Why I would be happy with Lamar Jackson

[PolishDave]

If Beane drafted Lamar Jackson, and Lamar didn't become elite very quickly, then it is very likely he would cost McDermott his job and maybe his own job too.

 

I say that because I think the majority of Buffalo fans are tired of the "quarterback who makes more big plays with his feet than his arm" type of QB.     And Lamar Jackson is that guy.   Just watch his highlight videos.    Only way you take this guy is if you can get him late in the draft (ideally round 5 or lower).   Let him go elsewhere and tie up some other team for 2 or 3 years before he is demoted to backup and gets his coach fired.

[thebandit27]

9 hours ago, #34fan said:

 

 Unfounded?

 

After a storied high school career, Ferguson suffered early disappointment at his first stop (Tennesee)  before leaving the program.. He  went home to N.C. and began detailing cars and building aluminum fences for cash....All the while dreaming of another shot...

 

He finally got some interest from Coffeyvile Junior college in Kansas, where he wowed them with a 67.8% completion percentage and 35 TD's... Shortly thereafter he drew interest from Mike Norvell, the man who would be the new HC at Memphis...

 

2016 was Riley's first season with the Tigers, and the Tiger's first season removed from the mighty Paxton Lynch...

 

Ferguson only responded by shattering Lynch's school touchdown record, and pouring in 32 TD's via some 3,968 passing yards leading the tigers to a bowl-eligible season.

 

For the 2017 season, he would propel the Memphis program to even greater heights. -Pouring in 38 passing TD's via some 4,257 passing yards. He also broke the school record for passing yards in a single game. -Twice!

 

Ferguson finished the year averaging more passing YPG than Sam Darnold (327.5)...Memphis would finish with 10 wins on the season, and back to back bowl game appearances. -Not bad for a kid who went missing on the road less traveled, and managed to find his way back... 

 

I think you're having a very hard time following the discussion that we're having.

 

The above story is nice, and it adds some context to Ferguson's career.  It does not, however mean that he's got more experience, or even more valuable experience, playing the QB position than Lamar Jackson, which (along with your claim of his superior leadership ability) was the bone that I picked with your post.

 

I'll say again: you're welcome to your opinion on Ferguson, Jackson, and every other QB in this class.  I only took issue with a fact-based argument that was inaccurate.

 

Hopefully this clears things up for you.

[Guest K-GunJimKelly12]

12 hours ago, BuffaloBillsGospel said:

 

It's obvious you don't like Jackson, you're entitled to your opinion but you state he pads his stats in garbage time against backups, so you show one 30 second video of him throwing a pick 6 and in the video it said it was his 1st interception in 128 pass attempts. His OL was pretty bad also and he did very well, I love his game against NC State, he had constant pressure all game long and I thought he did a heck of a job hanging in the pocket and slinging it all over the field. He's Michael Vick with a stronger arm (not just my words, Mike Mayock stated the same on NFL.com) and Mike Vick went #1 overall back in 2001. I see all these top QB's gone by 17, if we want 1 of them the Bills will need to trade up imo.

You are right that I don't like Jackson as a QB.  I think he is a great athlete, seems like a great kid and does a lot of things that you need to do as a QB really well.  He just doesn't consistently throw with accuracy and as a Bills fan, I am dying for a great passing game again, we haven't had that since Bledsoe.  What I really, really would not be able to stomach, is to follow up Tyrod with a great athlete at QB, who can't hit his receivers in stride and may have a good game here or there, but is consistently around or under 200 yards passing in individual games.  I can't take the 3 years fans would and the organization would give him to try and figure it out before we are back to square one at QB.  If the Bills do draft him though, I hope he ends up being the best QB in NFL history and I have to come back here and tell everyone how wrong I was.

