Trade up or bust

[PolishDave]

58 minutes ago, buffalobloodfloridahome said:

I will say I think the ceiling is higher on Darnold than Peterman. The jury is still out on both. Darnold has a stronger arm. I'm not sure what Peterman had anything to do with this.

 

You said Darnold is a turnover machine.   I instantly thought of Peterman.  

[ColoradoBills]

Matt Ryan is on his last year of a 5 year contract.

His next contract will be for 30 millionish a year.

It will be more than Cousins.

[BillsFan130]

4 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

I don't understand.

Since becoming a starter in 2015, Cousins' and Ryan's production numbers are incredibly similar (and Cousins doesn't have Julio Jones or a run game). 0.1% difference in Completion %, 10 YPG difference, and Kirk has accounted for 15 more TDs and 2 more Turnovers than Matt Ryan in those 3 years. I think Cousins has more game winning drives in that span too.

 

Cousins is the king of fantasy football.

 

He will throw 3 tds and then throw an interception in the 4th quarter when the game is on the line.

 

I get wins and losses aren’t everything to measure a QB, but what is Cousins career wins and loss record? I’m guessing .500 at best?

 

No playoff wins either and only 1 playoff game .

 

Ryan has won an MVP and has been to a super bowl. Should have won the SB if his coaches and defence didn’t crap the bed.

 

They aren’t comparable QBs in my opinion. Maybe in fantasy but that’s it

[The_Dude]

13 hours ago, QBorBust2018 said:

No excuse for passing on Mahomes & Watson last year. It’s always been “next year”, for the last 20 years. Obviously the most important position. Will the incompetent bills fail to get their guy after acquiring an extra first round pick ?

 

Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield or bust !

 

Ill just have to start watching the WNBA after the bills fail to secure one of these guys and miss playoffs next year. 

 

Please give me a reason to buy tickets this year. 

 

Go bills !

 

I’m 33. If the Bills !@#$ this up I’m done. I’m done watching **** football. 

[SoCal Deek]

17 minutes ago, billsfan11 said:

Oh ok so you’re suggesting draft a rookie and sign cousins?

 

I would personally do one or the other.

 

Ideally I would love for the Bills to go all in and try to get Rosen or Allen

Yes, that's exactly what I'm suggesting.  If the Rookie is ready in a year or two, (like the Chiefs think with Mahomes) you unload Cousins on the next team that's in need in 2020.  If the Rookie isn't ready, no harm done.  If Cousins turns out to be the real deal....then it doesn't matter that the Rookie is sitting there, and you probably have an opportunity to trade him.

[BuffaloHokie13]

1 minute ago, billsfan11 said:

Cousins is the king of fantasy football.

 

He will throw 3 tds and then throw an interception in the 4th quarter when the game is on the line.

 

I get wins and losses aren’t everything to measure a QB, but what is Cousins career wins and loss record? I’m guessing .500 at best?

 

No playoff wins either and only 1 playoff game .

 

Ryan has won an MVP and has been to a super bowl. Should have won the SB if his coaches and defence didn’t crap the bed.

 

They aren’t comparable QBs in my opinion. Maybe in fantasy but that’s it

W/L isn't on just the QB, but I'll entertain regardless.

 

His record since becoming the full time starter is 24-23-1. For someone who 'throws an interception in the 4th quarter when the game is on the line' he has 7 4th Quarter Comebacks and 11 Game Winning Drives since 2015.

 

In 'his' playoff loss he was 29/46 (63%) for 329 yards, 1 TD and 0 INT, and he had a Rushing TD.

 

Matt Ryan and Kirk Cousins are incredibly comparable NFL QBs. One just happens to be on a better team.

[Logic]

5 minutes ago, The_Dude said:

 

I’m 33. If the Bills !@#$ this up I’m done. I’m done watching **** football. 

I agree with the Dude on this one: Best QB draft in recent memory, and Bills have two 1sts and two 2nds and a screaming need for a quarterback.

It's not rocket science. We shouldn't overpay for a free agent, we shouldn't get cute, we should just use our draft capital to move up and take the QB we like best. I don't want to hear "fill other holes and wait 'til next year!". No. We've been filling holes for years, but because we haven't had a good QB, we've been spinning our wheels. 

Epic QB class, lots of draft capital, big need...don't mess this up, don't overthink it. Trade up, get your guy, and let's roll.

[The_Dude]

2 minutes ago, Logic said:

I agree with the Dude on this one: Best QB draft in recent memory, and Bills have two 1sts and two 2nds and a screaming need for a quarterback.

