If You Ever Want a Top Rated QB Prospect...You Have to Suffer

[RalphWilson'sNewWar]

I feel this gets lost in the debate over Drafting QBs.

 

i only see it two ways into getting the top QB Talent (I should preface...agreed upon QB talent seeing as Manuel was the first QB taken, but no one believed in that class and we even traded down.)

 

You either have to...

 

1.)  Suffer by being an awful team the season before.

 

or

 

2.)  Suffer by sacrificing current players and draft capital to trade up in the draft.

 

Those are the only two options as I see it reason I’ve been thinking about this was a gentleman called up John Murphy show past week and said to John and Donald we need to wait on draft a QB “do it next season “and I was sitting listening to him and I wanted to ask that caller “sir do you realize to do it next season you’re going to have to sign up for being an awful team in 2018 or you’re going to have to trade all of your draft picks away which is what you don’t want to do this season and I believe that fans who don’t want to trade up also don’t want to be bad either.

and Buffalo seems stuck in this never ending loop.

 

Keep Tyrod until you find some better.  Well there will never be anyone in FA Better, because why would they be available if they were better.  And no rookie is going to come in immediately and you can say 100% They are better immediately.  Again stuck in a loop.

 

stuck in a loop and unwilling to pay the price.

Edited February 24, 2018 by RalphWilson'sNewWar

[26CornerBlitz]

Not the case. Countless examples to refute this.

 

 

[RalphWilson'sNewWar]

1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

Not the case. Countless examples to refute this.

 

 

 

Arent you the poster who believes the K. Benjamin Trade was just coincidence and not connections.  That was you!!!  Lol.  Your the dude who doesn’t believe in relationships.  Oh brother.

 

but beside that embarrassing post of your time on this board...let’s see the evidence.

[boyst]

Just now, 26CornerBlitz said:

Not the case. Countless examples to refute this.

 

 

I know I call you out all the time, and deservedly so because your responses are almost always this painful.

 

I advise two things to you when replying:

1) the original poster had a premise he believed in (whether you did or not, you're not special to be a judge in it's worth and see #2). So, when you disagree tell why and list examples of those countless examples. Otherwise you sound just like yourself: a joke

 

2) don't reply at all. You're not special. You're a joke.

 

Your constant inclusion to reply with one liners to someone's original thought is immature.  It is also hypocritical when you, yourself, can only muster up 99.27% of your contributions here as being someone else's content with the remaining minority lacking effort and original thought.

 

tl,dr: you're a joke and keep it to yourself, Francis.

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

 

Arent you the poster who believes the K. Benjamin Trade was just coincidence and not connections.  That was you!!!  Lol.  Your the dude who doesn’t believe in relationships.  Oh brother.

 

but beside that embarrassing post of your time on this board...let’s see the evidence.

 

I believe in relationships in every endeavor in life. But your claim in that thread about Reich was baseless. Plenty of excellent QBs have been drafted without tanking.  Big Ben, Rodgers, and Wilson just to name a few.  Another baseless claim by you. 

[boyst]

7 minutes ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

I feel this gets lost in the debate over Drafting QBs.

 

i only see it two ways into getting the top QB Talent (I should preface...agreed upon QB talent seeing as Manuel was the first QB taken, but no one believed in that class and we even traded down.)

 

You either have to...

 

1.)  Suffer by being an awful team the season before.

 

or

 

2.)  Suffer by sacrificing current players and draft capital to trade up in the draft.

 

Those are the only two options as I see it reason I’ve been thinking about this was a gentleman called up John Murphy show past week and said to John and Donald we need to wait on draft a QB “do it next season “and I was sitting listening to him and I wanted to ask that caller “sir do you realize to do it next season you’re going to have to sign up for being an awful team in 2018 or you’re going to have to trade all of your draft picks away which is what you don’t want to do this season and I believe that fans who don’t want to trade up also don’t want to be bad either.

so that leads me to believe you really never want to select a top rated college qb in the draft.

Without completely thorough scouting and the ability to develop talent at the position it is hard to land a quality starter beyond the 2nd round. It's amazing how teams get lucky on guys like Brady, Rodgers, Wilson, Dalton, etc.

