SoCal Deek Posted February 27, 2018 Posted February 27, 2018 1 hour ago, SWATeam said: You do know that Sammy is a FA, right? What is LA left with from that trade? What LA is left with is of no concern to a Bills fan. After spending two first round picks on a WR the Bills are now left with a second round pick and no significant production out of Sammy, some five years later? Fantastic!
Andrew Son Posted February 27, 2018 Posted February 27, 2018 3 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: What LA is left with is of no concern to a Bills fan. After spending two first round picks on a WR the Bills are now left with a second round pick and no significant production out of Sammy, some five years later? Fantastic! What we spent on Sammy is sunk costs and of no concern to anyone. Which would you rather have- Sammy on the team last year and then lose him to free agency, or Gaines last year AND a 2nd round pick this year? 1
SoCal Deek Posted February 27, 2018 Posted February 27, 2018 Just now, SWATeam said: What we spent on Sammy is sunk costs and of no concern to anyone. Which would you rather have- Sammy on the team last year and then lose him to free agency, or Gaines last year AND a 2nd round pick this year? Not really my point.
thebandit27 Posted February 27, 2018 Posted February 27, 2018 13 minutes ago, HappyDays said: Deonte Thompson with the Bills had about the same YPG as Sammy had with the Rams (31.9 to 39.5), despite being far less talented and showing up mid-season. He had 100 receiving yards in his first game off the plane from Chicago. That excuse doesn't work. That's because yardage and receptions are almost always a function of targets, and Deonte got the same number of targets per game as Watkins. If you include Thompson's 5 games with Chicago, their numbers are almost identical across the board...until you look at receptions of 20+ yards (9-7 in favor of Sammy), first downs (33-17 in favor of Sammy) and TDs (8-1 in favor of Sammy). That's why it's important to look at volume-based statistics versus performance-based ones. 4
BADOLBILZ Posted February 27, 2018 Posted February 27, 2018 4 minutes ago, HappyDays said: Deonte Thompson with the Bills had about the same YPG as Sammy had with the Rams (31.9 to 39.5), despite being far less talented and showing up mid-season. He had 100 receiving yards in his first game off the plane from Chicago. That excuse doesn't work. Nah....bad comparison......Deonte and Tyrod were together for two full years in Baltimore and then again in the 2015 offseason/preseason in Buffalo. Like Stevie and Fitz once were in Buffalo they were the reserves who were working together every day in Baltimore.
HappyDays Posted February 27, 2018 Posted February 27, 2018 No salary details yet? Weird. 4 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: That's because yardage and receptions are almost always a function of targets, and Deonte got the same number of targets per game as Watkins. If you include Thompson's 5 games with Chicago, their numbers are almost identical across the board...until you look at receptions of 20+ yards (9-7 in favor of Sammy), first downs (33-17 in favor of Sammy) and TDs (8-1 in favor of Sammy). That's why it's important to look at volume-based statistics versus performance-based ones. Sammy is a much better receiver than Thompson. But his production wasn't low just because he showed up late. I was just using Thompson as an example. He produced just fine even though he wasn't here until a few games into the season.
BADOLBILZ Posted February 27, 2018 Posted February 27, 2018 17 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: Hey, i said that weeks ago! Where is my gold star Coach was on this idea long ago..........you gotta' keep up with the bickering threads about Sammy and Tyrod. Watkins should have his choice of several good options to do a one year prove-it deal and either come out like Alshon Jeffery or Terrell Pryor..............my guess is he will have a big year........and with the dearth of WR talent in recent drafts the cupboard of available WR is going to get increasingly sparse..........and he will be able to turn that into a HUGE payday next offseason.......which would have been his originally scheduled FA year had the Bills picked up his option.
thebandit27 Posted February 27, 2018 Posted February 27, 2018 (edited) 9 minutes ago, HappyDays said: No salary details yet? Weird. Sammy is a much better receiver than Thompson. But his production wasn't low just because he showed up late. I was just using Thompson as an example. He produced just fine even though he wasn't here until a few games into the season. I would argue that Thompson's 27 catches weren't "just fine" (EDIT: that probably came off as a snarky comment--it isn't intended that way FWIW). He was simply the least lousy WR on this team in terms of production. Then again, he wasn't really asked to do much more than run the 2 or 3 routes he's capable of running well (which is actually good coaching IMO), so it doesn't surprise me. The reason Sammy's volume-based production wasn't there is because of the way McVay runs his offense. He likes to rotate his WRs to keep them fresh and give them an advantage against opposing DBs. His target-based production was right where it's been the rest of his career: very good. 8 TDs on 70 targets is crazy. Edited February 27, 2018 by thebandit27
BrooklynBills Posted February 27, 2018 Posted February 27, 2018 Great signing. Better than Gaines and don't have to commit long term to him. I think we are definitely taking a CB in the 2nd or 3rd round. Actually Donte Jackson is pretty logical possibility in late 2nd or 3rd round. I know, I know.... another CB. But secondary is a strength and I espouse to the theory that in roster building alot of times it better to solidify a strength.
