has better and more consistent throwing mechanics than Jackson) 3) Darnold (height and attributes) 4) Jackson 5) Rudolph 6) Allen My perception of the GM ranking is: 1) Darnold 2) Rosen 3) Allen (may flip flop with Rosen due to perceived personality issues from Rosen.) 4) Mayfield (toward the end of the first) 5) Rudolph (possibly 2nd round, and may flip flop with Mayfield) 6) Jackson (possibly 2nd round) I say this because I think there is still a lot of GM bias against shorter QB - less than before RW, but still there - and also perception bias against a QB perceived as "run first", as well as GM bias towards QB who "look the way you want your QB to look" and can throw a rocket. I also think Jackson's choice of his Mom as his agent will cost him due to his agent not talking him up in evening GM booze-fests in suites and at the bars
Solomon Grundy Posted March 1, 2018 Posted March 1, 2018 11 hours ago, #34fan said: You know how many BUSTS own a heisman? Sh_t, they gave Manziel a Heisman... Doesn't mean jack squat... Kaepernick passed for more yards with a higher comp % Kaepernick threw way more touchdowns. Kaepernicck rushed for more touchdowns, Kaepernick GRADUATED with a degree in business management And, this was all after being drafted by the Cubs as a pitching prospect! Pretty ridiculous and reprehensible if you ask me.. Kaep played 4 yrs. Jackson 2 1/2
Mat68 Posted March 1, 2018 Posted March 1, 2018 Jackson and Cam are two different players with different styles. What Beane is talking about is the doubt that each are and have faced are similar at the same point in each of their careers. Its easy to play revisionist history and say that everyone expected Newton to go 1 and become a great players but that was not the case. Polian was in the league but those analyst of his ilk all said the same thing. Newton is a run first Qb and cannot win inside the pocket as a pro. He is too inaccurate to be a success. His only positives were his size and running ability. I understand the comparison and believe that it is very similar in terms of his detractors. The style of play that Jackson will have Taylor really could be a perfect bridge Qb for him Taylor has a pretty good feel for when to run, when to throw it away and importantly how to avoid taking big shots. Jackson those a good ball. Like any athletic guy he will miss throws high and outside when he throws from an awkward base. When in rythm Jackson can throw as well as anyone. Like every Qb in this draft not named Rosen, he cleans up some of his foot work and he will be fine.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 1, 2018 Posted March 1, 2018 (edited) 35 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said: I think it's possible. I feel like his small hands and lack of arm strength will turn them off, but I could be completely wrong. How he does on the board with offensive concepts is going to be critical for him. I don't think he is much better than Nate Peterman honestly. Similar arm strength, Rudolph has better size, Nate has bigger hands, Nate had experience in a pro style offense coming in. I don't think Rudolph move s the needle the way the top five guys would, and would therefore be a wasted pick. In the fourth round its fine. Isn't there a point that Rudolph played against a higher level of competition than Peterman (or Jackson for that matter)? I'm college football ignorant.... What are Rudolph's measurements? Looking and not finding. And we'll see - while Rudolph clearly doesn't have the arm that Darnold or Allen have, or the technique to maximize his arm that Rosen has - I think it's shortchanging him to compare him to Peterman. Edited March 1, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan
starrymessenger Posted March 1, 2018 Posted March 1, 2018 35 minutes ago, Buffalo Bills Detective said: How does Lamar Jackson compare to, say, Ryan Mallett when he declared? He does not IMO. If you are looking at RM's class the better comparison is Cam. Outside of that class, Mike Vick. Cam is 30 pounds heavier but I think LJ will benefit greatly from a NFL strength & conditioning program. I don't see why he wouldn't be able to put on another 10-15 lbs. He bulked up from his sophomore to his junior year. At 6/3 230 he will be a big QB, big enuf. I understand that he can't run at the next level the way he did in college. But neither has he shown any indication that he is prone to injury. Quite the contrary. My ranking is based on the belief that Jackson, if given the chance, can develop into a good pocket passer to go with his being a threat to help himself out with his legs. Right now he is not the passer that Mayfield is for example, but I see Jackson as one of those guys who has consistently and will continue to improve. That upward trajectory is something that has to figure prominently in the evaluation, and not just for Jackson. For all of these prospects with the exception of Rosen, there is a fair amount of "projecting" that has to be done. I think the case can be made that Jackson is the guy who has shown the most promise in terms of that "continuing to improve at the next level" thing. Thats why I rank him as the # 2 prospect. I know this is a minority view.
MrEpsYtown Posted March 1, 2018 Posted March 1, 2018 6 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Isn't there a point that Rudolph played against a higher level of competition than Peterman? What are Rudolph's measurements? Looking and not finding. And we'll see - while Rudolph clearly doesn't have the arm that Darnold or Allen have, or the technique to maximize his arm that Rosen has - I think it's shortchanging him to compare him to Peterman. I tend to disagree. Most of the OK State wins this year were blowouts. Their toughest matchup was Oklahoma, who beat them 62-52. They also had a really tough loss to TCU. Peterman's senior year featured marquee wins against Clemson and Penn State, plus wins over Villanova, Georgia Tech, Virginia, and a tough loss to Virginia Tech. If you really look closely at the level of competition, it's pretty comparable. In terms of potential, I think Rudolph is Bryce Petty, a guy with some size and physical tools who needs a ton of work. Petty was a fourth rounder. Peterman was a fifth. I guess my argument is that Rudolph is much closer to Peterman, than he is to any of the top guys in this draft. He is a third, fourth round pick in my opinion. I think he is a future solid backup to develop. Also in terms of measurables these were his measurables at the Combine: 6041 229 9 1/8 32 1/2 78 3/4 His hands are tiny for a guy his size. I think Jackson sneaks into the first round the first round.
ddaryl Posted March 1, 2018 Posted March 1, 2018 1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: In terms of talent relative to the rest of the field, sure but QB are overvalued. It's like buying a house near San Francisco, expect to pay $1.5M for a house that would be $300k in Buffalo or Missouri. They say this every year and every year 1 or more QB's with obvious flaws drop.. Its all pre draft hype and the fact fans are desperate for QBs that moves them upwards on mocks. add in all the FA options and I can easily see a few QB's dropping while teams use there 1st rd picks to get BPA"s
John from Riverside Posted March 1, 2018 Posted March 1, 2018 13 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: same stuff was said here about Watson last year..... Yep....and people were also talking about Watson's lack of arm strength....where Lamar Jackson has a cannon.