1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

I believe in relationships in every endeavor in life. But your claim in that thread about Reich was baseless. Plenty of excellent QBs have been drafted without tanking.  Big Ben, Rodgers, and Wilson just to name a few.  Another baseless claim by you. 

Discuss that in the tread about it and don't pollute this thread with more of your gibberish. Ctrl c. Ctrl V

[Schmuggs]

4 minutes ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

 

Arent you the poster who believes the K. Benjamin Trade was just coincidence and not connections.  That was you!!!  Lol.  Your the dude who doesn’t believe in relationships.  Oh brother.

 

but beside that embarrassing post of your time on this board...let’s see the evidence.

Nice comment. 

 

Why do you feel the need to attempt to bring down someone because he disagree with your weak opinion?

 

I suggest you control yourself and stop with the d-bag like attitude.   

 

Lets be cool and respectful. 

 

Thanks RWNW. 

 

 

 

[boyst]

2 minutes ago, Schmuggs said:

Nice comment. 

 

Why do you feel the need to attempt to bring down someone because he disagree with your weak opinion?

 

I suggest you control yourself and stop with the d-bag like attitude.   

 

Lets be cool and respectful. 

 

Thanks RWNW. 

 

 

 

You must not know much about 26copypaste. Rev was well within reason to call that schmuck out. He needs the slapping around and deserves it.  

 

If it's any thread he didn't start from someone else's ability to originate thought on anotherr platform than he just comes in to make ill comments  

[Schmuggs]

9 minutes ago, Boyst62 said:

You must not know much about 26copypaste. Rev was well within reason to call that schmuck out. He needs the slapping around and deserves it.  

 

If it's any thread he didn't start from someone else's ability to originate thought on anotherr platform than he just comes in to make ill comments  

Is this a joke?

 

RWNWs behavior, as is yours is unacceptable and uncalled for.  

 

Be Respectful. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 24, 2018 by Schmuggs

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 minutes ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

You either have to...

1.)  Suffer by being an awful team the season before.

or

2.)  Suffer by sacrificing current players and draft capital to trade up in the draft.

(....)

Keep Tyrod until you find some better.  Well there will never be anyone in FA Better, because why would they be available if they were better.  And no rookie is going to come in immediately and you can say 100% They are better immediately.  Again stuck in a loop.

 

Let's take a look at a couple ways teams acquired QB that refute this

Seasnakes: Case study for Draft a Hidden Gem

2010/2011 7-9, 7-9 (Hasselbeck, TJax).  #7D

2012 (Wilson, drafted in 3rd) 11-5 [I would like to point out that they both brought TJax back that year as a baseline, and signed the best FA they could find]

2013 13-3, Superbowl

 

KC: Case study for "trade for that QB" - they did suffer, but weren't able to benefit from a high QB pick

2011 7-9

2012 2-14  (Cassel)

2013 11-5 (Smith, traded from 49ers for 2 2nd round picks) [the Chiefs owned the #1 pick but did not like the QB draft class]

 

Iggles: Case study "trade for, then draft #2, sign FA, I don't care, just f**kin' get one.  Get two.  Hell, get four!")

2013, 2014 10-6 (Foles, Sanchez)

2015 7-9 (Bradford, traded from StL Rams)

2016 7-9 (Wentz, traded up to pick.  Then recovered picks by trading Bradford) [also signed Chase Daniel in FA]

2017 13-3 (Wentz, Foles) [signed Foles in FA and released Daniel]

 

I don't want to deny that a high 1st round pick (after sucking the year before, in a year with a great QB draft) is the most straightforward way to get a QB.

But I think all of the above cases show that there are various strategies that will work.  You just have to try, and keep trying.

 

The Bills problem isn't that they haven't "suffered enough", it's that they haven't tried hard enough.  Our one shot was to draft a QB late 1st in a class where those owning the top picks turned up their noses, give that 2 years.  Then another one-shot to sign a sleeper FA, give that 3 years.  Rinse and repeat.