 

But my post wasn't really about Jackson.  My post was about how some of these advanced stats are misleading and you can't just throw a stat out there and declare it proves something about a player.  The stat that was brought up about how a the top college QB's perform against top college defenses is misleading.  I wasn't saying Jackson gets all his stats in garbage time.  The point I was trying to get across is, if you have a QB that has a great stat line against a top college defense it doesn't tell the whole story.  If Jackson struggles mightily through almost a full 3 quarters of a college football game and is down 33-7, then the opposing team puts in backups and starts running a more vanilla defense, then Jackson has a big 4th quarter, is that stat against top college defenses not skewed?  That is the point.  There are advanced stats out there that everyone seems to be taking as gospel and not really digging any deeper than what is on the surface. 

 

Also, I have been adamant about the Jackson/Vick comparison.  I have said they are the two most comparable players at QB I have ever seen.  I totally agree with that assessment and made that comparison long before I heard Mayock or anyone else say it.  I just happen to think Vick was better and honestly, I wouldn't be thrilled to have a Vick clone as the Bills QB.  He was a very good player but not a great player and with the progression of all athletes, I don't think Vick's speed edge would be the same as it was 10-15 years ago.  

Edited February 16, 2018 by K-GunJimKelly12

[BuffaloBillsGospel]

2 hours ago, K-GunJimKelly12 said:

You are right that I don't like Jackson as a QB.  I think he is a great athlete, seems like a great kid and does a lot of things that you need to do as a QB really well.  He just doesn't consistently throw with accuracy and as a Bills fan, I am dying for a great passing game again, we haven't had that since Bledsoe.  What I really, really would not be able to stomach, is to follow up Tyrod with a great athlete at QB, who can't hit his receivers in stride and may have a good game here or there, but is consistently around or under 200 yards passing in individual games.  I can't take the 3 years fans would and the organization would give him to try and figure it out before we are back to square one at QB.  If the Bills do draft him though, I hope he ends up being the best QB in NFL history and I have to come back here and tell everyone how wrong I was.

 

But my post wasn't really about Jackson.  My post was about how some of these advanced stats are misleading and you can't just throw a stat out there and declare it proves something about a player.  The stat that was brought up about how a the top college QB's perform against top college defenses is misleading.  I wasn't saying Jackson gets all his stats in garbage time.  The point I was trying to get across is, if you have a QB that has a great stat line against a top college defense it doesn't tell the whole story.  If Jackson struggles mightily through almost a full 3 quarters of a college football game and is down 33-7, then the opposing team puts in backups and starts running a more vanilla defense, then Jackson has a big 4th quarter, is that stat against top college defenses not skewed?  That is the point.  There are advanced stats out there that everyone seems to be taking as gospel and not really digging any deeper than what is on the surface. 

 

Also, I have been adamant about the Jackson/Vick comparison.  I have said they are the two most comparable players at QB I have ever seen.  I totally agree with that assessment and made that comparison long before I heard Mayock or anyone else say it.  I just happen to think Vick was better and honestly, I wouldn't be thrilled to have a Vick clone as the Bills QB.  He was a very good player but not a great player and with the progression of all athletes, I don't think Vick's speed edge would be the same as it was 10-15 years ago.  

 

I obviously misunderstood, it's been known to happen before  , I'd be equally excited with Rosen, Darnold Allen and Mayfield if we traded up but I hope the guy we stay away from is Mason Rudolph. I have no clue why people are saying he's a 1st round QB, Mayock even has him in his top 5 but his arm is nowhere near good enough to be a top 5. I know his stats are impressive for deep ball accuracy but watch his full games, James Washington is wide open many times from busted coverages and even then his noodle arm causes Washington to slow down to catch his passes, I hope the Bills stay away from him, I'll support it if they select him and hope I'm wrong of course if they do. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

On 2/15/2018 at 9:49 AM, ddaryl said:

accuracy can not be taught. You either have it or you don't/ if you have it you can refine it, but if your a college QB who couldn't complete more than 60% consistently it ain't never going to happen in the pros (See Josh Allen)

 

 

Lamar is intruiging but you're not fixing the accuracy worries

 

 

Fact: Jim Kelly was a 55% passer in college. 

