Buffalo Bills Detective Posted February 28, 2018 Posted February 28, 2018 1 hour ago, kdiggz said: ABSOLUTELY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Say they trade up for Rosen by giving the Giants (or Colts) both 2018 1sts and a 2019 1st and 2nd. As the season progresses, it becomes clear that Dawkins is not a franchise LT, as Rosen just keeps taking hit after hit after hit. Beane and McDermott know they have to get a franchise LT to protect their franchise QB. But, guess what? YOU DON'T HAVE A 1ST ROUND PICK IN 2019 TO USE ON A FRANCHISE LT, NOR DO YOU HAVE A 2019 2ND ROUND PICK! But, you'll probably come back to this with "dude, they still have two 2nd round picks that they can use on an offensive tackle that could take over for Dawkins at LT." The problem with that though, is the top LT prospect in this class is Mike McGlinchey, who's projected to go in the 1st. Every other prospect is considered to be a better fit for guard or RT. Moreover, this team STILL has a crying need at WR and, if Preston Brown walks and Kyle's future is uncertain, and they can't sign a top LB or DT (ex. Star Lotulelei) in free agency, now you have two more major holes that need to be filled and could be filled with those two 2nd round picks. Not to worry though. I'm sure this fanbase will be more than content to give away the store for Rosen and use those two 2nd round picks on the 3rd best WR available and a guard/RT prospect and go into training camp with a 3rd round LBer and Jerel Worthy and Adolphus Washington as your starting DTs.
K D Posted February 28, 2018 Posted February 28, 2018 (edited) In 3 years we will have all of the pieces you are complaining about. It's a PROCESS. You don't get those pieces first because the rookie QB has to sit for a bit then struggle until they figure things out. By season 2 or 3 is when they start looking the part. So after 3 years all of the pieces you got before getting a QB are moving on in free agency. Edited February 28, 2018 by kdiggz 1
wagon127 Posted February 28, 2018 Posted February 28, 2018 42 minutes ago, Buffalo Bills Detective said: Say they trade up for Rosen by giving the Giants (or Colts) both 2018 1sts and a 2019 1st and 2nd. As the season progresses, it becomes clear that Dawkins is not a franchise LT, as Rosen just keeps taking hit after hit after hit. Beane and McDermott know they have to get a franchise LT to protect their franchise QB. But, guess what? YOU DON'T HAVE A 1ST ROUND PICK IN 2019 TO USE ON A FRANCHISE LT, NOR DO YOU HAVE A 2019 2ND ROUND PICK! But, you'll probably come back to this with "dude, they still have two 2nd round picks that they can use on an offensive tackle that could take over for Dawkins at LT." The problem with that though, is the top LT prospect in this class is Mike McGlinchey, who's projected to go in the 1st. Every other prospect is considered to be a better fit for guard or RT. Moreover, this team STILL has a crying need at WR and, if Preston Brown walks and Kyle's future is uncertain, and they can't sign a top LB or DT (ex. Star Lotulelei) in free agency, now you have two more major holes that need to be filled and could be filled with those two 2nd round picks. Not to worry though. I'm sure this fanbase will be more than content to give away the store for Rosen and use those two 2nd round picks on the 3rd best WR available and a guard/RT prospect and go into training camp with a 3rd round LBer and Jerel Worthy and Adolphus Washington as your starting DTs. There will be other ways we can fill those positions. There is a gamble every year in the draft. Its almost like a game of poker. And people will decide if we won or lost the draft on April 29th. Of course it will take several years to really decide that. You are assuming that if we traded all that, we would automatically be set up for failure, and essentially waste Josh Rosen's career, like the Sabres are wasting Eichel's. Dan Marino was picked at 27 in 1983. Maybe the Generational talent we want will be there at 21 or 22. We don't know, but all we can do is go with our gut. I'm sorry, but even when we drafted EJ Manual in the first round, we were all very excited to see how he would do. If we draft any Quarterback in the first round this year, its going to be exciting. I'm not going to allow myself to sit there on April 26th pissed because of what you said. This Quarterback we get, will be with us for 4 years at a minimum, and we aren't trading every single 1st and 2nd round pick from those 4 years. The Eagles traded a lot to get Carson Wentz, and they were able to win the super bowl even after he got injured. I thought according to your logic, the Eagles would have tons of holes throughout the rest of the team, after losing other draft picks. The rams still made the playoffs, after trading a lot to get Jared Goff. They were both in the playoffs in those Quarterbacks 2nd year. There are also tons of examples where it doesn't work. Lets watch and find out what happens.
