BobbyC81 Posted February 9, 2018 Posted February 9, 2018 11 hours ago, Mat68 said: Possibly Jackson is there. Eveyone can hold on to Rodgers falling like Marino but the majority of guys picked where Buffalo is Weedon, Brady Quinn, an johny Manziel. And oddly Weedon, Quinn and Manziel were all drafted by Cleveland and all with the 22nd pick of the draft. So, wouldn't it be hilarious for them to trade with the Bills and get pick #22 and then use it on another QB that doesn't pan out?
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted February 9, 2018 Posted February 9, 2018 7 hours ago, matter2003 said: Maybe...Aaron Rodgers went in the mid 20s... Its a crap shoot. Nobody has any idea which if these QBs will turn out to be good and which ones will crap the bed. All of the analysis doesnt mean much once they step on the field in the NFL. Carr and Wilson agree with you. The highest paid QB in the NFL right now was the 62 pick in 2014, likely to soon be passed by a guy who was a 4th rounder. A third round QB just won a Super Bowl. The third qb selected in 2017 (12th overall) has been the headliner so far there. Its much more important to find the right guy and get him than to be able to draft the most hyped guy early
PIZ Posted February 9, 2018 Posted February 9, 2018 Any chance we could trade down with both of our firsts and pick up 2 extra second round picks and the trading teams 1st round pick next year? What could we realistically get if we trade both of our firsts? Maybe we'd be better off with 2 extra seconds and 2 extra thirds (assuming we can't get the other teams future first)?
Estro Posted February 9, 2018 Posted February 9, 2018 Jimmy Garoppolo went #62 in the '14 draft. We took EJ #17 in '14. It's all about picking a good player and developing that talent
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 9, 2018 Posted February 9, 2018 2 hours ago, ndirish1978 said: Love all the people saying yes. Yes, it's a possibility. A possibility the Bills have been banking on for 18 years and has not worked out for us once. That's really not a fair descriptive of the Bills last 18 years, though, is it? In the last 18 years, we have NOT been banking on careful evaluation and good scouting to find us a QB we want to take a shot on in the early rounds of the draft on a regular basis. We have, in fact, used a total of 3 picks in the top 3 rounds of the draft over 18 years - ~ 1 QB every 6 years, 2 1st round, 1 3rd round. We did not consider either first round choice (Losman or Manuel) worthy of our original 1st round pick. Even if you factor trades (eg Rob Johnson, Bledsoe) into the picture, that's still pretty egregious neglect of an unfilled position. In the same time period, we've used 21 picks in the first 3 rounds on DB. I grant you, we need more DB than QB, but the QB position has more impact on the team and is harder to find in FA.
BuffaloHokie13 Posted February 9, 2018 Posted February 9, 2018 1 hour ago, Estro said: Jimmy Garoppolo went #62 in the '14 draft. We took EJ #17 in '14. It's all about picking a good player and developing that talent We took EJ in '13.
xRUSHx Posted February 9, 2018 Posted February 9, 2018 1 hour ago, PIZ said: Any chance we could trade down with both of our firsts and pick up 2 extra second round picks and the trading teams 1st round pick next year? What could we realistically get if we trade both of our firsts? Maybe we'd be better off with 2 extra seconds and 2 extra thirds (assuming we can't get the other teams future first)? Whaley is that you?
PIZ Posted February 9, 2018 Posted February 9, 2018 14 minutes ago, xRUSHx said: Whaley is that you? Yes it is. I was thinking that I would try a different approach, and accumulate more 2nd and 3rd picks. My first thought was to trade up to #1, and give up 21, 22, 2nd round pick, 4th roun pick, plus next year's number 1 to draft Darnold.........that's likely what it would take. Everyone talks about the Bills draft picks like it is a great situation, but they only have 8 picks. 2018 draft picks Round 1: Buffalo, Kansas City Round 2: Buffalo, L.A. Rams Round 3: Philadelphia Round 4: Buffalo Round 5: Buffalo, Jacksonville Round 6: None Round 7: None
Mat68 Posted February 9, 2018 Posted February 9, 2018 1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: That's really not a fair descriptive of the Bills last 18 years, though, is it? In the last 18 years, we have NOT been banking on careful evaluation and good scouting to find us a QB we want to take a shot on in the early rounds of the draft on a regular basis. We have, in fact, used a total of 3 picks in the top 3 rounds of the draft over 18 years - ~ 1 QB every 6 years, 2 1st round, 1 3rd round. We did not consider either first round choice (Losman or Manuel) worthy of our original 1st round pick. Even if you factor trades (eg Rob Johnson, Bledsoe) into the picture, that's still pretty egregious neglect of an unfilled position. In the same time period, we've used 21 picks in the first 3 rounds on DB. I grant you, we need more DB than QB, but the QB position has more impact on the team and is harder to find in FA. This is why now it makes sense Mcdermott would punt on taking a Qb. Sure Mahomes or Watson very well could become generational talents, but Mcdermott didn't trust the scouting departments ability to identify talent at Qb. No way he can draft a Qb with a lame duck GM.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 9, 2018 Posted February 9, 2018 1 minute ago, Mat68 said: This is why now it makes sense Mcdermott would punt on taking a Qb. Sure Mahomes or Watson very well could become generational talents, but Mcdermott didn't trust the scouting departments ability to identify talent at Qb. No way he can draft a Qb with a lame duck GM. That could be true, but you would think the Panthers were scouting QB as all players so he'd have some gouge. Overall, fair point 2 hours ago, Estro said: Jimmy Garoppolo went #62 in the '14 draft. We took EJ #17 in '14. It's all about picking a good player and developing that talent You've got your drafts mixed. We took EJ in '13, after having passed on 8 QB taken in the first 4 rounds 2012 (including Luck, Tannehill, Cousins, Foles, and Wilson) and before passing on 7 QB taken in the first 4 rounds 2014 (including Bortles, Bridgewater, Carr, and Garappolo). The other QB in 2013 were Geno Smith, Mike Glennon, and Matt Barkley so you can't say we missed someone better, we just decided for unfathomable reasons to "buy high" on a particularly poor crop. 12 hours ago, matter2003 said: Maybe...Aaron Rodgers went in the mid 20s... Its a crap shoot. Nobody has any idea which if these QBs will turn out to be good and which ones will crap the bed. All of the analysis doesnt mean much once they step on the field in the NFL. I'm not sure. When there's a guy that most people are "all in" on, like the Mannings or Luck or Bradford, he generally (barring injury) seems to work out. After that, though, there seem to be asterisks and caveats and it's a matter of what flaws you decide to roll the dice with.
