DrDawkinstein Posted February 12, 2018 Posted February 12, 2018 42 minutes ago, 1billsfan said: The Bills already have a QB like Rudolph and his name is Peterman. I see no way the Bills are in play for him. Considering the fact that last year the Bills traded away the opportunity to draft either Mahomes or Watson, I think that the Bills are on the hook to give maximum effort in finding the QB answer who will be either as good or better than those two QBs. The QBs that fit that mold are Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield, Allen orJackson. If they draft Rudolph, the next 10 years will probably be filled with repeated questions of why they just didn't draft either Mahomes or Watson when they had the chance instead of being stuck with a low level starter during their era in Buffalo. IMO, the Bills will do something big for the QB position because of how bright the futures of Mahomes and Watson look right now. That shouldnt be the question, considering this FO wasnt in place. McD was here, but that is it. He would have been crazy to rely on Whaley's team's QB scouting reports to pin his HC career on so early in. Completely different scouting and personnel department between 2017 draft and 2018 draft. To that point though, I'd hope this staff doesnt make the same mistake as the last one, and not move forward quick enough with another QB pick. It could definitely be argued that the Bills should have been looking at drafting another QB in 2015 since EJ wasnt developing as hoped and they already knew 2013 was a weak year for QBs. This FO needs to make it's pick AND be ready to make its next pick until they find a QB. 1
K-9 Posted February 12, 2018 Posted February 12, 2018 5 minutes ago, Commonsense said: Mayock's biggest weakness is doing favors for players, agents and GMs. True, he’s been known to shill from time to time. Was it Gabbert he shared the same agent with?
ALF Posted February 12, 2018 Posted February 12, 2018 I will wait for the combine to see his final grade.
Luxy312 Posted February 12, 2018 Posted February 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, John from Hemet said: You have a few poster's on here that continuously parrot Mahommes being the next great QB.....I mean....be a fan of the kid if you want but he has shown NOTHING up to this point to make you believe he is the next great thing..... Right now? that draft trade down is looking pretty good.....REGARDLESS of what happens in the draft at the QB position. (I am not saying I dont want to draft a QB high....only that the bills have already won the KC trade) You're completely on point. I don't get all of the Mahomes hype either. it's worse than when the Bills paid Rob Johnson based on one game where he played well. 22 for 35 with 0 TD's and 1 INT doesn't impress me. What has he done is the question of the day and the answer is zero, nada, zilch. 1
CommonCents Posted February 12, 2018 Posted February 12, 2018 Just now, K-9 said: True, he’s been known to shill from time to time. Was it Gabbert he shared the same agent with? He also did a solid for BB with Mallet during a TC. A few other things stand out as well. I enjoy listening to Mayock and he has an eye for the game but far from perfect. I guess that is part of the job for guys like him though.
SouthNYfan Posted February 12, 2018 Posted February 12, 2018 1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: In the BR article they cut to the bottom line: "The issue with grading quarterbacks for the entire league (media) and not just one team is that flaws in a player's game might make him an awful fit for some teams and fine for others. If you want an athletic quarterback that can move, Rudolph isn't your guy. " A lot of the real questions in QB evaluation aren't questions that the media in general can answer, and possibly not the "Scout" quoted anonymously either: What's his head like? What kind of understanding does he have of pro-level defenses and how to read them? I don't see the 'weak arm' thing. My concern is how often does he progress in his reads and throw into tight windows? In the film clips I've seen, he does it, but you have to dig deep to find it. Is that just because those throws may not be flashy "deep bomb" TD highlights, or is it because he doesn't do it enough? Second concern is, I wasn't able to build a sense that he can feel pressure and adjust in the pocket. I think that classic pocket passers who lack that sense get hurt in the NFL (eg Bradford) Agree on all this. Good post hap! Every single QB is technically a system QB. Some guys can play in multiple systems for sure, but for example, the Mannings and Brady would be trash in a read option rollout system. Some QBs just can't play in a system that the NFL would require, these are guys who excel in college, then flounder in the NFL. Sometimes, the case is that they just didn't get the right OC. Look at Kurt Warner. Awesome with the Rams, trash with NYG, great again with Az. In regards to your last line, I love watching old elway clips. Sometimes he would dodge a blindside incoming sack without ever seeing the guy it seemed. I loved watching that. 1
Kirby Jackson Posted February 12, 2018 Posted February 12, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Luxy312 said: You're completely on point. I don't get all of the Mahomes hype either. it's worse than when the Bills paid Rob Johnson based on one game where he played well. 22 for 35 with 0 TD's and 1 INT doesn't impress me. What has he done is the question of the day and the answer is zero, nada, zilch. I’m kind of on this boat too. I like Mahomes as a player and would be surprised if he isn’t good. With that being said it’s WAY too early to call passing on him a mistake. Maybe it will be but we just don’t know yet. We haven’t seen him produce. Edited February 12, 2018 by Kirby Jackson 1
