FeelingOnYouboty Posted February 15, 2018 Posted February 15, 2018 51 minutes ago, Gordio said: Thank you. How could anybody say this kid has not been productive. Watch the film, the kid has plenty of arm strength. If he is there at #21 I honestly hope the Bills run to the podium with his name on the card. I don't know how that guy said he doesn't have great numbers. He has incredible numbers for a couple years now. He does play in an inflated system and he was surrounded with two NFL WR's and a future 1st RD RB. Rudolph is a marginal talent. He's got great size, three years of starting experience and does some good things but he's a one read guy. He'll never be an elite QB. Do we really want to spend a high pick on that? 1
DCOrange Posted February 15, 2018 Posted February 15, 2018 3 hours ago, Domdab99 said: Some points: The only QBs worth moving up for are Rosen and Mayfield. They are so far ahead of the others in every metric, that I'm shocked when I hear Darnold might be going No. 1. This is 100% true about Mayfield; not so sure that's the case with Rosen though. He certainly doesn't look bad in terms of the metrics, but he's basically in the same neighborhood as the non-Mayfield and non-Josh Allen (in a bad way) prospects. See this Fanpost I threw together at BuffaloRumblings: https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2017/12/14/16776108/more-ncaa-qb-charts If you look at the rating numbers, Lamar and Rudolph look better than Rosen. The adjusted completion percentage metrics are where Rosen shines more. But nobody is remotely close to Mayfield.
K D Posted February 15, 2018 Posted February 15, 2018 I had a thought after reading this yesterday. The Browns are taking either Darnold or Mayfield. I think if they take Mayfield then the player the Bills might really want is Darnold. He fits the mold of a McBeane player more. I'm personally not high on him but I'm not the one picking. Anyhow, Bills put the word out they want Rosen and that makes someone like the Jets need to trade up if they want him. Meanwhile Darnold falls farther down, no QB needy teams 3-14 assuming Broncos sign Cousins. There's a better chance that someone picking in that range will want our 21 and 22 to allow us to trade up. It's more cost effective and we won't have to trade away our entire draft to get our guy. Just a thought!
Gugny Posted February 15, 2018 Posted February 15, 2018 Not that anyone's race has ANYTHING to do with being a successful NFL QB (or successful at anything, for that matter), but has there ever been an elite Jewish NFL QB? NOTE: This isn't a race discussion. I just can't think of any and I'm wondering if anyone knows of any. I like Rosen and I do think he'll be successful in the NFL. But would he be the first successful Jewish QB in NFL history?
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 15, 2018 Posted February 15, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, McBean said: Sign Bradford to a short term deal and trade the house for Rosen. Where does all the Bradford love come from? Please explain why you think this is a good idea: -what role do you expect Bradford to fill on the team? -what in his playing history leads you to believe he is a good choice to fill this role? 9 minutes ago, Gugny said: Not that anyone's race has ANYTHING to do with being a successful NFL QB (or successful at anything, for that matter), but has there ever been an elite Jewish NFL QB? NOTE: This isn't a race discussion. I just can't think of any and I'm wondering if anyone knows of any. I like Rosen and I do think he'll be successful in the NFL. But would he be the first successful Jewish QB in NFL history? That's good, because last I checked "Jewish" was not a race, and historically, attempting to cast "religion" as a race has foreshadowed bad things. Very bad things. Edited February 15, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan 1
McBean Posted February 15, 2018 Posted February 15, 2018 1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Where does all the Bradford love come from? Please explain why you think this is a good idea: -what role do you expect Bradford to fill on the team? -what in his playing history leads you to believe he is a good choice to fill this role? Say it with me...Bridge...QB. I wouldn’t want Rosen getting thrown in Day 1 under center.