It's not rocket science. We shouldn't overpay for a free agent, we shouldn't get cute, we should just use our draft capital to move up and take the QB we like best. I don't want to hear "fill other holes and wait 'til next year!". No. We've been filling holes for years, but because we haven't had a good QB, we've been spinning our wheels. 

Epic QB class, lots of draft capital, big need...don't mess this up, don't overthink it. Trade up, get your guy, and let's roll.

 

...I’ll say this though. If we end up with Foles I’ll be fine. If we end up with Foles the most likely reason is because the Giants, Colts and Browns wouldn’t sell. I won’t hold that against McBeane but I will say that’s why I was raging last year when they passed on Mahomes. 

 

“Buffalo, do you want to draft a franchise QB?”

 

”Naw, we’ll pass and take a CB!”

???????

[BillsFan130]

1 minute ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

W/L isn't on just the QB, but I'll entertain regardless.

 

His record since becoming the full time starter is 24-23-1. For someone who 'throws an interception in the 4th quarter when the game is on the line' he has 7 4th Quarter Comebacks and 11 Game Winning Drives since 2015.

 

In 'his' playoff loss he was 29/46 (63%) for 329 yards, 1 TD and 0 INT, and he had a Rushing TD.

 

Matt Ryan and Kirk Cousins are incredibly comparable NFL QBs. One just happens to be on a better team.

I appreciate you taking the time to check the stats.

 

But I still disagree with your last line . Cousins has been in some very friendly QB systems and has had tons of playmakers as well.

 

Just look at Mcvay this year.

 

Cousins had him for what was it, 2 or 3 years?

 

You can argue Goff (a qb who was awful before Mcvay came) had more success with Mcvay in 1 year than Cousins had with Mcvay in those 2 to 3 years.

 

Now I’m not saying cousins sucks as I think he’s an above average QB.

 

But no way I can put him top 10 where I have Matt Ryan.

 

Cousins has had some excellent coaches and players around him on both sides of the ball and really hasn’t accomplished anything outside of good fantasy numbers so far in his career.

 

 

[bigK14094]

Not taking Watson was a mistake based on his performance this year with the Texans.  Mahones....not so sure yet about him.   The only thing we know now about Mahones that we didn't know a year ago is that KC is willing to stake their future on him and let Alex Smith go.  The game Mahones played this year was strictly an exhibition job that didn't count in the season outcome. (unfortunately familiar with that type of g ame as  Bills fan)  I don't favor moving up....to many holes and needs....take a shot a Mason Rudolph at #21 says me. (or Lamar Jackson)  The bills aren't a QB away...they are a dozen starters away from making the playoffs again.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

4 hours ago, Buffalo30 said:

I'm all for trading up but I don't think we can expect all of our holes to be patched up in FA or with whatever picks are left from moving up.  There will certainly be holes left and I'm okay with that.  The rebuilding continues with a big step of getting the franchise QB.  

 

We did pretty good with the players we had last year, we don't have fill them all this year.

 

 

[BuffaloHokie13]

2 minutes ago, billsfan11 said:

I appreciate you taking the time to check the stats.

 

But I still disagree with your last line . Cousins has been in some very friendly QB systems and has had tons of playmakers as well.

 

Just look at Mcvay this year.

 

Cousins had him for what was it, 2 or 3 years?

 

You can argue Goff (a qb who was awful before Mcvay came) had more success with Mcvay in 1 year than Cousins had with Mcvay in those 2 to 3 years.

 

Now I’m not saying cousins sucks as I think he’s an above average QB.

 

But no way I can put him top 10 where I have Matt Ryan.

 

Cousins has had some excellent coaches and players around him on both sides of the ball and really hasn’t accomplished anything outside of good fantasy numbers so far in his career.

He had McVay for 2, just like Matt Ryan had Kyle Shanahan for 2. Washington has never had the playmakers that the Falcons do.

[SoTier]

10 hours ago, N.Y. Orangeman said:

The logic of this continues to escape me, as we've done this exact same thing for 20+ years.   Sure, let's reload on our 7-9 or 9-7 roster in order to stay at 7-9 or 9-7.  The good organizations reload and/or rebuild around a QB and fill in with lower round finds.

 

Actually that NOT what the Bills have done for 20+ years.   They NEVER "reloaded" but rather shuffled deck chairs on the Titanic by continuously drafting RBs, DBs, and WRs to replace the good ones they let walk away.  They were more interested in eeking out the last $ of profit on the bottom line than in winning football games.  That's why they had a 17 year playoff drought, not because they didn't draft QBs in the first round, because, of course, they traded a first round pick for a franchise QB in 2002 and then drafted 2 first rounders.

