Ol Dirty B Posted May 18, 2018 Posted May 18, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, JaxBills said: Dude, I think it boils down to condeming him before or after we know the facts. You seem happy to just proclaim them all guilty and wash your hands of it. Some of us think there is more we don't know... Or ever will. So let it play out. But it looks a lot like he will play and be a free man. So have a good day my friend. When the !@#$ did I do that? Since you're going to write my posts for me let me know if you want my password to my account. That way you can really have conversations with yourself. You can take the ignoring and misconstruing part right out of the equation. Who is all of them? Edited May 18, 2018 by Ol Dirty B
Sky Diver Posted May 18, 2018 Posted May 18, 2018 3 minutes ago, DC Tom said: What pisses me off about this sort of thing is that it makes real domestic violence cases more difficult to prosecute. Victims become more uncertain about being believed, people become more uncertain about whether accusers can be believed. It doesn't raise awareness of domestic violence, it exacerbates the difficulty of addressing it. What really pisses me off, though, is the small but militant set of feminists who will say her lying was a public service to domestic violence victims. No, it really isn't. It’s a horrible thing for real abuse victims. 2
TtownBillsFan Posted May 18, 2018 Posted May 18, 2018 (edited) On 5/15/2018 at 11:48 AM, Soda Popinski said: well that sucks that she lied, I called the guy an animal after reading that he kicked the dog and hit her. If she's lying and she's admitting it, lock her up now because that is as bad or worse than actually being abused. The damage to his reputation is irreparable. it's like being accused of rape. People never look at you the same again I haven't read the rest of the thread beyond this point, but it is for this very reason that people should learn to HOLD JUDGEMENT UNTIL ALL FACTS ARE IN! Do not rush to judgement, unless there is overwhelming EVIDENCE, and not just accusation/speculation/conjecture. That's what kills me about today's society; it used to be innocent until PROVEN guilty. It has, at least in the court of public opinion, flipped to guilty until proven innocent. It should not be that way, and it's a shame. Edited May 18, 2018 by TtownBillsFan
BillsBytheBay Posted May 18, 2018 Posted May 18, 2018 2 minutes ago, DC Tom said: What pisses me off about this sort of thing is that it makes real domestic violence cases more difficult to prosecute. Victims become more uncertain about being believed, people become more uncertain about whether accusers can be believed. It doesn't raise awareness of domestic violence, it exacerbates the difficulty of addressing it. What really pisses me off, though, is the small but militant set of feminists who will say her lying was a public service to domestic violence victims. No, it really isn't. I sat next to the woman who accused me of DV at my daughter's graduation today. Years ago She almost cost me my job, my freedom andy baby. She never felt any repercussions.
Sky Diver Posted May 18, 2018 Posted May 18, 2018 1 minute ago, TtownBillsFan said: I haven't read the rest of the thread, but it is for this very reason that people should learn to HOLD JUDGEMENT UNTIL ALL FACTS ARE IN! Do not rush to judgement, unless there is overwhelming EVIDENCE, and not just accusation/speculation/conjecture. That's what kills me about today's society; it used to be innocent until PROVEN guilty. It has, at least in the court of public opinion, flipped to guilty until proven innocent. It should not be that way, and it's a shame. I think it a combination of dishonest media and a lack of critical thinking.
Ol Dirty B Posted May 18, 2018 Posted May 18, 2018 Just now, JaxBills said: I sat next to the woman who accused me of DV at my daughter's graduation today. Years ago She almost cost me my job, my freedom andy baby. She never felt any repercussions. I'm sorry for what you went through, I know people who have been through the same thing, even in my estimation, wrongly convicted. They didnt get the domestic charges but got other ones associated with it. But this is telling about your view of this issue. You can't just insert yourself into Reuben fosters position. Anyways, we'll probably disagree on a lot. Best of luck
BillsBytheBay Posted May 18, 2018 Posted May 18, 2018 33 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said: Innocent until proven guilty is a legal principle, and needs no defending. If we aren't jurors it has nothing to do with what you or I think. I don't believe anything she says, and I don't believe anything he says. I have my opinions but they are just that, opinions. I'd think you've gone beyond defending this principle that is in no danger. That kinda reads like you are not on the jury so you can judge. It also reads like you believe since they both are liers you've made your decision. But maybe you ment something else?
Ol Dirty B Posted May 18, 2018 Posted May 18, 2018 6 minutes ago, TtownBillsFan said: I haven't read the rest of the thread beyond this point, but it is for this very reason that people should learn to HOLD JUDGEMENT UNTIL ALL FACTS ARE IN! Do not rush to judgement, unless there is overwhelming EVIDENCE, and not just accusation/speculation/conjecture. That's what kills me about today's society; it used to be innocent until PROVEN guilty. It has, at least in the court of public opinion, flipped to guilty until proven innocent. It should not be that way, and it's a shame. It has always been guilty until proven innocent in the public eye man. It's how people are wired. That's why the court of public opinion doesn't mean anything.
BillsBytheBay Posted May 18, 2018 Posted May 18, 2018 2 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said: I'm sorry for what you went through, I know people who have been through the same thing, even in my estimation, wrongly convicted. They didnt get the domestic charges but got other ones associated with it. But this is telling about your view of this issue. You can't just insert yourself into Reuben fosters position. Anyways, we'll probably disagree on a lot. Best of luck Actually I think we agree a lot. We just draw different conclusions based on experience. 1 minute ago, Ol Dirty B said: It has always been guilty until proven innocent in the public eye man. It's how people are wired. That's why the court of public opinion doesn't mean anything. Not in every case. And some of us won't stand for it.