YattaOkasan Posted March 1, 2018 Posted March 1, 2018 1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Isn't there a point that Rudolph played against a higher level of competition than Peterman (or Jackson for that matter)? I'm college football ignorant.... What are Rudolph's measurements? Looking and not finding. And we'll see - while Rudolph clearly doesn't have the arm that Darnold or Allen have, or the technique to maximize his arm that Rosen has - I think it's shortchanging him to compare him to Peterman. I agree with MrEpsYtown. The ACC is comparable to the Big 12. They are both Power 6 conferences that arent the SEC. If anything the defense in the ACC is better than the Big 12 right?
#34fan Posted March 1, 2018 Posted March 1, 2018 3 hours ago, TuelTime said: Cut Tyrod, draft Jackson, sign Kaep, and win Super Bowl! Hm. -Doesn't sound half bad... As long as you get away with not taking Jackson at 21 or 22... 4 hours ago, aristocrat said: Jackson’s final two seasons were better than kaps best season If you can't beat 'em, -change the subject. From a cumulative body of work standpoint pre-draft Lamar can't touch pre-draft Kaepernick... If there wasn't all this money on the table, I'd recommend Lamar stay in school.
#34fan Posted March 1, 2018 Posted March 1, 2018 2 hours ago, the skycap said: Kaep played 4 yrs. Jackson 2 1/2 True... And here's the statement again.... 15 hours ago, aristocrat said: Oh please he’s done way more than kap did. Which is STILL bullsh_t... For whatever reason. (Played longer, etc..)
BillsCelticsAngelsBama Posted March 1, 2018 Posted March 1, 2018 24 minutes ago, #34fan said: True... And here's the statement again.... Which is STILL bullsh_t... For whatever reason. (Played longer, etc..) You have a losing argument, yet you persist. You know the virtue of keeping quiet so no one knows you're a f00l
BuffaloBillsGospel Posted March 1, 2018 Posted March 1, 2018 16 hours ago, arcane said: I've watched him a few times and his touch/placement is not there. Even in the highlight clips his open-by-an-acre receivers are adjusting and slowing and veering to get under his throws. I've seen them downright halt in their routes before. It's bad and since accuracy can't be taught, I stay far away from Lamar (and Allen). Show me these videos where a WR is full on halting to catch Jackson's pass, I have watched him 2 seasons straight all of his games, show me this video. 1
Southern Bills Fan Posted March 1, 2018 Posted March 1, 2018 I'm no expert but I watched 5-6 Louisville games the past few years. Jackson looks like a great athlete but a very poor passer to me. 50 minutes ago, BuffaloBillsGospel said: Show me these videos where a WR is full on halting to catch Jackson's pass, I have watched him 2 seasons straight all of his games, show me this video. Here is his last college game. Some decent throws but some horrible accuracy also.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 1, 2018 Posted March 1, 2018 4 hours ago, ddaryl said: They say this every year and every year 1 or more QB's with obvious flaws drop.. Its all pre draft hype and the fact fans are desperate for QBs that moves them upwards on mocks. add in all the FA options and I can easily see a few QB's dropping while teams use there 1st rd picks to get BPA"s I think both can be true, actually. People are saying "4 QB drafted in the first 10 picks", I don't believe that, I think there's pre-draft hype and draft pundit puffery OTOH, I think that QB that some of us look at and say "2nd round, maybe 3rd" will get inflated to bottom of the 1st/top of the 2nd
#34fan Posted March 1, 2018 Posted March 1, 2018 1 hour ago, MOVALLEYRANDY said: You have a losing argument, yet you persist. You know the virtue of keeping quiet so no one knows you're a f00l Jackson leaves college with no diploma, more interceptions, and a worse completion percentage than Colin Kaepernick... If you're awestruck by that, I could make you chase a laser-pointer.
Franco_92 Posted March 1, 2018 Posted March 1, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, BuffaloBillsGospel said: Show me these videos where a WR is full on halting to catch Jackson's pass, I have watched him 2 seasons straight all of his games, show me this video. Call me crazy, I know, but I don't have footage available of the ~5th best QB prospects hundreds of attempts this past year? It's hard enough to get anything beyond highlight videos, much less an exact !@#$ing throw from the exact game. Edited March 1, 2018 by arcane
Solomon Grundy Posted March 1, 2018 Posted March 1, 2018 1 hour ago, Southern Bills Fan said: I'm no expert but I watched 5-6 Louisville games the past few years. Jackson looks like a great athlete but a very poor passer to me. Here is his last college game. Some decent throws but some horrible accuracy also. Just watched video and saw multiple dropped passes by his receivers. One pass sailed on him under heavy pressure and his first pass on this video was just bad.
John from Riverside Posted March 1, 2018 Posted March 1, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Southern Bills Fan said: I'm no expert but I watched 5-6 Louisville games the past few years. Jackson looks like a great athlete but a very poor passer to me. Here is his last college game. Some decent throws but some horrible accuracy also. Every QB in this draft has these Edited March 1, 2018 by John from Riverside
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