Doc Posted February 27, 2018 Posted February 27, 2018 13 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: Not really my point. If the Bills had kept Sammy last season and then decided to let him walk in UFA this year, they'd still have sunk 2-1st rounders into him, gotten little in production, and had nothing to show for it except for maybe a comp pick in 2019. This way was far better.
HappyDays Posted February 27, 2018 Posted February 27, 2018 (edited) 16 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: Nah....bad comparison......Deonte and Tyrod were together for two full years in Baltimore and then again in the 2015 offseason/preseason in Buffalo. Like Stevie and Fitz once were in Buffalo they were the reserves who were working together every day in Baltimore. Sammy's production decreased the longer he was with the Rams. His best game, and his only 100-yard game, came in week 3. From weeks 1 to 8 he had an average of 41.4 YPG. From weeks 9 to 15 he had an average of 37.4 YPG (if you include the playoff game he had an average of 35.6 YPG after week 8). And he had a 0 yard game in week 5 which is skewing the difference. You can't look at his game log and tell me his time with the team made any difference. His last 5 weeks of the season (including the playoff game) he didn't crack 40 yards once. Edited February 27, 2018 by HappyDays
Domdab99 Posted February 27, 2018 Posted February 27, 2018 I like it, but what do you do if Donte Jackson is still on the board when we pick at 21/22? Hard not to go with him.
BADOLBILZ Posted February 27, 2018 Posted February 27, 2018 23 minutes ago, HappyDays said: Sammy's production decreased the longer he was with the Rams. His best game, and his only 100-yard game, came in week 3. From weeks 1 to 8 he had an average of 41.4 YPG. From weeks 9 to 15 he had an average of 37.4 YPG (if you include the playoff game he had an average of 35.6 YPG after week 8). And he had a 0 yard game in week 5 which is skewing the difference. You can't look at his game log and tell me his time with the team made any difference. His last 5 weeks of the season (including the playoff game) he didn't crack 40 yards once. If you'd followed the Rams season you'd know that he simply wasn't targeted. He was literally used as a decoy........he drew the coverage of Richard Sherman, Josh Norman, Jalen Ramsey and Patrick Peterson.........and the Rams simply threw to easier, quick hitting matchups against #2 and #3 CB's with Woods and Kupp when they weren't using the hell out of Gurley. Goff doesn't throw a good deep ball.....he's not a good fit with Watkins......but teams had to respect Watkins so he still drew the #1 CB and got safety help deep. This GREATLY opened up their running game. Do yourself a favor and check Todd Gurley's stats from 2016 versus 2017........makes life a lot easier on a RB when safeties can't cheat up into the box. McVay is a great play caller but Gurley without space to work is not anywhere near the same back.
greenwithenvy Posted February 27, 2018 Posted February 27, 2018 4 hours ago, SouthNYfan said: Learn to watch football. Watkins stretched the field for them and drew multiple players in coverage. He's the reason kupp and woods had so much free space. A player's impact on a game goes far beyond just the stat sheet (this goes both positively and negatively for many guys, such as tyrod holding the ball too long lowers his ints which looks good on paper but actually isn't that great during a game) Watkins helped that offense tremendously . Feel free to read this link below from a Rams' analyst, instead of a from the perspective of a Bills fan who probably didn't watch a single Rams game. https://www.turfshowtimes.com/2017/11/29/16712132/los-angeles-rams-nfl-sammy-watkins-tape-study-scouting-report He has another article that he's not sure the Rams offense scheme requires a true #1 wr, so they might still let Sammy walk, but that's not because of his talent (For the record, I am not upset we traded Sammy, as Gaines played great for us and we have another second round pick this year from it. To act like Sammy isn't an impact wr though is just wrong) I love the ego on fans that tell others to 'learn to watch football'. Get over yourself. You have no idea the knowledge/experience of who you are talking to. The assumption that you're a more intelligent fan is hilarious. As to the rest, please. The Rams traded a player + a 2nd for a 1 year rental who their scheme uses as a decoy or field stretcher. LMAO. Not bloody likely. They thought they were getting a potential #1 or a #2 at worst. Once again, Sammy came up short of expectations. Think the Rams make the trade again with the benefit of hindsight? After all, he did what he was supposed to. What more could they want? Potential without production is meaningless. 1
BADOLBILZ Posted February 27, 2018 Posted February 27, 2018 3 minutes ago, Domdab99 said: I like it, but what do you do if Donte Jackson is still on the board when we pick at 21/22? Hard not to go with him. Actually it should be easy to pass on a CB in round 1 in this system. Zone corners are typically cheap and easier to find............case in point, Vontae Davis. In a primarily man coverage defense he'd be suspect........but in zone he projects well even if he has lost a step due to age/injury because he tackles well and has shown good ball skills.
BADOLBILZ Posted February 27, 2018 Posted February 27, 2018 2 hours ago, GunnerBill said: In his prime a few years back when the Colts first got him from Miami he was very, very good. Not sure we are quite getting that same player but he is a solid pickup, no question about it. The one thing I didn't like about Gaines when he was healthy was that he drops interceptions. Bad hands. Turnovers are critical. EJ made up for it by having a great year stripping the ball away............but Vontae Davis has much better ball skills, IMO. I could see Vontae picking off 4 passes this year because he's actually done that.........Gaines rarely catches a football that hits his hands.
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