seq004 Posted March 11, 2005 Share Posted March 11, 2005 If TD and the Bills are looking to follow in the way NE built a winner they're going the wrong way. I support them no matter what they do but every situation and every team is different. Do you remember when the Rams won it and everyone wanted to have "The greatest show on earth" or how about when the Bucs won it all and teams were saying that "Defense wins championships." Then the Patriots win and it's now become "Don't pay to much for players and they will still work hard and win." I'm paraphasing here but I always notice that it's the team that doesn't follow the leader and instead creates it's own path that leads to success. Yeah that worked with the Patriots it doesn't mean it will work for other teams. I like TD as our GM but if their is one glaring weakness it's his inability to either draft or sign lineman who are going to win you games. The O-line has been poor since the end of the Kelly days. He needs to get at least one key player in at LT. I'm not saying become Daniel Snyder and screw up your cap but right now we have two key players who left and thats OK with me they wanted to much but he needs to make moves to off set their departure. If he's just going to sign Gandy and let Jonas go to me that's not an adequate plan to off set a player leaving on a O-line that still needs improvement. JMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted March 11, 2005 Share Posted March 11, 2005 Gotta disagree. The Pats motto isn't just "Don't pay too much for players." Rather, it's Moneyball applied to football - find what the market is undervaluing and buy a lot of it - stay away from what the market is overvaluing. Right now (and maybe forever), the market is overvaluing skill positions (WRs, CBs, pass-rushing DEs, big-armed QBs and LTs), and undervaluing other positions - specifically, LBs, safeties, guards, running backs, special teamers, etc. The market also is overvaluing younger players and undervaluing older players. Finally, and CRUCIALLY, the market has been undervaluing coaching, which doesn't count towards the salary cap (that particular inefficiency has been closing lately, however, with quality asst. coaches getting paid more and more). So, what do the Pats do? They invest heavily in interior linemen. They buy tons of vet linebackers on the cheap, and utilize a system that rewards their skills (the hybrid 3-4). They bring pressure with blitzes instead of with one or two stud DEs (just like the Bills). They put an offense on the field that favors ball distribution and efficiency over speed and downfield strikes. They (discover?) the most mobile-in-the-pocket QB in the game, which allows them not to overspend on o-linemen. And, finally, they stock up on first-rate coaches and talent evaluators who understand the business model and keep the talent coming. THAT is the Pats formula, and it IS the way to go. Not coincidentally, the Eagles and Steelers also follow that formula. The Rams were a fluke. And, in my opinion, although Donahoe is starting to get it (dumping the downfield Bledsoe offense, relying on numbers to create pressure, finding projects to develop into guards), he's still been too enamored with skill positions - plus, he hasn't figured out how to make the most use of scrap heap veteran players. For the record, I think this is one of my better posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted March 11, 2005 Share Posted March 11, 2005 Gotta disagree. The Pats motto isn't just "Don't pay too much for players." Rather, it's Moneyball applied to football - find what the market is undervaluing and buy a lot of it - stay away from what the market is overvaluing. Right now (and maybe forever), the market is overvaluing skill positions (WRs, CBs, pass-rushing DEs, big-armed QBs and LTs), and undervaluing other positions - specifically, LBs, safeties, guards, running backs, special teamers, etc. The market also is overvaluing younger players and undervaluing older players. Finally, and CRUCIALLY, the market has been undervaluing coaching, which doesn't count towards the salary cap (that particular inefficiency has been closing lately, however, with quality asst. coaches getting paid more and more). So, what do the Pats do? They invest heavily in interior linemen. They buy tons of vet linebackers on the cheap, and utilize a system that rewards their skills (the hybrid 3-4). They bring pressure with blitzes instead of with one or two stud DEs (just like the Bills). They put an offense on the field that favors ball distribution and efficiency over speed and downfield strikes. They (discover?) the most mobile-in-the-pocket QB in the game, which allows them not to overspend on o-linemen. And, finally, they stock up on first-rate coaches and talent evaluators who understand the business model and keep the talent coming. THAT is the Pats formula, and it IS the way to go. Not coincidentally, the Eagles and Steelers also follow that formula. The Rams were a fluke. And, in my opinion, although Donahoe is starting to get it (dumping the downfield Bledsoe offense, relying on numbers to create pressure, finding projects to develop into guards), he's still been too enamored with skill positions - plus, he hasn't figured out how to make the most use of scrap heap veteran players. For the record, I think this is one of my better posts. 270325[/snapback] Right you are. Good post, Coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted March 11, 2005 Share Posted March 11, 2005 THAT is the Pats formula, and it IS the way to go. Not coincidentally, the Eagles and Steelers also follow that formula. The Rams were a fluke. And, in my opinion, although Donahoe is starting to get it (dumping the downfield Bledsoe offense, relying on numbers to create pressure, finding projects to develop into guards), he's still been too enamored with skill positions - plus, he hasn't figured out how to make the most use of scrap heap veteran players. For the record, I think this is one of my better posts. 