CommonCents Posted February 12, 2018 Posted February 12, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: That shouldnt be the question, considering this FO wasnt in place. McD was here, but that is it. He would have been crazy to rely on Whaley's team's QB scouting reports to pin his HC career on so early in. Completely different scouting and personnel department between 2017 draft and 2018 draft. To that point though, I'd hope this staff doesnt make the same mistake as the last one, and not move forward quick enough with another QB pick. It could definitely be argued that the Bills should have been looking at drafting another QB in 2015 since EJ wasnt developing as hoped and they already knew 2013 was a weak year for QBs. This FO needs to make it's pick AND be ready to make its next pick until they find a QB. That's a tough sell for OBD. We missed out on the future because...well we weren't ready yet! They needed a QB if McD wasn't given the trust to make the decision and Whaley and his scouts weren't to be trusted then the house cleaning should have happened when Rex was fired. I get it but it's still another mistake from OBD if Watson/Mahomes turn into stars. "We kinda did a half assed overhaul and didn't have anyone in the draft room that could evaluate a quaterback so we are going to let this opportunity pass us by" EHHHH Edited February 12, 2018 by Commonsense
SoCal Deek Posted February 12, 2018 Posted February 12, 2018 There are many Quarterbacks in the NFL that were not Top Draft picks. The top guys are generally either from top conferences (Luck, Newton, Winston, etc.) or the occasional phenom from a lower conference, who scouts look to as a diamond in the rough (Wentz, Allen). Then there are the Heisman hybrid guys (Manziel, etc.) whose game may not really translate to the NFL. And finally there are the many guys who come from top conference schools who may not be blue-chip 'top guys' (Dalton, Watson, Wilson, etc.) but who have a very good resume entering the Draft. It seems like this year Rudolph fits into this last group. He put up big numbers in a big conference against top level competition but isn't a Heisman winner, or a so-called 'top-guy'. That however is no reason for the Bills not to draft him. What we've seen from so, so many threads is that there are no sure things. Many of these guys bust. And busts come in all shapes and conferences....just like NFL stars do!
John from Riverside Posted February 12, 2018 Posted February 12, 2018 2 minutes ago, Commonsense said: That's a tough sell for OBD. We missed out on the future because...well we weren't ready yet! They needed a QB if McD wasn't given the trust to make the decision and Whaley and his scouts weren't to be trusted then the house cleaning should have happened when Rex was fired. I get it but it's still another mistake from OBD if Watson/Mahomes turn into stars. "We kinda did a half asses overhaul and didn't have anyone in the draft room that could evaluate a quaterback so we are going to let this opportunity pass us by" EHHHH
DrDawkinstein Posted February 12, 2018 Posted February 12, 2018 2 minutes ago, Commonsense said: That's a tough sell for OBD. We missed out on the future because...well we weren't ready yet! They needed a QB if McD wasn't given the trust to make the decision and Whaley and his scouts weren't to be trusted then the house cleaning should have happened when Rex was fired. I get it but it's still another mistake from OBD if Watson/Mahomes turn into stars. "We kinda did a half assed overhaul and didn't have anyone in the draft room that could evaluate a quaterback so we are going to let this opportunity pass us by" EHHHH Blame the Pegulas all you want for not handling the 2017 offseason properly. And keep in mind, I was/am a big fan of Whaley, but I'm not going to blame McD and certainly not going to blame Beane (who wasnt even here yet). The whole FO rebuild was done back-asswards. Thanks to the Pegulas.
John from Riverside Posted February 12, 2018 Posted February 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: There are many Quarterbacks in the NFL that were not Top Draft picks. The top guys are generally either from top conferences (Luck, Newton, Winston, etc.) or the occasional phenom from a lower conference, who scouts look to as a diamond in the rough (Wentz, Allen). Then there are the Heisman hybrid guys (Manziel, etc.) whose game may not really translate to the NFL. And finally there are the many guys who come from top conference schools who may not be blue-chip 'top guys' (Dalton, Watson, Wilson, etc.) but who have a very good resume entering the Draft. It seems like this year Rudolph fits into this last group. He put up big numbers in a big conference against top level competition but isn't a Heisman winner, or a so-called 'top-guy'. That however is no reason for the Bills not to draft him. What we've seen from so, so many threads is that there are no sure things. Many of these guys bust. And busts come in all shapes and conferences....just like NFL stars do! My big thing on trading up for a QB I know we have these 2 first round picks....but I am mentally preparing myself for it to cost us both of those AND the following years 1st round pick to trade up that high. - We have other needs and lots of great talent is gonna fall - There WILL be QBs at those twenty something picks that will at least have the "potential" to be better then what we have McD is a defensive guy......what if he wants a DT and a QB in that first round? Who can really fault him for that?
