Nihilarian Posted February 14, 2018 Posted February 14, 2018 13 hours ago, Pete said: I would not trade up for a QB, and look to acquire more picks. There is a good chance that Lamar Jackson is available at 21. If so I make the pick and trade down for more picks. We need QB, DT, Edge, LBs, C, CB, T, WR- we need all the picks we can get! Do not waste draft capital to overpay for a QB. No thank you to Blaine Gabbert, Mark Sanchez, RGIII or the latest overhyped QB that comes with a steep price and a big cap hit. Stay put and let the QB and draft come to us 1 Please explain the love for another running QB who needs a bunch of developmental time to become an elite NFL pocket passer. I've seen a bunch of draft sites that list him as this years 6th best QB prospect and is some mock drafts he isn't even listed as a first-round pick. RG3 anyone? I'm hoping the Bills get one of the top three or four in this years QB class.
WideRightRevenge Posted February 14, 2018 Posted February 14, 2018 19 hours ago, Pete said: I would not trade up for a QB, and look to acquire more picks. There is a good chance that Lamar Jackson is available at 21. If so I make the pick and trade down for more picks. We need QB, DT, Edge, LBs, C, CB, T, WR- we need all the picks we can get! Do not waste draft capital to overpay for a QB. No thank you to Blaine Gabbert, Mark Sanchez, RGIII or the latest overhyped QB that comes with a steep price and a big cap hit. Stay put and let the QB and draft come to us http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/02/13/2012-serves-as-a-reminder-of-the-unpredictability-of-the-draft/ "The 2017 performance of those eight quarterbacks is a good reminder of the unpredictability of the draft. The four first-round quarterbacks in 2012 selected threw a combined total of zero passes in 2017. Andrew Luck, who went first overall to Indianapolis, missed the whole season with a shoulder injury. Robert Griffin III, who went second overall to Washington, is out of the NFL. Ryan Tannehill, who went eighth overall to Miami, missed the whole season with a knee injury. Brandon Weeden, who went 22nd overall to Cleveland, is a third-stringer for the Titans. The quarterback selected in the second round in 2012, Brock Osweiler, is so bad that his primary contribution in 2017 was being part of one of the strangest trades in NFL history: The Texans traded a second-round pick to the Browns just to get them go take Osweiler and his expensive contract off their hands. After absorbing Osweiler’s cap hit and watching him in the preseason, the Browns cut him. He ended up back with the Broncos, the team that initially drafted him, and did not play well in 2017. And then there were the next three quarterbacks drafted: Russell Wilson, who went 75th overall to Seattle, has won a Super Bowl and was an MVP candidate last season. Nick Foles, who went 88th overall to Philadelphia, just won the Super Bowl MVP award. And Kirk Cousins, who went 102nd overall to Washington, may sign the biggest contract in NFL history when he hits free agency next month." AMEN ... not sold on the spread of the top 4 vs. the others than can drop to 21-22 or beyond (i.e Jackson / White) 17 hours ago, simool said: Man I am not sold on Rudolph, coupled with him looking like Mike Rodak and Carly Simon's love child? Pass... I would take Jackson before him or better yet, I would trade back and take Mike White over both of them. Now that is funny .. though visually accurate . .how you pulled those two together to get Mason is fantastic.