270325[/snapback] actually, the Eagles dump their older players. at the very least none of them get large, long-term contratcs. Over 30? Don't look for a payday in Philly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phlegm Alley Posted March 11, 2005 Share Posted March 11, 2005 I don't wear Air Nikes because they cost a $100 and they look cool. I wear them because they make me jump higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradRiter Posted March 11, 2005 Share Posted March 11, 2005 Gotta disagree. The Pats motto isn't just "Don't pay too much for players." Rather, it's Moneyball applied to football - find what the market is undervaluing and buy a lot of it - stay away from what the market is overvaluing. For the record, I think this is one of my better posts. 270325[/snapback] For the record, this is the best post I've ever read on this site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted March 11, 2005 Share Posted March 11, 2005 Gotta disagree. The Pats motto isn't just "Don't pay too much for players." Rather, it's Moneyball applied to football - find what the market is undervaluing and buy a lot of it - stay away from what the market is overvaluing. Right now (and maybe forever), the market is overvaluing skill positions (WRs, CBs, pass-rushing DEs, big-armed QBs and LTs), and undervaluing other positions - specifically, LBs, safeties, guards, running backs, special teamers, etc. The market also is overvaluing younger players and undervaluing older players. Finally, and CRUCIALLY, the market has been undervaluing coaching, which doesn't count towards the salary cap (that particular inefficiency has been closing lately, however, with quality asst. coaches getting paid more and more). So, what do the Pats do? They invest heavily in interior linemen. They buy tons of vet linebackers on the cheap, and utilize a system that rewards their skills (the hybrid 3-4). They bring pressure with blitzes instead of with one or two stud DEs (just like the Bills). They put an offense on the field that favors ball distribution and efficiency over speed and downfield strikes. They (discover?) the most mobile-in-the-pocket QB in the game, which allows them not to overspend on o-linemen. And, finally, they stock up on first-rate coaches and talent evaluators who understand the business model and keep the talent coming. THAT is the Pats formula, and it IS the way to go. Not coincidentally, the Eagles and Steelers also follow that formula. The Rams were a fluke. And, in my opinion, although Donahoe is starting to get it (dumping the downfield Bledsoe offense, relying on numbers to create pressure, finding projects to develop into guards), he's still been too enamored with skill positions - plus, he hasn't figured out how to make the most use of scrap heap veteran players. For the record, I think this is one of my better posts. 270325[/snapback] All good points...but equally important, it never hurts to have 100 Draft Picks every year...The way the Patsies accumulated Draft Picks over the last half decade or so was outstanding...I believe that was a huge factor in building that Championship Franchise... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozymandius Posted March 11, 2005 Share Posted March 11, 2005 If TD and the Bills are looking to follow in the way NE built a winner they're going the wrong way. I support them no matter what they do but every situation and every team is different. Do you remember when the Rams won it and everyone wanted to have "The greatest show on earth" or how about when the Bucs won it all and teams were saying that "Defense wins championships." 270317[/snapback] Good post, but I disagree. Defense wins championships, and that's been the consistent Super Bowl formula for decades. New England wins because Belichick is the best defensive mind in football history. There are other factors but that is the most important one. We should imitate New England (and Baltimore, Tampa Bay, and other champions with great defenses) by building the best D we can. When the Bills win the Bowl, it'll be with the best defense in football, a D that makes plays especially in critical moments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seq004 Posted March 11, 2005 Author Share Posted March 11, 2005 Gotta disagree. The Pats motto isn't just "Don't pay too much for players." Rather, it's Moneyball applied to football - find what the market is undervaluing and buy a lot of it - stay away from what the market is overvaluing. Right now (and maybe forever), the market is overvaluing skill positions (WRs, CBs, pass-rushing DEs, big-armed QBs and LTs), and undervaluing other positions - specifically, LBs, safeties, guards, running backs, special teamers, etc. The market also is overvaluing younger players and undervaluing older players. Finally, and CRUCIALLY, the market has been undervaluing coaching, which doesn't count towards the salary cap (that particular inefficiency has been closing lately, however, with quality asst. coaches getting paid more and more). So, what do the Pats do? They invest heavily in interior linemen. They buy tons of vet linebackers on the cheap, and utilize a system that rewards their skills (the hybrid 3-4). They bring pressure with blitzes instead of with one or two stud DEs (just like the Bills). They put an offense on the field that favors ball distribution and efficiency over speed and downfield strikes. They (discover?) the most mobile-in-the-pocket QB in the game, which allows them not to overspend on o-linemen. And, finally, they stock up on first-rate coaches and talent evaluators who understand the business model and keep the talent coming. THAT is the Pats formula, and it IS the way to go. Not coincidentally, the Eagles and Steelers also follow that formula. The Rams were a fluke. And, in my opinion, although Donahoe is starting to get it (dumping the downfield Bledsoe offense, relying on numbers to create pressure, finding projects to develop into guards), he's still been too enamored with skill positions - plus, he hasn't figured out how to make the most use of scrap heap veteran players. For the record, I think this is one of my better posts. 