dwight in philly Posted February 23, 2018 Posted February 23, 2018 1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said: lol, what kind of tinfoil hat response is this BS? grow up. One second of googling brought up plenty of explanations from Kaep himself. Whether you understand them or not, is up to you. damn! "nice" tinfoil hat?? is that the best you got?
hemma Posted February 23, 2018 Posted February 23, 2018 A bit earlier, I suggested moving this to Politics. Now I am thinking there should be an entirely new Forum called Russian Trolls. Any thread that degenerates into this type of BS gets automatically moved to Russian Trolls. Go there and you can practice pissing people off in prep for the upcoming mid terms.
DrDawkinstein Posted February 23, 2018 Posted February 23, 2018 Just now, buffaloboyinATL said: I don't understand what they are EACH protesting either. Some are protesting the anthem, some are protesting police brutality, some are protesting racism or racial inequality etc. That has been the problem with this "protest", it does/did not necessarily have an achievable end result in mind. I understand that it was "designed" to raise awareness, but the message got lost in the method. Many people took it as disrespect to the country and or the military, or attached their own meaning without necessarily understanding what each individual player hoped to achieve through his protest. So it is understandable that the message is lost on many... The confusion was brought in by the people who are offended by it. By not bothering to take the time to understand, and instead flying off with their hurt feelings and bringing in topics that it wasnt about. No one was protesting the flag or anthem or troops or "America". It has always been about police brutality and racial inequality therein. 2
dwight in philly Posted February 23, 2018 Posted February 23, 2018 3 minutes ago, White Linen said: C'mon nucci, you're smarter than that. I'm not saying who's right or wrong but he's baiting you into saying this - when it's really about whether it's true or not. "baiting" could you further explain your response?
DrDawkinstein Posted February 23, 2018 Posted February 23, 2018 1 minute ago, Mrbojanglezs said: me with this thread ha, you're right, good idea. im out.
YoloinOhio Posted February 23, 2018 Author Posted February 23, 2018 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Magox said: Comparing how Basketball and Football is not exactly the same. The average basketball fan most likely doesn't have the same demographic makeup as the average football fan. I would be willing to guess that the average basketball fan is much more to the left than the average football fan. I have no idea if that’s the case or not as I don’t really pay much attention (Relative to you all on the PPP board) to politics or have a strong opinion tbh. I guess I don’t know why it would be different with the demographics. Edited February 23, 2018 by YoloinOhio
dwight in philly Posted February 23, 2018 Posted February 23, 2018 1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said: The confusion was brought in by the people who are offended by it. By not bothering to take the time to understand, and instead flying off with their hurt feelings and bringing in topics that it wasnt about. No one was protesting the flag or anthem or troops or "America". It has always been about police brutality and racial inequality therein. you mean Kaep wearing pig socks?
uticaclub Posted February 23, 2018 Posted February 23, 2018 32 minutes ago, suorangefan4 said: So true. We've done this same thread a million times and each time I've replied by showing statistics that cops kill white people twice as much as they do blacks. Or that black people are 27 times more likely to attack a white people than the other way around. Or that stuff like #Killallwhitemen was an actual top trend on twitter a couple years ago. Liberals don't seem to care at all about any of that though. They're blinded by hate (which is ironic because they say that about Trump supporters). They just attack like a pack of rabid dogs when you don't see things in the same delusional way they do. Exactly, people forget Kapernick started kneeling so he wouldn't get cut. the 9ers had a team option before week 1 of the regular season and then turned down a $12M player option so we could play the victim card.
dwight in philly Posted February 23, 2018 Posted February 23, 2018 1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said: ha, you're right, good idea. im out. Typical.. safe space?