 

They did EXACTLY what you want (trade up) in 2004 to take JP Losman.   They also selected EJ Manuel in the first round in 2013.  Both busted.  Trading up for Losman cost them a shot at Aaron Rodgers the next year.  Taking Manuel precluded them taking Bridgewater in 2014 because when a team drafts a first round QB, they're generally committed to him for 4 years unless he's an outright bust like Manziel.

 

No player in the draft comes with a guarantee, and that's especially true of QBs. 

 

7 hours ago, Bills365 said:

it is odd that we would pass on Watson and mahomes considering they were both on the board and then only try to trade the pick we received for the trade and a boatload of others to try to move up for another unproven? we need a qb of the future and its been long overdue for over a decade I just don't get why we didn't take are shot last year.

 

It's not odd at all.  My guess is that they didn't think they were going to make NFL QBs.  Taking a QB in the first round just to placate fans gets you JP Losman and EJ Manuel.  Losman might have been around in the 2nd, and if he wasn't no great loss.  The Bills would have been much better off using the 2nd rounder they traded to Dallas on Matt Schaub, who was a decent starter for several years in Houston.  Since none of the QBs in 2013 were worth crap, passing on Manuel would have been a positive thing.

 

20 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

Yes, more than us agreeing I believe Beane and McDermott are not gambling anything more than our 2-1st's on a QB.

Our 2 #1's get us to about 10.

 

Tampa had Winston #1 overall.  His 3 year combined record is 20-28.

Titans with Mariota is 21-27.  I would also argue that the Titans 9-7 record would be less if the Colts and Texans had a QB for the year.

Colts with Luck at QB probably would not of loss 2 games to the Titans.

 

I say this only to point out that the best 2 QBs in the 2015 draft has not helped their teams turn around into some perennial winner.

The draft is a gamble and I don't think OBD is going to go "all in".

 

Too many Bills fans forget that the draft is a gamble.  They've convinced themselves that all the Bills problems stem from not drafting first round QBs when in reality not drafting the right first round QB was simply a symptom of the numerous problems that beset this franchise over the last two decades of Ralph Wilson's ownership and into the first years of the Pegulas' ownership.  I'm much more hopeful that the new regime is committed to winning than I was even at this time last year. I don't think that McDermott will take a QB that he doesn't like just to take one.  He wants to win too much, and I think he's the one who has control of the personnel. 

19 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Yes, that's exactly what I'm suggesting.  If the Rookie is ready in a year or two, (like the Chiefs think with Mahomes) you unload Cousins on the next team that's in need in 2020.  If the Rookie isn't ready, no harm done.  If Cousins turns out to be the real deal....then it doesn't matter that the Rookie is sitting there, and you probably have an opportunity to trade him.

 

If the Bills sign Cousins, there will be no rookie first round QB in 2018 because he's the guy who will be their franchise guy going forward for 4 or 5 years or whatever.

[BillsMafia13]

5 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

But this is about trading up and no one has ever thought of it as an idea to get the Franchise QB we'd all like to see in Buffalo. 

Hey great point, guess you dont rack up 70,000 posts without some frivolous points like that

[26CornerBlitz]

3 minutes ago, BillsMafia13 said:

Hey great point, guess you dont rack up 70,000 posts without some frivolous points like that

 

Time to have a Mafia sit down with you.

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

To me, I either want them to trade up to get THE qb they want most, or don’t even bother drafting one early. I’m tired of whatever scraps are left. Either go up and get the actual guy you want A#1..or find a vet.

[ColoradoBills]

4 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Actually that NOT what the Bills have done for 20+ years.   They NEVER "reloaded" but rather shuffled deck chairs on the Titanic by continuously drafting RBs, DBs, and WRs to replace the good ones they let walk away.  They were more interested in eeking out the last $ of profit on the bottom line than in winning football games.  That's why they had a 17 year playoff drought, not because they didn't draft QBs in the first round, because, of course, they traded a first round pick for a franchise QB in 2002 and then drafted 2 first rounders.

 

They did EXACTLY what you want (trade up) in 2004 to take JP Losman.   They also selected EJ Manuel in the first round in 2013.  Both busted.  Trading up for Losman cost them a shot at Aaron Rodgers the next year.  Taking Manuel precluded them taking Bridgewater in 2014 because when a team drafts a first round QB, they're generally committed to him for 4 years unless he's an outright bust like Manziel.

