Pete Posted February 22, 2018 Posted February 22, 2018 Vita and Billy Price works for me. Problem is Vita might possibly go top 10. He is a freak that will shoot up boards after his combine
Buffalo_Stampede Posted February 22, 2018 Posted February 22, 2018 3 hours ago, Commonsense said: 12 million isn't even close. Spotrac projects 6M per for 4 years. He has been a failure in Carolina. I think people see the need and a cool looking gargantuan that could fill the hole but don't even know what he brings or fails to bring to the table. He will get a double digit AAV.
CommonCents Posted February 22, 2018 Posted February 22, 2018 2 minutes ago, TheTruthHurts said: He will get a double digit AAV. Harrison got 9.25 AAV just last year. Star hasn't been above average since he first came into the league. I think 10 mil is a stretch. 7 mil AAV, 18-20 guaranteed is my guess.
Royale with Cheese Posted February 22, 2018 Posted February 22, 2018 Just now, Commonsense said: Of course you want talent on the dline. Jerry Hughes is not an interior DL, Kyle probably would have played less if the Bills had more viable options for a rotation. Vea isn't going to rush the passer. It's like wasting a first rounder on Snacks Harrison. No thanks. I knew the Eagles would get mention, how did that rotation work in the SB? They got destroyed by a pretty ordinary Pats Oline and a 40 year old statue. The game has changed too much. A good QB is getting that ball out unless you have legit edge guys. You're description of Brady sounds like he's just an average QB and should be easy to sack. Brady wasn't anywhere near the league lead in sacks taken. He's one if not the greatest and has the most Super Bowl MVP's. Is this one game proof that rotations don't work or something? Trying to see where you're going with this. We were terrible against the run so someone like Vea is a need. It's why Star was valuable to McDermott in Carolina.
CommonCents Posted February 22, 2018 Posted February 22, 2018 1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said: You're description of Brady sounds like he's just an average QB and should be easy to sack. Brady wasn't anywhere near the league lead in sacks taken. He's one if not the greatest and has the most Super Bowl MVP's. Is this one game proof that rotations don't work or something? Trying to see where you're going with this. We were terrible against the run so someone like Vea is a need. It's why Star was valuable to McDermott in Carolina. Let's make it simple. I don't value a 2 down run stuffing DT, I value him even less when the coach prefers a constant rotation. I'd have a hard time justifying using a first round pick on one. Same way it makes zero sense to draft an "edge setting" DE in the first. Sure the guy is doing a job but is he impacting the game enough to use such a high pick? I think the answer is clear. We can agree to disagree.
Pete Posted February 22, 2018 Posted February 22, 2018 19 minutes ago, Commonsense said: Of course you want talent on the dline. Jerry Hughes is not an interior DL, Kyle probably would have played less if the Bills had more viable options for a rotation. Vea isn't going to rush the passer. It's like wasting a first rounder on Snacks Harrison. No thanks. I knew the Eagles would get mention, how did that rotation work in the SB? They got destroyed by a pretty ordinary Pats Oline and a 40 year old statue. The game has changed too much. A good QB is getting that ball out unless you have legit edge guys. 2014 draft were you banging on the table for Blake Bortles over Khalid Mack or Aaron Donald? IMO you always draft BPA, instead of fixating on one position. As pertaining to Vea- he collapses pockets and get's his fair share of sacks. He is very disruptive(disruptive and 2017 Bills pass rushers is mutually exclusive). Like I previously mentioned- Vea is very fast and athletic- and will shoot up draft boards after he puts on show at combine. I would be ecstatic if we landed Vita. But he just might go top 10
Royale with Cheese Posted February 22, 2018 Posted February 22, 2018 1 minute ago, Commonsense said: Let's make it simple. I don't value a 2 down run stuffing DT, I value him even less when the coach prefers a constant rotation. I'd have a hard time justifying using a first round pick on one. Same way it makes zero sense to draft an "edge setting" DE in the first. Sure the guy is doing a job but is he impacting the game enough to use such a high pick? I think the answer is clear. We can agree to disagree. I think if he consistently gives you 2nd/3rd and 8 as opposed to 2nd/3rd and 3....that's a big impact. IMO...we need a big guy in the middle and at least 1 or 2 pass rushers in the draft of FA. If it's between Hurst from Michigan or Vea....I would probably be more interested in Hurst but certainly wouldn't be upset with Vea. He would help.
CommonCents Posted February 22, 2018 Posted February 22, 2018 1 minute ago, Pete said: 2014 draft were you banging on the table for Blake Bortles over Khalid Mack or Aaron Donald? IMO you always draft BPA, instead of fixating on one position. As pertaining to Vea- he collapses pockets and get's his fair share of sacks. He is very disruptive(disruptive and 2017 Bills pass rushers is mutually exclusive). Like I previously mentioned- Vea is very fast and athletic- and will shoot up draft boards after he puts on show at combine. I would be ecstatic if we landed Vita. But he just might go top 10 Falling in love with a highlight reel. He is heading to the NFL, unless it's a clean up sack his big ass is never getting to the QB in less than 3 seconds. Mack is an Edge, and Donald is a penetrating DT with 39 sacks in 4 years. Vea isn't like either of your examples.