270325[/snapback] I agree somewhat but TD hasn't invested in interior linemen. We have good skill position players but we won't get far unless he finally addresses our lineman. We also have very good coaching but our offensive line needed improvement and I just feel we have taken a step back and am afraid JP will get killed this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_wag Posted March 11, 2005 Share Posted March 11, 2005 the pats do invest in "over-valued" positions -- look at their LT........they established that as a key position and got their guy locked up WELL in advance of free agency, and saved a lot of money on the process........bills on the other hand let their young, starting LT walk out the door.......defantiely a difference in strategy there.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USMCBillsFan Posted March 11, 2005 Share Posted March 11, 2005 Good post, but I disagree. Defense wins championships, and that's been the consistent Super Bowl formula for decades. New England wins because Belichick is the best defensive mind in football history. There are other factors but that is the most important one. We should imitate New England (and Baltimore, Tampa Bay, and other champions with great defenses) by building the best D we can. When the Bills win the Bowl, it'll be with the best defense in football, a D that makes plays especially in critical moments. 270472[/snapback] I think this whole defense wins championships statement is getting overrated. Yes you need a strong defense to win a championship but as the Bills proved last year, a great defense isn't all you need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozymandius Posted March 11, 2005 Share Posted March 11, 2005 I think this whole defense wins championships statement is getting overrated. Yes you need a strong defense to win a championship but as the Bills proved last year, a great defense isn't all you need. 270555[/snapback] Yeah, only if you actually believe that the Bills had a great D last year. They beat up on a bunch of bad teams and choked against the Steelers. They remain just a good defense until they can start making plays in the clutch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obie_wan Posted March 11, 2005 Share Posted March 11, 2005 All good points...but equally important, it never hurts to have 100 Draft Picks every year...The way the Patsies accumulated Draft Picks over the last half decade or so was outstanding...I believe that was a huge factor in building that Championship Franchise... 270397[/snapback] Pats acquired extra picks and good talent by dealing from a postion of strength. They determined Drew was a turd, but convinced Teflon Tom that he was an upgrade and turned a liability into a #1 pick. Because they had an extra #1, they could afford to deal one to the Ravens for a bundle of additional picks. Extra picks allowed them to convert a 2nd rounder into a Pro Bowl RB, instead of using that pick on an underperforming WR. With a stable base in -place, Pats could afford to sit at #23 last year and grab the best DT in the draft in Wilfork. Pats pay for production and are not blinded by big names. If players are not smart enough to figure out that the program wins SBs (Milloy), then they are probably not smart enouogh to execute on the field either and are not sought by the PATs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_wag Posted March 11, 2005 Share Posted March 11, 2005 actually, the Eagles dump their older players. at the very least none of them get large, long-term contratcs. Over 30? Don't look for a payday in Philly... 270353[/snapback] under 30? look for a payday in philly.........they rarely let good, young talent go and get them wrapped up with extensions well in advance of free agency.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted March 11, 2005 Share Posted March 11, 2005 This is a copy cat league. When the 49ers were winning all of those championships in the 80's everybody wanted to run the west coast offense, when the Cowboys were winning all of those Super Bowls in the 90's everybody wanted a big nasty O-line and a big D Line with small speedy linebackers and then everybody started copying Denver by trying to go small and get some athleticism on the O-Line. Don't forget the Rams. Everybody started loading up on WR's to try to duplicate the Rams' high powered offense. The problem with copying someone else is by the time your done trying to emulate those teams' style that system has been figured out by the rest of the league. The only way you can become a champ in the NFL is to be a innovater. Try something new. Do something no one else is doing. That's why I like M&M and company so much. They do their own thing and that's why I'm confident the Bills will win a Bowl with MM and McGahee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozymandius Posted March 11, 2005 Share Posted March 11, 2005 Try something new. Do something no one else is doing. That's why I like M&M and company so much. They do their own thing and that's why I'm confident the Bills will win a Bowl with MM and McGahee. 270588[/snapback] what did MM innovate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted March 11, 2005 Share Posted March 11, 2005 Trick plays. Using Wr's at QB. Things like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_wag Posted March 11, 2005 Share Posted March 11, 2005 Trick plays. Using Wr's at QB. Things like that. 270602[/snapback] we're talking about personnel and assembling a team, not plays......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted March 11, 2005 Share Posted March 11, 2005 we're talking about personnel and assembling a team, not plays......... 270609[/snapback] Why NOT plays? The west coast offense is a playbook, is it not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted March 11, 2005 Share Posted March 11, 2005 Why NOT plays? The west coast offense is a playbook, is it not? 270612[/snapback] It is not. It is a philosophy that dictates both the particular playbook and the personnel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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