Sky Diver Posted May 18, 2018 Posted May 18, 2018 4 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said: It has always been guilty until proven innocent in the public eye man. It's how people are wired. That's why the court of public opinion doesn't mean anything. The court of public opinion doesn’t mean anything? Assualts against your reputation and character and the stigma it carries is inconsequential?
Ol Dirty B Posted May 18, 2018 Posted May 18, 2018 Just now, JaxBills said: That kinda reads like you are not on the jury so you can judge. It also reads like you believe since they both are liers you've made your decision. But maybe you ment something else? Well yea, that is exactly what I meant. I'm free to judge however I want. It's my right, why shouldn't I? Plenty of people say they don't judge, well I do. The people who don't say the judge, don't believe them. You're inherently making a judgment by not judging. In this instance, I'd say you are judging as well. But yea, in my meaningless judgment, can't stress meaningless enough. She's a liar, he's probably a liar, and they're both dumb. Don't really care about either of them or what happens to them. Hope they both make millions. Doesn't matter to me except when Foster plays the Bills. Only connection I have to him. 8 minutes ago, Sky Diver said: The court of public opinion doesn’t mean anything? Assualts against your reputation and character and the stigma it carries is inconsequential? Man, you really respond conveniently to try to fix the argument in a very favorable way to yourself. Are you a lawyer? I don't think you're a lawyer, I think you'd challenge yourself more if you were one. But I bet you could make a great ambulance chaser. 15 minutes ago, JaxBills said: Actually I think we agree a lot. We just draw different conclusions based on experience. I actually think this is spot on. I'm also putting my own experiences into this, very good point.
Mr. WEO Posted May 19, 2018 Posted May 19, 2018 7 hours ago, DC Tom said: For women, yes. Not for men, not really. I was using sarcasm to challenge his actual manhood. 1
JohnC Posted May 19, 2018 Posted May 19, 2018 8 hours ago, DC Tom said: What pisses me off about this sort of thing is that it makes real domestic violence cases more difficult to prosecute. Victims become more uncertain about being believed, people become more uncertain about whether accusers can be believed. It doesn't raise awareness of domestic violence, it exacerbates the difficulty of addressing it. What really pisses me off, though, is the small but militant set of feminists who will say her lying was a public service to domestic violence victims. No, it really isn't. I never heard of a feminist or anti-feminist say that lying and falsely accusing someone of DV was a public service to domestic violence victims. I have heard of the opposite response that falsely accusing someone hurts the cause which is the opposite of what you are stating. Your response is perplexing.
DC Tom Posted May 19, 2018 Posted May 19, 2018 1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said: I was using sarcasm to challenge his actual manhood. Hadn't noticed. That he had actual manhood, that is. 39 minutes ago, JohnC said: I never heard of a feminist or anti-feminist say that lying and falsely accusing someone of DV was a public service to domestic violence victims. I have heard of the opposite response that falsely accusing someone hurts the cause which is the opposite of what you are stating. Your response is perplexing. I've heard it frequently. Used to hear it all the time in college: "highlights the problem," "better a hundred men be punished than one rapist go free," "it shows women they can accuse and face their rapists without fear." If you haven't heard it, you've just managed to avoid those militant idiots. Which is not a bad thing...but they do exist, and say stupid **** like that. 1
4merper4mer Posted May 19, 2018 Posted May 19, 2018 28 minutes ago, DC Tom said: Hadn't noticed. That he had actual manhood, that is. I've heard it frequently. Used to hear it all the time in college: "highlights the problem," "better a hundred men be punished than one rapist go free," "it shows women they can accuse and face their rapists without fear." If you haven't heard it, you've just managed to avoid those militant idiots. Which is not a bad thing...but they do exist, and say stupid **** like that. All true. Especially Mr. Pats and sarcasm thing. It's also true that some very real DV victims have falsely recanted stories out of fear/love/greed/a million other things. It's a complicated world.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted May 19, 2018 Posted May 19, 2018 53 minutes ago, DC Tom said: If you haven't heard it, you've just managed to avoid those militant idiots. Which is not a bad thing...but they do exist, and say stupid **** like that. Unfortunately, wherever there is an issue, you can safely bet the rent there is a militant idiot saying stupid **** Works for any side of any issue IME 24 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said: It's also true that some very real DV victims have falsely recanted stories out of fear/love/greed/a million other things. It's a complicated world. There have been some very embarrassing (to the police) cases of this. In several, it came to light when the rapist was charged with another rape, and during the investigation evidence seized (videos, photos, "trophies" such as underwear, props) proved the first crime occurred exactly as the "recanting" victim initially described. It is indeed a complicated world.
Lfod Posted May 19, 2018 Posted May 19, 2018 (edited) I stand by what I said before. I've seen dudes get literally destroyed by a woman. When a woman turns really turns on you she will castrate you even (John Bobbet). They can be the softest sweetest things ever. Can give you so much joy. Just some guys know when stuff is toxic and head for the hills and some guys just niave sticking it out when it's toxic and get burned. Know when it's time to walk away and it can't be salvadged. I think this guy may have learned that lesson. Edited May 19, 2018 by Lfod
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