[Green Lightning]

10 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Let's take a look at a couple ways teams acquired QB that refute this

Seasnakes: Case study for Draft a Hidden Gem

2010/2011 7-9, 7-9 (Hasselbeck, TJax).  #7D

2012 (Wilson, drafted in 3rd) 11-5 [I would like to point out that they both brought TJax back that year as a baseline, and signed the best FA they could find]

2013 13-3, Superbowl

 

KC: Case study for "trade for that QB" - they did suffer, but weren't able to benefit from a high QB pick

2011 7-9

2012 2-14  (Cassel)

2013 11-5 (Smith, traded from 49ers for 2 2nd round picks) [the Chiefs owned the #1 pick but did not like the QB draft class]

 

Iggles: Case study "trade for, then draft #2, sign FA, I don't care, just f**kin' get one.  Get two.  Hell, get four!")

2013, 2014 10-6 (Foles, Sanchez)

2015 7-9 (Bradford, traded from StL Rams)

2016 7-9 (Wentz, traded up to pick.  Then recovered picks by trading Bradford) [also signed Chase Daniel in FA]

2017 13-3 (Wentz, Foles) [signed Foles in FA and released Daniel]

 

I don't want to deny that a high 1st round pick (after sucking the year before, in a year with a great QB draft) is the most straightforward way to get a QB.

But I think all of the above cases show that there are various strategies that will work.  You just have to try, and keep trying.

 

The Bills problem isn't that they haven't "suffered enough", it's that they haven't tried hard enough.  Our one shot was to draft a QB late 1st in a class where those owning the top picks turned up their noses, give that 2 years.  Then another one-shot to sign a sleeper FA, give that 3 years.  Rinse and repeat.

 

When all is said and done it's hard to refute this. It's absolutely true, the Bills just haven't tried hard enough, haven't drafted enough quarterbacks, and a passed over too many because they didn't like them only to have them pan out. They just have to do better. Let's start this year.

[RalphWilson'sNewWar]

13 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Let's take a look at a couple ways teams acquired QB that refute this

Seasnakes: Case study for Draft a Hidden Gem

2010/2011 7-9, 7-9 (Hasselbeck, TJax).  #7D

2012 (Wilson, drafted in 3rd) 11-5 [I would like to point out that they both brought TJax back that year as a baseline, and signed the best FA they could find]

2013 13-3, Superbowl

 

KC: Case study for "trade for that QB" - they did suffer, but weren't able to benefit from a high QB pick

2011 7-9

2012 2-14  (Cassel)

2013 11-5 (Smith, traded from 49ers for 2 2nd round picks) [the Chiefs owned the #1 pick but did not like the QB draft class]

 

Iggles: Case study "trade for, then draft #2, sign FA, I don't care, just f**kin' get one.  Get two.  Hell, get four!")

2013, 2014 10-6 (Foles, Sanchez)

2015 7-9 (Bradford, traded from StL Rams)

2016 7-9 (Wentz, traded up to pick.  Then recovered picks by trading Bradford) [also signed Chase Daniel in FA]

2017 13-3 (Wentz, Foles) [signed Foles in FA and released Daniel]

 

I don't want to deny that a high 1st round pick (after sucking the year before, in a year with a great QB draft) is the most straightforward way to get a QB.

But I think all of the above cases show that there are various strategies that will work.  You just have to try, and keep trying.

 

The Bills problem isn't that they haven't "suffered enough", it's that they haven't tried hard enough.  Our one shot was to draft a QB late 1st in a class where those owning the top picks turned up their noses, give that 2 years.  Then another one-shot to sign a sleeper FA, give that 3 years.  Rinse and repeat.

 

Wilson wasn’t what I would deem a TOP Prospect in that Draft.

and The Eagles gave up picks and Players which many in our fan base can’t even bring themselves to want to do.

 

i do agree though we haven’t really suffered enough,

 

 

Edited February 24, 2018 by RalphWilson'sNewWar

[K D]

what about option #3?  that is the route we have gone.  we have been bad for years but we have still failed to pull the trigger on a QB.  also, we have made big trades for other positions besides QB.  you would have to really go out of your way to be as bad as we have been over the past 20 yrs.  make up your minds!  do you want to be a bad team forever or do you want to get a QB and turn things around?  we have been stuck in limbo for far too long

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, kdiggz said:

what about option #3?  that is the route we have gone.  we have been bad for years but we have still failed to pull the trigger on a QB.  also, we have made big trades for other positions besides QB.  you would have to really go out of your way to be as bad as we have been over the past 20 yrs.  make up your minds!  do you want to be a bad team forever or do you want to get a QB and turn things around?  we have been stuck in limbo for far too long

 

How is 9-7, 8-8, 7-9, and 9-7 with one playoff appearance bad?  Mediocre granted, but certainly not bad. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

43 minutes ago, Boyst62 said:

Without completely thorough scouting and the ability to develop talent at the position it is hard to land a quality starter beyond the 2nd round. It's amazing how teams get lucky on guys like Brady, Rodgers, Wilson, Dalton, etc.