[mob16151]

As I have said before(over and over and over) Jackson athletically,and from an arm talent stand point, has Steve Young,John Elway type upside. The question as with every rookie QB, is can he reach it?

[John from Riverside]

4 hours ago, Da webster guy said:

Yeah, sadly this is true.   I just don't think accuracy improves much after you've thrown 20,000 balls in your college career.  Maybe anticipation and footwork helps a little, but accuracy is either in your dna or it isn't.

Deshaun's success is making everybody rethink these athletic Tyrod types, but I just see another Teddy Bridge or Geno Smith in Jackson.

 

 

.

Teddy Bridgewater pre injury was not a bad player

2 hours ago, K-GunJimKelly12 said:

You are right that I don't like Jackson as a QB.  I think he is a great athlete, seems like a great kid and does a lot of things that you need to do as a QB really well.  He just doesn't consistently throw with accuracy and as a Bills fan, I am dying for a great passing game again, we haven't had that since Bledsoe.  What I really, really would not be able to stomach, is to follow up Tyrod with a great athlete at QB, who can't hit his receivers in stride and may have a good game here or there, but is consistently around or under 200 yards passing in individual games.  I can't take the 3 years fans would and the organization would give him to try and figure it out before we are back to square one at QB.  If the Bills do draft him though, I hope he ends up being the best QB in NFL history and I have to come back here and tell everyone how wrong I was.

 

But my post wasn't really about Jackson.  My post was about how some of these advanced stats are misleading and you can't just throw a stat out there and declare it proves something about a player.  The stat that was brought up about how a the top college QB's perform against top college defenses is misleading.  I wasn't saying Jackson gets all his stats in garbage time.  The point I was trying to get across is, if you have a QB that has a great stat line against a top college defense it doesn't tell the whole story.  If Jackson struggles mightily through almost a full 3 quarters of a college football game and is down 33-7, then the opposing team puts in backups and starts running a more vanilla defense, then Jackson has a big 4th quarter, is that stat against top college defenses not skewed?  That is the point.  There are advanced stats out there that everyone seems to be taking as gospel and not really digging any deeper than what is on the surface. 

 

Also, I have been adamant about the Jackson/Vick comparison.  I have said they are the two most comparable players at QB I have ever seen.  I totally agree with that assessment and made that comparison long before I heard Mayock or anyone else say it.  I just happen to think Vick was better and honestly, I wouldn't be thrilled to have a Vick clone as the Bills QB.  He was a very good player but not a great player and with the progression of all athletes, I don't think Vick's speed edge would be the same as it was 10-15 years ago.  

Michael Vick was a number 1 overall pick who carried his team on his shoulders from the  moment he got into the league.....got them to the playoffs....and was a extremely dynamic player

 

O the horror should we take a player like that.

[Guest K-GunJimKelly12]

11 minutes ago, John from Hemet said:

Teddy Bridgewater pre injury was not a bad player

Michael Vick was a number 1 overall pick who carried his team on his shoulders from the  moment he got into the league.....got them to the playoffs....and was a extremely dynamic player

 

O the horror should we take a player like that.

He was a career 56.2% passer.  Like I said he was a very good player but if I am investing high draft picks, or multiple high draft picks into a QB, I am shooting for something better than Vick. 

 

Also I want to see Jackson in the NFL before we all declare he is as good or better the scrambler Vick was.  Like I said before I don't think Vick would have the edge with his legs now that he had when he came into the league and I think the same for Jackson.  Teams are more capable now of slowing down a dual threat QB than they were in 2001.

Edited February 16, 2018 by K-GunJimKelly12

[#34fan]

2 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

 

  I only took issue with a fact-based argument that was inaccurate.

 

Hopefully this clears things up for you.

 

The "fact" is that Fergusson played in 3 college systems compared to Jackson's 1...  The "fact" is that he left the game, worked a CRAP job to support himself, wound up playing JC ball, and STILL emerged as a dominant D-1 passer! 