PolishDave Posted February 23, 2018 Posted February 23, 2018 1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said: The confusion was brought in by the people who are offended by it. By not bothering to take the time to understand, and instead flying off with their hurt feelings and bringing in topics that it wasnt about. No one was protesting the flag or anthem or troops or "America". It has always been about police brutality and racial inequality therein. Wait a minute...... So you're telling me people actually formed opinions without actually knowing the full story first? C'mon man. Nobody does that. Look at the assumptions made in the Jonathan Martin thread.
buffaloboyinATL Posted February 23, 2018 Posted February 23, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: The confusion was brought in by the people who are offended by it. By not bothering to take the time to understand, and instead flying off with their hurt feelings and bringing in topics that it wasnt about. No one was protesting the flag or anthem or troops or "America". It has always been about police brutality and racial inequality therein. I don't disagree with that. But it DID morph into a Trump protest at one point when he stupidly (in my opinion) thrust himself into equation. My point is just that other people attached their own meaning to the protest whether they agreed with it or not. Edited February 23, 2018 by buffaloboyinATL
Dan Posted February 23, 2018 Posted February 23, 2018 26 minutes ago, nucci said: all companies are different...yes you may get fired but you think NFL owners are going to fire 15 players right before a game? You can be replaced....not all the players can be.. I agree... Hence the owners have a problem. Same with me as a fan... We all have to put up with it.. And the charities the NFL condones... If we want to watch.. Or of the owners want to have those players on their team. Back to the OP... That's why Kim is doing it the right way, IMO. Have a conversation with the players and reslove it in some fashion together. ..not fighting against each other. Because just as the players need to be aware of the owners stance, you know the owners are getting pressure from the league regardless of their personal opinions.
White Linen Posted February 23, 2018 Posted February 23, 2018 15 minutes ago, dwight in philly said: "baiting" could you further explain your response? Everything has to be explained to you today, haha. Don't go nuts, just kidding. I know you know what they're protesting about - I think you just disagree that's it's true. I think you pretended not to know, so you could say, they're protesting about something that's not factual. That's ok, I'm just sayin'
LA Grant Posted February 23, 2018 Posted February 23, 2018 31 minutes ago, Dan said: I completely agree with you, on all points. But my point remains... If your boss said you have to behave a certain way at work, you have to do that. I can't use my company car for personal trips to the sex store? If I'm caught wearing my work shirt in a bar, I'm fired. Some other owner may not care, but mine does. I think too many people on this discussion are wrapped up in what the players are protesting. I'm saying it doesn't matter what they're protesting... They are employees and when they are wearing the company uniform, they should be expected to represent the company. Right now, in February, on their own time... Protest away! Call a news conference a day. Do what you want. But, don't do it at the office. I get that, I hear that. It's a fair point!! But I disagree for a couple reasons. —NFL players aren't working at Starbucks or an insurance company, and, I don't think they should be viewed as just bodies in a uniform. They are in a different position — they're role models, whether they like it or not, for no better reason than they're part of the #1 most popular TV show ever. The NFL encourages this by having players do scheduled community outreach and so on, which is great and lovely. So if the players do it by speaking up for things that would make a corporation squeamish to address (like, systemic police corruption/violence), then I believe that is both equal and just. In other words, the players/employees should have as much right to decide what they stand for as the company does. Now, if the players were halting the game, or interfering with the "work getting done" then I think it's maybe more of the "company time" problem. Since the protests have been entirely respectful and unobtrusive, there isn't any issue (to my mind.) —More broadly, or ideally, I don't want to give that much power to the bosses/owners/companies. If you want to use your company car to run an errand to the sex store, my take is — sure, go for it. I understand that companies want to maintain their branding (not wearing uniform to the bar example) but I also feel like, who cares? I get the company's position. I just don't respect it. Generally speaking, I think corporations have way overstepped their bounds into our lives. Most of us who work full-time work more than 40 hours per week. Many of us have worked at places where we have been expected to do other people's jobs on top of our own, to take one for the team. The reality is that we are largely at the mercy of these corporations, assuming we want food & shelter & medicine. More than ever, winning battles against corporations is incredibly difficult, because people are expendable to companies— one of the critical downsides to capitalism. Rather than address this issue, I find that many people will generally side with the company over the individual, which I think is perverse. All that should matter to the company is "is the work is getting done?" So if the football games are still being played, if the athletes are still performing on the field, my personal belief is that should be all that matters. IMO. 1
dwight in philly Posted February 23, 2018 Posted February 23, 2018 1 minute ago, White Linen said: Everything has to be explained to you today, haha. Don't go nuts, just kidding. I know you know what they're protesting about - I think you just disagree that's it's true. I think you pretended not to know, so you could say, they're protesting about something that's not factual. That's ok, I'm just sayin' Honestly , i have heard not one cogent response , other than the original premise for Kaep kneeling. IMHO, it went off the rails. otherwise
nucci Posted February 23, 2018 Posted February 23, 2018 4 minutes ago, Dan said: I agree... Hence the owners have a problem. Same with me as a fan... We all have to put up with it.. And the charities the NFL condones... If we want to watch.. Or of the owners want to have those players on their team. Back to the OP... That's why Kim is doing it the right way, IMO. Have a conversation with the players and reslove it in some fashion together. ..not fighting against each other. Because just as the players need to be aware of the owners stance, you know the owners are getting pressure from the league regardless of their personal opinions. I agree also with how Kim P is handling it . I just don't get not watching a football game because players are kneeling during the anthem. If I'm not at the game I don't listen to the anthem on TV.