FeelingOnYouboty Posted February 15, 2018 Posted February 15, 2018 9 hours ago, Nihilarian said: While this is all true, it was a rubber matt that ended Kevin Kolb's NFL career. NFL players are bigger, stronger and more importantly much, much faster. It's not just the concussions that have me worried about Allen as much as his recurring shoulder injuries and his struggles with free rushers. Makes risky decisions under pressure, throws off his back foot when hurried. Makes dangerous throwaways while being sacked instead of holding the ball. When he takes hits he is prone to get knocked out of a game. Other than all that a really good college football QB. My personal opinion is that the Bills have far too many holes on the roster to give up so much for a QB with serious questions. I prefer the Bills back up the Brinks truck for Cousins and spend all those draft picks on filling those holes. You'd rather make an average QB the highest paid player in league history than draft a rookie QB who will be cheap and is already better than Cousins. This is not how you build a team.
DCOrange Posted February 15, 2018 Posted February 15, 2018 2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Where does all the Bradford love come from? Please explain why you think this is a good idea: -what role do you expect Bradford to fill on the team? -what in his playing history leads you to believe he is a good choice to fill this role? He's a good QB. He's just had a horrible injury history. If the injuries drive his price down a lot, he makes a lot of sense as a guy that can start while you develop your rookie. If that rookie is Rosen, I don't really see the point though; Rosen should be ready to start immediately.
Chuck Wagon Posted February 15, 2018 Posted February 15, 2018 10 minutes ago, McBean said: Say it with me...Bridge...QB. I wouldn’t want Rosen getting thrown in Day 1 under center. Bradford is going to be too expensive. If we pay the price to get Rosen, I'd much rather go with a much cheaper guy like bringing Fitz back and use the rest of our cap resources to put the best possible team around Rosen (or Darnold, or yuck Mayfield).
DasNootz Posted February 15, 2018 Posted February 15, 2018 There's a difference between Jim Kelly and Josh Rosen for those that seem to equate the two after Rosen shunned going to Cleveland. Jim had a passion for the game and the talent. The area and the fans can win him over eventually, but he doesn't have the passion and desire to be the very best there are way too many opportunities for long term failure.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 15, 2018 Posted February 15, 2018 3 minutes ago, McBean said: Say it with me...Bridge...QB. I wouldn’t want Rosen getting thrown in Day 1 under center. You didn't answer the question: -what role do you expect Bradford to fill on the team? (don't say "Bridge QB", what do you mean by that? Guy who starts 3 games? Plays a season? Plays 2?) -what in his playing history leads you to believe he is a good choice to fill this role?
offyourocker Posted February 15, 2018 Posted February 15, 2018 I don’t to mortgage 5 high pics for one guy that might or might not make it
BuffaloHokie13 Posted February 15, 2018 Posted February 15, 2018 2 minutes ago, DasNootz said: There's a difference between Jim Kelly and Josh Rosen for those that seem to equate the two after Rosen shunned going to Cleveland. Jim had a passion for the game and the talent. The area and the fans can win him over eventually, but he doesn't have the passion and desire to be the very best there are way too many opportunities for long term failure. That's an awfully definitive statement. How long have you know Rosen?