 

I don't care how many starts Jackson had in that pinball-machine offense... It does not equal Fergusson's football or life experience. 

 

Riley Fergusson leadership

 

And yes, the fact that Jackson can barely form a coherent sentence in his pressers gives me pause. -Sorry.. The kid needs public speaking courses or SOMETHING.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SouthNYfan]

1 hour ago, K-GunJimKelly12 said:

He was a career 56.2% passer.  Like I said he was a very good player but if I am investing high draft picks, or multiple high draft picks into a QB, I am shooting for something better than Vick. 

 

Also I want to see Jackson in the NFL before we all declare he is as good or better the scrambler Vick was.  Like I said before I don't think Vick would have the edge with his legs now that he had when he came into the league and I think the same for Jackson.  Teams are more capable now of slowing down a dual threat QB than they were in 2001.

 

On what basis do you come up with this statement?

 

Legit wondering what you're thinking.

 

If anything they are less equipped, as the passing game being more open/spread and the tackling rule changes would help any running QB.

 

They help a pocket qb more, but they don't hurt a scrambling QB at all, unless I'm missing something.

 

Lamar Jackson, by all accounts, seems to be Michael Vick 2.0 with a much better work ethic and head on his shoulders.

 

I am not saying "omg trade the farm take him #1"

I'm just saying that if he is there when we pick, he's worth considering.

 

[John from Riverside]

2 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

On what basis do you come up with this statement?

 

Legit wondering what you're thinking.

 

If anything they are less equipped, as the passing game being more open/spread and the tackling rule changes would help any running QB.

 

They help a pocket qb more, but they don't hurt a scrambling QB at all, unless I'm missing something.

 

Lamar Jackson, by all accounts, seems to be Michael Vick 2.0 with a much better work ethic and head on his shoulders.

 

I am not saying "omg trade the farm take him #1"

I'm just saying that if he is there when we pick, he's worth considering.

 

To me it really depends on the asking price for the top 3 QBs....if it is insane then trading up may also be insane.

 

you could take Lamar Jackson...AND get that DT to shore up our down D line which is sorely needed with those first two picks.....then you still have the additional picks to get other quality players in those first 3 rounds that you would have to give up in a trade up.

[Chicken Boo]

Who here honestly thinks that Beane and McDermott are going to stake their jobs on Lamar Jackson developing and leading this team? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Exactly.

[John from Riverside]

Just now, Chicken Boo said:

Who here honestly thinks that Beane and McDermott are going to stake their jobs on Lamar Jackson developing and leading this team? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Exactly.

Who here thinks they might weigh in that they might get a difference making defensive tackle with one of those 1st round picks.....and look at it from a holistic point of view.....

 

Exactly

[Alphadawg7]

I posted this same thread essentially a while back where I made my case for Lamar.  

 

Facts:

1. Bills fans who hate TT will make a lazy. inaccurate assessment of Lamar because he is also lethal with his legs too.
2. Lamar is a better passer than he is given credit for...see #1 above for why.

Lamar could go in the top 10 if he shows great with combine and workouts.  Watson's early success certainly helps his case too.  Honestly, I think the Cardinals would take him before he would fall to us.  Said this multiple threads now, Arians has raved about Lamar and thinks he is the best QB in the draft and says he is special.  Arians wasn't studying these prospects alone while in AZ, so that opinion came while he was a coach there and looking at the draft, its quite possible the Cardinals share that optimistic outlook on him.  If Cardinals don't land Cousins, then I think that is where I would mock Lamar going right now unless he underwhelms between now and the draft.  

 

I would honestly be thrilled if the Bills landed Rosen, Darnold, Baker, or Lamar.  I am not very high on Allen or Mason, although I wouldn't hate taking either of them if they fell to us, I just much prefer one of the other 4, especially if Bills traded up to get any of them.  