BuffaloHokie13 Posted February 23, 2018 Posted February 23, 2018 20 minutes ago, PolishDave said: Wait a minute...... So you're telling me people actually formed opinions without actually knowing the full story first? C'mon man. Nobody does that. Look at the assumptions made in the Jonathan Martin thread. There is no context that makes Martin's post acceptable in any way.
White Linen Posted February 23, 2018 Posted February 23, 2018 4 minutes ago, LA Grant said: All that should matter to the company is "is the work is getting done?" So if the football games are still being played, if the athletes are still performing on the field, my personal belief is that should be all that matters. IMO. You're missing an important point though which is the actual problem from a business perspective only. The significant amount of customers didn't like it and it cost the business money. So it's much more than just performing job duties and owners being ok with it - heck they could even agree - but if it eventually effects what funds the business it has to be addressed.
Dan Posted February 23, 2018 Posted February 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, LA Grant said: I get that, I hear that. It's a fair point!! But I disagree for a couple reasons. —NFL players aren't working at Starbucks or an insurance company, and, I don't think they should be viewed as just bodies in a uniform. They are in a different position — they're role models, whether they like it or not, for no better reason than they're part of the #1 most popular TV show ever. The NFL encourages this by having players do scheduled community outreach and so on, which is great and lovely. So if the players do it by speaking up for things that would make a corporation squeamish to address (like, systemic police corruption/violence), then I believe that is both equal and just. In other words, the players/employees should have as much right to decide what they stand for as the company does. Now, if the players were halting the game, or interfering with the "work getting done" then I think it's maybe more of the "company time" problem. Since the protests have been entirely respectful and unobtrusive, there isn't any issue (to my mind.) —More broadly, or ideally, I don't want to give that much power to the bosses/owners/companies. If you want to use your company car to run an errand to the sex store, my take is — sure, go for it. I understand that companies want to maintain their branding (not wearing uniform to the bar example) but I also feel like, who cares? I get the company's position. I just don't respect it. Generally speaking, I think corporations have way overstepped their bounds into our lives. Most of us who work full-time work more than 40 hours per week. Many of us have worked at places where we have been expected to do other people's jobs on top of our own, to take one for the team. The reality is that we are largely at the mercy of these corporations, assuming we want food & shelter & medicine. More than ever, winning battles against corporations is incredibly difficult, because people are expendable to companies— one of the critical downsides to capitalism. Rather than address this issue, I find that many people will generally side with the company over the individual, which I think is perverse. All that should matter to the company is "is the work is getting done?" So if the football games are still being played, if the athletes are still performing on the field, my personal belief is that should be all that matters. IMO. Again..l'm in complete agreement. I feel exactly the same. Unfortunately, few corporations (and that's essentailly what the league is) agree with us. So...we have to shut up and do as we're told. Or go find a new job. The league is in a precarious position with the players, because they can't fire them all. But, that doesn't change the point that the players are flirting with losing their job, just as Kaep may have. Its the risk anyone takes that stands up to the man. Fortunately, he has millions to fall back on. I don't. Lol.
PolishDave Posted February 23, 2018 Posted February 23, 2018 1 minute ago, BuffaloHokie13 said: There is no context that makes Martin's post acceptable in any way. Do you know the whole story or are you making assumptions that you hope are true?
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