oldmanfan Posted February 14, 2018 Posted February 14, 2018 I think people need to get past this idea that you have to draft a QB in round 1. We have done so twice in the drought period, Manuel and Losman, and both picks were bad. Ultimately you have to rely on the ability of the scouts and front office personnel to make good judgments on these guys. So let's say they feel Darnold is a can't miss guy (I would disagree, but they do a helluva lot more work on this than I do). Beane should then use his draft pick capital to move up and do what it takes to get him. But let's say that after scouting they feel a guy like a Mike White has as good a potential as the supposed top 4 guys. Then they'd be foolish to waste picks in round 1 when you can get him in round 2. We can all sit here and debate what they should or should not do in the draft (and that's fun, until someone claims they alone have the answers), but remember the front office guys, scouts, etc. have invested a ton more time in evaluations, plus these guys do it for a living and have done so for years. And even given that, if you look at top QB picks over the years only about 50% of guys taken round 1 become long term starters, and an even smaller percentage become that kind of start player every team looks for. My personal view? It comes down to how you play poker, and I'm a conservative poker player. If I'm holding two pair, I'll go with that as opposed to trying to draw to an inside straight. My two pair would be a FA QB that you have watched and know that he has a given skill set that you can work with. Ideally for me it would be Cousins; I think he's poised to be a really top tier QB (more a three of a kind or a straight for a poker hand). But if his price is too high, or if he elects to sign elsewhere, then give me a Bridgewater or a Bradford or maybe a McCarron, and then draft a kid like a White and use the majority of your picks to build up our fronts on both sides of the ball. I'll ride with my two pair, because I win more than I lose doing so. 1
MrEpsYtown Posted February 14, 2018 Posted February 14, 2018 Josh Rosen is the guy I hope we move up for. I do ilke Darnold and I think Allen and Mayfield are intriguing, but I would only move up for Rosen or Darnold.
billsredneck1 Posted February 14, 2018 Posted February 14, 2018 18 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said: No thanks, Rudolph is average and hurst is too small and disapeared in games. i would be happy with rudolph and vea.
Pete Posted February 14, 2018 Posted February 14, 2018 8 hours ago, Nihilarian said: Please explain the love for another running QB who needs a bunch of developmental time to become an elite NFL pocket passer. I've seen a bunch of draft sites that list him as this years 6th best QB prospect and is some mock drafts he isn't even listed as a first-round pick. RG3 anyone? I'm hoping the Bills get one of the top three or four in this years QB class. I did, but you didn't quote my whole quote. No thank you to Blaine Gabbert, Mark Sanchez, RGIII or the latest overhyped QB that comes with a steep price and a big cap hit. Stay put and let the QB and draft come to us..... "The 2017 performance of those eight quarterbacks is a good reminder of the unpredictability of the draft. The four first-round quarterbacks in 2012 selected threw a combined total of zero passes in 2017.
CritMark Posted February 14, 2018 Posted February 14, 2018 22 hours ago, Doc said: Trade for Foles with pick #22 and get a later-round pick back from the Eagles. That is all. Foles isn't going anywhere this offseason. He is under contract and between his & Wentz, the cost to the Eagles is only $15MM. However, there is a clause in Foles contract that he will become an UFA if he is still on the roster in Feb 2019. Best case scenario for the Eagles is Wentz is back and Foles doesn't play a down in 2018. That way the perceived value of Foles is still high and they trade him late season to a QB needy team and that team get the last three years of his contact at just $6.1MM/year. A team will overpay for the chance to get Foles for three years at that cost. The Eagles will make out like bandits.
Doc Posted February 14, 2018 Posted February 14, 2018 11 minutes ago, CritMark said: Foles isn't going anywhere this offseason. He is under contract and between his & Wentz, the cost to the Eagles is only $15MM. However, there is a clause in Foles contract that he will become an UFA if he is still on the roster in Feb 2019. Best case scenario for the Eagles is Wentz is back and Foles doesn't play a down in 2018. That way the perceived value of Foles is still high and they trade him late season to a QB needy team and that team get the last three years of his contact at just $6.1MM/year. A team will overpay for the chance to get Foles for three years at that cost. The Eagles will make out like bandits. We'll see.
CritMark Posted February 14, 2018 Posted February 14, 2018 3 hours ago, Doc said: We'll see. Tell me they know with 100% certainty that Wentz will be ready to go when the season starts and I would up the odds to 10% he will be traded this off season. Tell me they have a plan for a backup should Wentz go down again that they feel as comfortable with as Foles and I would up the odds to 10%. Tell me they have both and I would be willing to concede the odds are 20%. But I don't see it happening. He is cheap insurance and if Wentz is good to go, Foles will not have the opportunity to play poorly and diminish his value. I would expect him to be traded somewhere around week 10 if Wentz is going strong.