GreggTX Posted February 28, 2018 Posted February 28, 2018 I suspect that keeping all of our day 1 and 2 picks would be the best course because some QB needy teams will sign one of these average to very slightly above average FA QB's before the draft and look elsewhere. Still, if they really think Rosen is a future star, then go for it. In either case, I just want them to understand that rebuilding starts at the QB position -- something Whaley never grasped. Everything else is secondary. 1 hour ago, wppete said: I can see us trading up with NYG with the connection of Bean and Getleman. Package our 2 first round picks, 1 second round pick and Cordy Glenn. Then we have a gaping hole at LT. Dawkins is not a very good pass blocker and should be moved to the right side. Glenn has played well when healthy. We already have a hole at C too and we are weak at RG. Richie is 34. Let's not be so quick to give away one of only 2 remaining OL that have played well in the past. We have around a dozen holes to fill on our roster right now. Let's not keep adding more. I'm anxious to see how Glenn can move and if he still has pain in that bad foot since his 2nd surgery. No one ever seems to take that into account. Oh and no team is very likely to let a good OT walk anyways. They are a rare species these days. Do you really want Mills to be our starting RT again? He's as good or better than anyone else we'll be able to sign as a FA.
Buffalo Bills Detective Posted February 28, 2018 Posted February 28, 2018 16 minutes ago, wagon127 said: There will be other ways we can fill those positions. There is a gamble every year in the draft. Its almost like a game of poker. And people will decide if we won or lost the draft on April 29th. Of course it will take several years to really decide that. You are assuming that if we traded all that, we would automatically be set up for failure, and essentially waste Josh Rosen's career, like the Sabres are wasting Eichel's. Dan Marino was picked at 27 in 1983. Maybe the Generational talent we want will be there at 21 or 22. We don't know, but all we can do is go with our gut. I'm sorry, but even when we drafted EJ Manual in the first round, we were all very excited to see how he would do. If we draft any Quarterback in the first round this year, its going to be exciting. I'm not going to allow myself to sit there on April 26th pissed because of what you said. This Quarterback we get, will be with us for 4 years at a minimum, and we aren't trading every single 1st and 2nd round pick from those 4 years. The Eagles traded a lot to get Carson Wentz, and they were able to win the super bowl even after he got injured. I thought according to your logic, the Eagles would have tons of holes throughout the rest of the team, after losing other draft picks. The rams still made the playoffs, after trading a lot to get Jared Goff. They were both in the playoffs in those Quarterbacks 2nd year. There are also tons of examples where it doesn't work. Lets watch and find out what happens. The Eagles didn't have major holes throughout their roster when they traded up for Wentz. They had the following players on their roster when that trade was made: Jason Peters (LT), Lane Johnson (RT), Zach Ertz (TE), Fletcher Cox (DT), Brandon Graham (DE), Jordan Hicks (LB), Jordan Matthews (WR, when healthy, was productive), Nelson Agholor (WR). The point? They had pieces in place and could AFFORD to move up to the 2nd pick for Wentz The Rams were in a similar situation as the Eagles when they traded up for Goff. Their problem was that Jeff Fisher had no idea what he was doing and McVay and Wade Phillips actually DO KNOW what they're doing.