FeelingOnYouboty Posted February 22, 2018 Posted February 22, 2018 I'm always against giving interior DL paydays. They treat those contracts like a destination and not a continuation of what got them there. Also he's not special. Much rather invest in a young DL in the Draft in a really good DL class.
Pete Posted February 22, 2018 Posted February 22, 2018 2 minutes ago, Commonsense said: Falling in love with a highlight reel. He is heading to the NFL, unless it's a clean up sack his big ass is never getting to the QB in less than 3 seconds. Mack is an Edge, and Donald is a penetrating DT with 39 sacks in 4 years. Vea isn't like either of your examples. instead of reframing my post- first answer my question- 2014 draft were you banging on the table for Blake Bortles over Khalid Mack or Aaron Donald? My point was you always take BPA. Mack and Donald were rated higher then Bortles. And Vita is a beast. As are Mack and Donald. All 3 are game changers. My opinion is not based on highlight reel. And teams don't base picks on highlight reels. But somehow Vita might go top 10. And if you watched highlight reel, how can you not see how he can help the Bills D dramatically?
CommonCents Posted February 22, 2018 Posted February 22, 2018 1 minute ago, Pete said: instead of reframing my post- first answer my question- 2014 draft were you banging on the table for Blake Bortles over Khalid Mack or Aaron Donald? My point was you always take BPA. Mack and Donald were rated higher then Bortles. And Vita is a beast. As are Mack and Donald. All 3 are game changers. My opinion is not based on highlight reel. And teams don't base picks on highlight reels. But somehow Vita might go top 10. And if you watched highlight reel, how can you not see how he can help the Bills D dramatically? Blake Bortles is the white EJ, he was the same way in college. He has to "think" on how he wants to throw a pass. It's painful to watch. I have no idea what point you are trying to make. Ranking a QB against an edge guy and a DT that can get to the passer. Those 3 positions/skill sets are top of the list for game changers. Find me one of those. The Bills had a bunch of Jags playing on the dline it's not a compliment saying "he would help" I already said he would do a job, is that job worth a first round pick? I don't think so. The edge setting DE helped against the run right? Anyone jumping up and down to lock up Shaq long term?
JerseyBills Posted February 22, 2018 Posted February 22, 2018 5 hours ago, Rigotz said: The counter-point is ... when a player is a dominant force inside, defenses adjust and their stats take a hit. Haven't watched the Panthers much, but you'd bet he was doubled and schemed against significantly after a monster first year. Exactly. So many variables to the point the author was making.
Drunken Pygmy Goat Posted February 22, 2018 Posted February 22, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, Rigotz said: The counter-point is ... when a player is a dominant force inside, defenses adjust and their stats take a hit. Haven't watched the Panthers much, but you'd bet he was doubled and schemed against significantly after a monster first year. Yeah, I wouldn't put much stock into the numbers argument here. Star has a role, and be does it well, which allows players around him to benefit. The Panthers have been one of the least run-on defenses since he was drafted, and they faced far more runs in his rookie year than any year since, percentage wise, which has a direct correlation to his numbers. Run stops will be down by default. Offenses have adjusted how they play that defense, and clearly they think it's more wise to throw the ball against them. Star's presence alone is a big reason why. Stats are a good way to judge, but there's always variables that play a role. And in football, that is especially true. That's why I always say, "numbers never lie, but they don't always tell the whole truth". You (not you, but Rob Quinn) cannot sit here and tell me that having Star on your team wouldn't be a good thing. And using the phrase "epic mistake" is just an attention grabber to generate clicks. Edited February 22, 2018 by Drunken Pygmy Goat
Mr. WEO Posted February 22, 2018 Posted February 22, 2018 1 hour ago, Commonsense said: A rotational DT BPA at 21!? Say it ain't so! Bills drafted one at 3 a few years ago...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted February 22, 2018 Posted February 22, 2018 (edited) 43 minutes ago, Commonsense said: Harrison got 9.25 AAV just last year. Star hasn't been above average since he first came into the league. I think 10 mil is a stretch. 7 mil AAV, 18-20 guaranteed is my guess. If we can get him under $8 million you better do It and try to go multiple years at that rate. Harrison signed a couple years ago I believe. The comparable is probably Poe from last year. A little younger but similar. Poe coming off a down year got a 1 year prove it deal at $8 million. I could see that deal being the floor. Contracts are rising fast, even for DT's. I could see him signing anywhere from $8-$12 million AAV depending on the market. Top do it all DT's will get near $20 million deals, 2 down space eating DT's like Star probably will fall in that $8-$12 million range. Harrison is the cream of the crop, but someone will get more. Edited February 22, 2018 by TheTruthHurts
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