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 15, 2018 Posted February 15, 2018 (edited) 12 minutes ago, DCOrange said: He's a good QB. He's just had a horrible injury history. If the injuries drive his price down a lot, he makes a lot of sense as a guy that can start while you develop your rookie. If that rookie is Rosen, I don't really see the point though; Rosen should be ready to start immediately. Let me see if I can parse this: -The role you expect Bradford to fill on the team is to start regularly for a variable (but crucial) period of time - IOW, critical that he be available -The reason you believe Bradford to be a good choice to fill this role is that he has a "horrible injury history" Makes sense. 1 hour ago, BigBuff423 said: The bolded statement demonstrates to me, you haven't really done your homework. Here's a link to help: https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/mason-rudolph-1.html The legit concern is (Mason Rudolph) holding the ball when he gets pushed in the pocket and moves out of the pocket to escape, as I don't like how he holds the ball and it can lead to fumbles, which is reckless. But, IF that's my only real concern, I note it, indicate we need to work on it, and take him at 21 and don't look back. Although, according to the abovelinked article at Buffalo Rumblings, he does have the shortest overall time to throw. It sounds like your concern is holding the ball in specific situations? One concern I have with both Rudolph and Rosen is limited mobility. I don't necessarily want a QB who can run, but to succeed at the NFL level without getting hurt a QB does have to be able to sense pressure in the pocket and move around (sidestep, step up) to avoid it. Edited February 15, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan 1
DCOrange Posted February 15, 2018 Posted February 15, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Let me see if I can parse this: -The role you expect Bradford to fill on the team is to start regularly for a variable (but crucial) period of time - IOW, critical that he be available -The reason you believe Bradford to be a good choice to fill this role is that he has a "horrible injury history" Obviously the injury history is the risk involved. Signing Bradford and carrying him as the only other QB on the roster means you have to be either: 1. Comfortable with Bradford's current health and think the past injuries were flukes 2. Comfortable with your rookie potentially being thrown to the wolves at any moment The injury history is the only reason Bradford won't be getting $20 million per year though. Outside of Cousins, he's probably the only immediate upgrade over Tyrod that will be available this offseason (while he's healthy that is). Edit: If the Bills are comfortable with being a bad team in 2019, I wouldn't bother with Bradford. And if the Bills know they don't want their rookie to play for a year, I wouldn't bother with him. But if Bradford is coming for $5-10 million, I'd much rather have him than a guy like Derek Anderson or Peterman or something that you know will be bad. At that point, I think the price is worth the potential reward. Maybe Buffalo doesn't care about competing next season and they simply want someone that can take the hits while they develop their rookie; I don't know. But like I said, Bradford is one of the very few options that would legitimately improve the Bills in the short-term. Edited February 15, 2018 by DCOrange
MrEpsYtown Posted February 15, 2018 Posted February 15, 2018 6 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said: That's an awfully definitive statement. How long have you know Rosen? Agreed! And, I've mentioned this in another thread but his left tackle for two years (LT and QB relationship can be a close one) Conor McDermott is on our roster and loves Rosen from everything I've read. How Conor feels about Rosen as a friend and teammate should be, at least, a part of the evaluation of Rosen. While there are other UCLA players on rosters in the NFL, having a guy like Conor McDermott on our roster gives us some very special insight into how teammates feel about Rosen and what type of leader and person he is. Dude was in the offensive huddle with him for two years. This fact should not be overlooked.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 15, 2018 Posted February 15, 2018 Just now, DCOrange said: Obviously the injury history is the risk involved. Signing Bradford and carrying him as the only other QB on the roster means you have to be either: 1. Comfortable with Bradford's current health and think the past injuries were flukes 2. Comfortable with your rookie potentially being thrown to the wolves at any moment The injury history is the only reason Bradford won't be getting $20 million per year though. Outside of Cousins, he's probably the only immediate upgrade over Tyrod that will be available this offseason (while he's healthy that is). I would put it to you that: 2) If you're truly comfortable with your rookie potentially "being thrown to the wolves" any moment, you really don't need a bridge QB. You need a decent backup, and just start the rookie. 1) If you think Bradford's injury history since 2013 are "flukes" I don't know what to say. Once is an accident, twice may be a coincidence, three times is a pattern. (In Bradford's case, it wasn't coincidence, it was reinjury of the same ligament, potentially due to rushing his return).
Tatonka68 Posted February 15, 2018 Posted February 15, 2018 7 hours ago, NastyNateSoldiers said: Rosen suffered not one but 2 concussions last season. I think its absolutely insane to trade the house for him. Rosen also an often injured QB dating back to High school. I really hope this is smoke. You spread rumors that you want Rosen, so another team panicks and trades up for him, then you trade up for your guy, Baker Mayfield with Indianapolis. LOL
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 15, 2018 Posted February 15, 2018 1 minute ago, MrEpsYtown said: Agreed! And, I've mentioned this in another thread but his left tackle for two years (LT and QB relationship can be a close one) Conor McDermott is on our roster and loves Rosen from everything I've read. How Conor feels about Rosen as a friend and teammate should be, at least, a part of the evaluation of Rosen. Interesting! I did not know that! Last I saw he'd been drafted by the Pats.
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