 

If I had to choose though between 2 firsts and additional valuable picks say in the 2nd or 3rd to get Rosen or Darnold...or stay put at 21 and keep those other picks for other needs and get Lamar, I would slightly lean towards Lamar (based on TODAY only as combine, workouts, etc haven't happened yet) and keeping the picks.  Again, would still be excited to land Rosen, Darnold, or Baker too.

 

That being said, I still prefer to sign Cousins so we can use all our picks to build the roster.  

[DE Bills Fan]

NO NO and NO!!! Just Tyrod Taylor version 2. Great athlete, but terrible accuracy and cannot read defenses. Will also wind up getting hurt with all of his running. Avoid this guy like the plague.................

32 minutes ago, John from Hemet said:

Who here thinks they might weigh in that they might get a difference making defensive tackle with one of those 1st round picks.....and look at it from a holistic point of view.....

 

Exactly

Exactly (ha-ha). Thought the very same thing. No way they would do thast....

56 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

On what basis do you come up with this statement?

 

Legit wondering what you're thinking.

 

If anything they are less equipped, as the passing game being more open/spread and the tackling rule changes would help any running QB.

 

They help a pocket qb more, but they don't hurt a scrambling QB at all, unless I'm missing something.

 

Lamar Jackson, by all accounts, seems to be Michael Vick 2.0 with a much better work ethic and head on his shoulders.

 

I am not saying "omg trade the farm take him #1"

I'm just saying that if he is there when we pick, he's worth considering.

 

No he's not!!!

[Guest K-GunJimKelly12]

59 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

On what basis do you come up with this statement?

 

Legit wondering what you're thinking.

 

If anything they are less equipped, as the passing game being more open/spread and the tackling rule changes would help any running QB.

 

They help a pocket qb more, but they don't hurt a scrambling QB at all, unless I'm missing something.

 

Lamar Jackson, by all accounts, seems to be Michael Vick 2.0 with a much better work ethic and head on his shoulders.

 

I am not saying "omg trade the farm take him #1"

I'm just saying that if he is there when we pick, he's worth considering.

 

I have done zero research to back this up, but with the transition to faster, coverage linebackers and safeties nearly the entire league has taken on over the last decade or so, I feel makes defenses more equipped to handle dual threat QB's. 

Edited February 16, 2018 by K-GunJimKelly12

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

I would take Lamar Jackson with our 2nd rd pick.

[Guest K-GunJimKelly12]

2 minutes ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

I would take Lamar Jackson with our 2nd rd pick.

I would have no problem with the Bills doing that but he isn't going to be there.

[John from Riverside]

36 minutes ago, DE Bills Fan said:

NO NO and NO!!! Just Tyrod Taylor version 2. Great athlete, but terrible accuracy and cannot read defenses. Will also wind up getting hurt with all of his running. Avoid this guy like the plague.................

Exactly (ha-ha). Thought the very same thing. No way they would do thast....

No he's not!!!

Based on what sir?

[SouthNYfan]

23 minutes ago, John from Hemet said:

Based on what sir?

 

Based on him being lazy and assuming they are identical because they are black and run

1 hour ago, DE Bills Fan said:

NO NO and NO!!! Just Tyrod Taylor version 2. Great athlete, but terrible accuracy and cannot read defenses. Will also wind up getting hurt with all of his running. Avoid this guy like the plague.................

Exactly (ha-ha). Thought the very same thing. No way they would do thast....

No he's not!!!

 Zero idea what you are talking about

 

You can say you don't want an athletic, running QB

Tyrod wasn't even 1/5 the prospect Lamar is

 

58 minutes ago, K-GunJimKelly12 said:

I have done zero research to back this up, but with the transition to faster, coverage linebackers and safeties nearly the entire league has taken on over the last decade or so, I feel makes defenses more equipped to handle dual threat QB's. 

 

That's a fair assessment

I didn't think of that

 

I would love to see some actual #s regarding this though, to see which side is more accurate