John from Riverside Posted February 28, 2018 Posted February 28, 2018 4 hours ago, Buffalo Bills Detective said: The only way the Bills would be in a position to move up for Rosen, would be for Darnold or Allen to go 1st overall, the Giants take Saquon Barkley at 2 and they trade up to 3 with Indy. Even then, do you want this team, with all of its holes, to give up 2 firsts this year and possibly a 1st and 2nd in 2019 for Rosen? If they do it I wont slam them for it This is the one move the bills have not tried in order to get this team to the next level. Go all in on a QB. Rosen is very talented
Buffalo Bills Detective Posted February 28, 2018 Posted February 28, 2018 1 minute ago, John from Hemet said: If they do it I wont slam them for it This is the one move the bills have not tried in order to get this team to the next level. Go all in on a QB. Rosen is very talented Go all in on a QB, even with the number of holes throughout this roster at WR, LB, DT and OT?
John from Riverside Posted February 28, 2018 Posted February 28, 2018 1 minute ago, Buffalo Bills Detective said: The Eagles didn't have major holes throughout their roster when they traded up for Wentz. They had the following players on their roster when that trade was made: Jason Peters (LT), Lane Johnson (RT), Zach Ertz (TE), Fletcher Cox (DT), Brandon Graham (DE), Jordan Hicks (LB), Jordan Matthews (WR, when healthy, was productive), Nelson Agholor (WR). The point? They had pieces in place and could AFFORD to move up to the 2nd pick for Wentz The Rams were in a similar situation as the Eagles when they traded up for Goff. Their problem was that Jeff Fisher had no idea what he was doing and McVay and Wade Phillips actually DO KNOW what they're doing. Yeah and we have Cordy Glenn, Dawkins (OT) A pretty darn good TE A beast pass rusher in Hughes Matt Milano is a stud Jordan Mathews is ours if we want him.....and we do have Kelvin Benjamin I think we are in just as good a position to take that dive.......but lets say for a second that our talent didnt match the eagles.....We managed to make the playoffs this last year with far less talent......have money to spend on free agents this year and will have a TON to spend this next offseason. If you have a franchise QB.....all of a sudden these other positions become far less important because you find new ways to win. Just now, Buffalo Bills Detective said: Go all in on a QB, even with the number of holes throughout this roster at WR, LB, DT and OT? Yes
Buffalo Bills Detective Posted February 28, 2018 Posted February 28, 2018 2 minutes ago, John from Hemet said: Yeah and we have Cordy Glenn, Dawkins (OT) A pretty darn good TE A beast pass rusher in Hughes Matt Milano is a stud Jordan Mathews is ours if we want him.....and we do have Kelvin Benjamin I think we are in just as good a position to take that dive.......but lets say for a second that our talent didnt match the eagles.....We managed to make the playoffs this last year with far less talent......have money to spend on free agents this year and will have a TON to spend this next offseason. If you have a franchise QB.....all of a sudden these other positions become far less important because you find new ways to win. Yes A pretty darn good TE - A TE who seems to be injured all the time and is NOWHERE NEAR the talent level of Ertz A beast pass rusher in Hughes - When he's not being double-teamed, which he was for the majority of last season Matt Milano is a stud - How do you know this? He could be the next Keith Ellison for all we know. You're right, we do have Kelvin Benjamin...a Kelvin Benjamin with a litany of knee issues.