SoTier Posted February 14, 2018 Posted February 14, 2018 4 minutes ago, CritMark said: Tell me they know with 100% certainty that Wentz will be ready to go when the season starts and I would up the odds to 10% he will be traded this off season. Tell me they have a plan for a backup should Wentz go down again that they feel as comfortable with as Foles and I would up the odds to 10%. Tell me they have both and I would be willing to concede the odds are 20%. But I don't see it happening. He is cheap insurance and if Wentz is good to go, Foles will not have the opportunity to play poorly and diminish his value. I would expect him to be traded somewhere around week 10 if Wentz is going strong. Philly is NEVER going to find a backup for Wentz as competent as Foles for as little as they're paying him in 2018. Hell, they aren't going to find any backup for Wentz as competent as Foles. If they trade Foles at all (and I'm not sure that they will), it will be late, maybe just before the trading deadline. However, Foles seems to be a more complicated individual than most NFL players, so he might not even chase big $$ as a FA. He was willing to walk away when he wasn't happy, so who knows?
Nihilarian Posted February 14, 2018 Posted February 14, 2018 5 hours ago, Pete said: I did, but you didn't quote my whole quote. No thank you to Blaine Gabbert, Mark Sanchez, RGIII or the latest overhyped QB that comes with a steep price and a big cap hit. Stay put and let the QB and draft come to us..... "The 2017 performance of those eight quarterbacks is a good reminder of the unpredictability of the draft. The four first-round quarterbacks in 2012 selected threw a combined total of zero passes in 2017. While I agree with staying put at 21, 22 or perhaps trading up to the 12 spot should a top-four guy fall. While not giving up the entire farm for a QB who may turn out to be Ryan Leaf (Rosen) or stay put and draft a Lamar Jackson who needs a ton of pocket passing development (RG3). I would prefer to see the team sign Cousins or a lesser long-term answer at QB and use those three early draft picks on players to fill the holes on the current roster. More specifically I was asking why Jackson? Who is another running QB vs the pocket passers of Allen, Rudolph, Mayfield? Plus, he is 6'3'' 205 lbs which is slight for the NFL as even RG3 weighed 223. At this point, I would rather not see this team draft another running QB who at this time would NOT be an upgrade to TT as Jackson has accuracy, Mechanics issues and needs a bunch of developmental time.
Pete Posted February 15, 2018 Posted February 15, 2018 2 hours ago, Nihilarian said: While I agree with staying put at 21, 22 or perhaps trading up to the 12 spot should a top-four guy fall. While not giving up the entire farm for a QB who may turn out to be Ryan Leaf (Rosen) or stay put and draft a Lamar Jackson who needs a ton of pocket passing development (RG3). I would prefer to see the team sign Cousins or a lesser long-term answer at QB and use those three early draft picks on players to fill the holes on the current roster. More specifically I was asking why Jackson? Who is another running QB vs the pocket passers of Allen, Rudolph, Mayfield? Plus, he is 6'3'' 205 lbs which is slight for the NFL as even RG3 weighed 223. At this point, I would rather not see this team draft another running QB who at this time would NOT be an upgrade to TT as Jackson has accuracy, Mechanics issues and needs a bunch of developmental time. My hunch is that the top 4 QB's all go top 10 this draft after a few wild trades(I predict Cleveland trades down playing moneyball). If that goes down, the remaining QB's would get bumped up on draft boards. IMO Jackson is worth a gamble. He is every bit the athlete Tyrod is, and then some. His ceiling is as high as any other QB in this class. And he would instantly be better then Peterman. And I am not sure what options we will have. Someone will overpay for Cousins, and then every other available QB will get way overpaid. Considering our options, IMO Tyrod is pretty fair value at $16 million. I am ok if we pick up Tyrod's option, draft Lamar Jackson or Josh Allen at 21. Then we can fix front 7 and our oline with draft and free agency
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