 

I think you can take it further, Boyst: without completely thorough scouting and the ability to develop talent at the position, it's hard to land a quality starter, Period.

I made the point in another thread that QB talent seldom matches draft order....#2, #1, skip the next 4, draftee from the 3rd round kind of thing.

 

I'm not sure teams "get lucky" precisely.  I think they have an eye for talent that would need development, and take their shots until they hit one.   Later rounds, odds are lower so need more" shots on goal to hit one."  Nothing stopped the Bills from drafting Wilson, Cousins, hell even Brees - nothing except lazy/poor scouting (and an apparent lack of committment to expending resources on the position)

Edited February 24, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan

[K D]

1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

How is 9-7, 8-8, 7-9, and 9-7 with one playoff appearance bad?  Mediocre granted, but certainly not bad. 

we have been over .500 only 3 times this century.  we have been 3-13, 4-12, 5-11, 6-10 many times.  we have had high draft picks and they refuse to use it on a QB.  we have never used our 1st pick on a QB in the entire history of our franchise!  gee, i wonder why we have been so bad??

[26CornerBlitz]

3 minutes ago, kdiggz said:

we have been over .500 only 3 times this century.  we have been 3-13, 4-12, 5-11, 6-10 many times.  we have had high draft picks and they refuse to use it on a QB.  we have never used our 1st pick on a QB in the entire history of our franchise!  gee, i wonder why we have been so bad??

 

This is an entirely different point from what you posted about the past four seasons, but they did use "their" 1st pick in 2013 on EJ even though it was a trade back.  Of course they have passed on several chances to select a QB in recent years including 2017.  The chance to remedy that comes in this draft. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

14 minutes ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

 

Wilson wasn’t what I would deem a TOP Prospect in that Draft.

and The Eagles gave up picks and Players which many in our fan base can’t even bring themselves to want to do.

 

i do agree though we haven’t really suffered enough,

 

I'm not sure who you agree with that we haven't really suffered enough; if it's me we don't agree. 

I don't think it's that we haven't "suffered enough", we just haven't tried hard enough or committed enough resources.

 

Yes, of course Wilson wasn't a "top prospect" because if his height.   It was said if he were 6'3" he'd have been the #1 prospect.  The point is, you can find a QB late in the 1st or the 2nd-4th rounds.  They're just rarer, so you're going to need multiple shots, and it's better to take them while you have a functional QB. 

We could have taken shots in 2011 while we had Fitz signed - Dalton, Kaepernick, Mallet.  Maybe we would have chosen Mallet.  Bad choice.

OK, try again in 2012.  Osweiler, Wilson, Foles, Cousins.

Point is, despite Nix's expressed mantra "if you wait to draft a QB until you need a QB, we're in trouble, we didn't. 

We could have passed on a bad QB class like KC did and traded for Smith, moderate expenditure, 2 2nd round picks. but again, we didn't

 

Again, the problem is not "lack of suffering", the problem is lack of effort.

 

[reddogblitz]

50 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

I believe in relationships in every endeavor in life. But your claim in that thread about Reich was baseless. Plenty of excellent QBs have been drafted without tanking.  Big Ben, Rodgers, and Wilson just to name a few.  Another baseless claim by you. 

 

Cheaps made the playoffs in 2016. They traded up one pick with us to take their man,Patrick.  We COULD have stood pat LAST year take Patrick or Watson ourselves without suffering.  For this reason I disagree without even having to go into Big Ben of Rodgers or Brees or Kurt Warner or Tony Romo or ...

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, reddogblitz said:

 

Cheaps made the playoffs in 2016. They traded up one pick with us to take their man,Patrick.  We COULD have stood pat LAST year take Patrick or Watson ourselves without suffering.  For this reason I disagree without even having to go into Big Ben of Rodgers or Brees or Kurt Warner or Tony Romo or ...

 

Good point.  Exactly what I was referring to in the last response to @kdiggz