John from Riverside Posted February 28, 2018 Posted February 28, 2018 2 minutes ago, Buffalo Bills Detective said: A pretty darn good TE - A TE who seems to be injured all the time and is NOWHERE NEAR the talent level of Ertz A beast pass rusher in Hughes - When he's not being double-teamed, which he was for the majority of last season Matt Milano is a stud - How do you know this? He could be the next Keith Ellison for all we know. You're right, we do have Kelvin Benjamin...a Kelvin Benjamin with a litany of knee issues. You can choose to downplay the talent on our team if you wish....I disagree with you on most of these points
Dr. Who Posted February 28, 2018 Posted February 28, 2018 17 minutes ago, Buffalo Bills Detective said: A pretty darn good TE - A TE who seems to be injured all the time and is NOWHERE NEAR the talent level of Ertz A beast pass rusher in Hughes - When he's not being double-teamed, which he was for the majority of last season Matt Milano is a stud - How do you know this? He could be the next Keith Ellison for all we know. You're right, we do have Kelvin Benjamin...a Kelvin Benjamin with a litany of knee issues. You take every equivocal situation and assume the worst. When offered an alternative scenario, you pretend that your pessimism is rational and everyone who disagrees is a fool. I doubt it will cost three firsts and a second to get up into the top three, but as others have pointed out, there are still more draft picks and free agency, which you appear to ignore in your assessment. It's easy to win an argument when you beg all the questions. But even granting certitude for all your surmises, you still consistently ignore the question you have been asked multiple times -- if you foresee a bad record, regardless, than why not get a franchise qb and build for the future? Logic, Hercule, give it a try. Agatha Christie killed her detective off because she didn't want incompetent imitators ruining a splendid reputation. 2
Chicken Boo Posted February 28, 2018 Posted February 28, 2018 41 minutes ago, Buffalo Bills Detective said: Go all in on a QB, even with the number of holes throughout this roster at WR, LB, DT and OT? There's this thing called free agency and draft rounds 2-7. 1
bkep32 Posted February 28, 2018 Posted February 28, 2018 Maybe he falls like aaron rodgers did and he is there at 22..not 21 cuz i think aaron rodgers was 22nd or was it 27th i dont have time to look it up. But i like rosen, i watch the elite 11 on nfl network and liked what i saw from him. Would be wishful thinking if he fell that far! =)
Real McClappy Posted February 28, 2018 Posted February 28, 2018 6 hours ago, Buffalo Bills Detective said: The only way the Bills would be in a position to move up for Rosen, would be for Darnold or Allen to go 1st overall, the Giants take Saquon Barkley at 2 and they trade up to 3 with Indy. Even then, do you want this team, with all of its holes, to give up 2 firsts this year and possibly a 1st and 2nd in 2019 for Rosen? 100% = YES 1 hour ago, Buffalo Bills Detective said: Go all in on a QB, even with the number of holes throughout this roster at WR, LB, DT and OT? YUP
The_Dude Posted February 28, 2018 Posted February 28, 2018 If we land Rosen, Darnold, or Mayfield I’ll be thrilled. I’m getting there on Jackson. Not there on Allen. 1
NewEraBills Posted February 28, 2018 Posted February 28, 2018 6 hours ago, Buffalo Bills Detective said: The only way the Bills would be in a position to move up for Rosen, would be for Darnold or Allen to go 1st overall, the Giants take Saquon Barkley at 2 and they trade up to 3 with Indy. Even then, do you want this team, with all of its holes, to give up 2 firsts this year and possibly a 1st and 2nd in 2019 for Rosen? 1 NO. I'm in the camp of you have to have a price point or else you get taken for whatever. I could see 21 and 22 this year and maybe a 3rd next year but I'd be very difficult to convince in giving up next year's 1st. Again, I believe in having a price point and then negotiating from that. Given the parameters we are working with I think you set your price point and you can negotiate a little further or back, but for guys to just want to give up everything it tells me they have no price point at all. And to me a person that doesn't have a price point to negotiate from is one who can get suckered into taking anything and it just reeks of desperation. KC gave up their 1st for this year to move up 17 spots. They gave up a current and a future 1st to move up 17 spots. Why in the hell would anyone give up 2 current 1st and a future 1st to move up 16 spots? I'd hate it if we did that. I don't care who the player is. If we give up 2 1sts and a 3rd I could get on board with it. But not another first.
yungmack Posted March 1, 2018 Posted March 1, 2018 6 hours ago, Buffalo Bills Detective said: The only way the Bills would be in a position to move up for Rosen, would be for Darnold or Allen to go 1st overall, the Giants take Saquon Barkley at 2 and they trade up to 3 with Indy. Even then, do you want this team, with all of its holes, to give up 2 firsts this year and possibly a 1st and 2nd in 2019 for Rosen? If all it took was two first round picks (from the bottom of the round) to take Darnold or Rosen? Hell yes.
elltrain22 Posted March 1, 2018 Posted March 1, 2018 18 hours ago, Buffalo Bills Detective said: You enjoy losing seasons, do you? Are you kidding?? Rosen actually gives us a REAL chance not just to win, but win championships! IMHO, he's the best QB prospect to come out for the draft since Luck
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