 

No player in the draft comes with a guarantee, and that's especially true of QBs. 

 

 

It's not odd at all.  My guess is that they didn't think they were going to make NFL QBs.  Taking a QB in the first round just to placate fans gets you JP Losman and EJ Manuel.  Losman might have been around in the 2nd, and if he wasn't no great loss.  The Bills would have been much better off using the 2nd rounder they traded to Dallas on Matt Schaub, who was a decent starter for several years in Houston.  Since none of the QBs in 2013 were worth crap, passing on Manuel would have been a positive thing.

 

 

Too many Bills fans forget that the draft is a gamble.  They've convinced themselves that all the Bills problems stem from not drafting first round QBs when in reality not drafting the right first round QB was simply a symptom of the numerous problems that beset this franchise over the last two decades of Ralph Wilson's ownership and into the first years of the Pegulas' ownership.  I'm much more hopeful that the new regime is committed to winning than I was even at this time last year. I don't think that McDermott will take a QB that he doesn't like just to take one.  He wants to win too much, and I think he's the one who has control of the personnel. 

 

All great points.

Building a team (the way I see Beane and McDermott want to build one) is methodical.  They don't strike me as big risk takers.

If they see a QB they think is an "upgrade" they will pursue it, but not to the detriment of the rest of their plan.

 

I for one am so interested in this offseason because we will see what they are made of and how they think!

 

 

[BillsFan130]

1 hour ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

He had McVay for 2, just like Matt Ryan had Kyle Shanahan for 2. Washington has never had the playmakers that the Falcons do.

We’ll just have to agree to disagree on this topic,all good

[Seasons1992]

14 hours ago, Seanbillsfan2206 said:

There is no reason to ever watch the WNBA. Ever

 

Actually.......gamblers LOVE watching and getting action on the WNBA because it's SO predictable in terms of the spread and over/unders.

[RochesterRob]

1 hour ago, SoTier said:

 

Actually that NOT what the Bills have done for 20+ years.   They NEVER "reloaded" but rather shuffled deck chairs on the Titanic by continuously drafting RBs, DBs, and WRs to replace the good ones they let walk away.  They were more interested in eeking out the last $ of profit on the bottom line than in winning football games.  That's why they had a 17 year playoff drought, not because they didn't draft QBs in the first round, because, of course, they traded a first round pick for a franchise QB in 2002 and then drafted 2 first rounders.

 

They did EXACTLY what you want (trade up) in 2004 to take JP Losman.   They also selected EJ Manuel in the first round in 2013.  Both busted.  Trading up for Losman cost them a shot at Aaron Rodgers the next year.  Taking Manuel precluded them taking Bridgewater in 2014 because when a team drafts a first round QB, they're generally committed to him for 4 years unless he's an outright bust like Manziel.

 

No player in the draft comes with a guarantee, and that's especially true of QBs. 

 

 

It's not odd at all.  My guess is that they didn't think they were going to make NFL QBs.  Taking a QB in the first round just to placate fans gets you JP Losman and EJ Manuel.  Losman might have been around in the 2nd, and if he wasn't no great loss.  The Bills would have been much better off using the 2nd rounder they traded to Dallas on Matt Schaub, who was a decent starter for several years in Houston.  Since none of the QBs in 2013 were worth crap, passing on Manuel would have been a positive thing.

 

 

Too many Bills fans forget that the draft is a gamble.  They've convinced themselves that all the Bills problems stem from not drafting first round QBs when in reality not drafting the right first round QB was simply a symptom of the numerous problems that beset this franchise over the last two decades of Ralph Wilson's ownership and into the first years of the Pegulas' ownership.  I'm much more hopeful that the new regime is committed to winning than I was even at this time last year. I don't think that McDermott will take a QB that he doesn't like just to take one.  He wants to win too much, and I think he's the one who has control of the personnel. 

 

If the Bills sign Cousins, there will be no rookie first round QB in 2018 because he's the guy who will be their franchise guy going forward for 4 or 5 years or whatever.

  I suspect that many will find it painful to face what you have pointed out.  What if by the metric that Beane and McDermott are using that nobody grades above the 21st pick and 4 QB's are off the board when we do choose ?  Despite what is said here I doubt that many believe the Bills used a satisfactory metric if the chosen QB of each board member is not selected.  We will truly know that the current regime is incapable of building a team if they take a QB to satisfy a vocal but tiny minority here.