LABILLBACKER Posted February 12, 2018 Posted February 12, 2018 I'd prefer to trade up for Darnold but if that doesn't work I could live with Rudolph in the 2nd round.
CommonCents Posted February 12, 2018 Posted February 12, 2018 Just now, DrDawkinstein said: Blame the Pegulas all you want for not handling the 2017 offseason properly. And keep in mind, I was/am a big fan of Whaley, but I'm not going to blame McD and certainly not going to blame Beane (who wasnt even here yet). The whole FO rebuild was done back-asswards. Thanks to the Pegulas. That's what I was pointing towards. I disliked Whaley but if the Pegulas felt it right to keep him around then he needed to make the call unless they were allowing McD to make it. You can't go into a draft needing a QB and not have anyone in the room you trust to make the descion when you are in position to actually get one. Thats 100 percent on the Pegulas, I love Tre White and was begging for him before draft day but if either of those QBs become franchise guys then OBD failed us again.
John from Riverside Posted February 12, 2018 Posted February 12, 2018 1 minute ago, LABILLBACKER said: I'd prefer to trade up for Darnold but if that doesn't work I could live with Rudolph in the 2nd round. May not be there
SoCal Deek Posted February 12, 2018 Posted February 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, John from Hemet said: My big thing on trading up for a QB I know we have these 2 first round picks....but I am mentally preparing myself for it to cost us both of those AND the following years 1st round pick to trade up that high. - We have other needs and lots of great talent is gonna fall - There WILL be QBs at those twenty something picks that will at least have the "potential" to be better then what we have McD is a defensive guy......what if he wants a DT and a QB in that first round? Who can really fault him for that? I agree John. If you swing and miss after giving up all of those picks, the impact will last for years. Just waiting a couple of years and all of the 20/20 hindsight folks will be posting "see, we could have waited and had ________ without giving up a thing".
BuffaloHokie13 Posted February 12, 2018 Posted February 12, 2018 Just now, Commonsense said: That's what I was pointing towards. I disliked Whaley but if the Pegulas felt it right to keep him around then he needed to make the call unless they were allowing McD to make it. You can't go into a draft needing a QB and not have anyone in the room you trust to make the descion when you are in position to actually get one. Thats 100 percent on the Pegulas, I love Tre White and was begging for him before draft day but if either of those QBs become franchise guys then OBD failed us again. Isn't it all kind of moot? If they stayed at 10 they were taking Lattimore. Whether they replaced the scouts in February or May I don't really see that changing.
DrDawkinstein Posted February 12, 2018 Posted February 12, 2018 1 minute ago, Commonsense said: That's what I was pointing towards. I disliked Whaley but if the Pegulas felt it right to keep him around then he needed to make the call unless they were allowing McD to make it. You can't go into a draft needing a QB and not have anyone in the room you trust to make the descion when you are in position to actually get one. Thats 100 percent on the Pegulas, I love Tre White and was begging for him before draft day but if either of those QBs become franchise guys then OBD failed us again. I mean, how do you keep a GM around through 2 coaching hires but not trust him enough to let him make that hire on his own? And then 4 months after the 2nd HC hire, fire the GM and let your new HC hire his own GM?? The whole "process" was ridiculous. 1
Chicken Boo Posted February 12, 2018 Posted February 12, 2018 Wait wait...let me try this, since I hear it so much when I talk about Mayfield and Jackson. It's lazy to compare Bryce Petty and Mason Rudolph. There. I've done it.
CommonCents Posted February 12, 2018 Posted February 12, 2018 1 minute ago, BuffaloHokie13 said: Isn't it all kind of moot? If they stayed at 10 they were taking Lattimore. Whether they replaced the scouts in February or May I don't really see that changing. In what world does that logic lend any credibilty towards OBD? If they missed an opportunity on a franshise guy then they screwed up. You can't look back and say well they were going to screw it up anyways and it's all ok!!
Recommended Posts