dollars 2 donuts Posted February 9, 2018 Posted February 9, 2018 17 hours ago, joesixpack said: Best of luck without a tradeup. Honestly, I'm starting to think we should tank THIS year. Trade off TT, Shady, Glenn and anyone else with a high price tag, fill holes in draft, sputter to 1-3 wins and then go QB. Joe, not ripping your logic. However, you could do it the other way to the same effect: trade everything you need to get one of the top guys, then trade away the guys you mentioned for future draft picks. I would rather have the FQB this year, than next year.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted February 9, 2018 Posted February 9, 2018 Just now, dollars 2 donuts said: Joe, not ripping your logic. However, you could do it the other way to the same effect: trade everything you need to get one of the top guys, then trade away the guys you mentioned for future draft picks. I would rather have the FQB this year, than next year. Believe me I would too, but I doubt we get one in the draft. Position too ****ty, and too many people above need.
dollars 2 donuts Posted February 9, 2018 Posted February 9, 2018 5 minutes ago, joesixpack said: Believe me I would too, but I doubt we get one in the draft. Position too ****ty, and too many people above need. Yeah. There's the rub.
Big Turk Posted February 9, 2018 Posted February 9, 2018 16 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: That could be true, but you would think the Panthers were scouting QB as all players so he'd have some gouge. Overall, fair point You've got your drafts mixed. We took EJ in '13, after having passed on 8 QB taken in the first 4 rounds 2012 (including Luck, Tannehill, Cousins, Foles, and Wilson) and before passing on 7 QB taken in the first 4 rounds 2014 (including Bortles, Bridgewater, Carr, and Garappolo). The other QB in 2013 were Geno Smith, Mike Glennon, and Matt Barkley so you can't say we missed someone better, we just decided for unfathomable reasons to "buy high" on a particularly poor crop. I'm not sure. When there's a guy that most people are "all in" on, like the Mannings or Luck or Bradford, he generally (barring injury) seems to work out. After that, though, there seem to be asterisks and caveats and it's a matter of what flaws you decide to roll the dice with. How does Bradford get included in there? The man was a nunber 1 overall pick, hasn't even thrown for 4000 yards in a season and has a terrible record. In fact he has no season with a winning record other than last yeaf when he played 2 games. I kniw football is team game but when youve played QB for that long and dont have ANY winning seasons that concerns me. He played on some good enough teams that a good QB should have been able to get more than 7 wins.
ndirish1978 Posted February 9, 2018 Posted February 9, 2018 2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: That's really not a fair descriptive of the Bills last 18 years, though, is it? In the last 18 years, we have NOT been banking on careful evaluation and good scouting to find us a QB we want to take a shot on in the early rounds of the draft on a regular basis. We have, in fact, used a total of 3 picks in the top 3 rounds of the draft over 18 years - ~ 1 QB every 6 years, 2 1st round, 1 3rd round. We did not consider either first round choice (Losman or Manuel) worthy of our original 1st round pick. Even if you factor trades (eg Rob Johnson, Bledsoe) into the picture, that's still pretty egregious neglect of an unfilled position. In the same time period, we've used 21 picks in the first 3 rounds on DB. I grant you, we need more DB than QB, but the QB position has more impact on the team and is harder to find in FA. Yeah it's a fair description - as you stated it shows the pathetic amount of emphasis this team has placed on the most important position on the field. We've been waiting for a QB to fall in our lap by luck for years, I'm tired of it.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 9, 2018 Posted February 9, 2018 3 minutes ago, ndirish1978 said: Yeah it's a fair description - as you stated it shows the pathetic amount of emphasis this team has placed on the most important position on the field. We've been waiting for a QB to fall in our lap by luck for years, I'm tired of it. We haven't waited for a QB to fall in our lap by luck - we've been actively avoiding QB who do "fall in our lap" and when we do decide to pull the trigger...it's for a guy we don't think enough of to take where our "lap" is, we trade down (or skip with our "lap" then move back lower down eg Losman)
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 9, 2018 Posted February 9, 2018 5 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: Carr and Wilson agree with you. The highest paid QB in the NFL right now was the 62 pick in 2014, likely to soon be passed by a guy who was a 4th rounder. A third round QB just won a Super Bowl. The third qb selected in 2017 (12th overall) has been the headliner so far there. Its much more important to find the right guy and get him than to be able to draft the most hyped guy early The thing is, when you go to the later rounds it really is kind of a crap shoot. It's not an accident that the highest paid QB and the 3rd round guy who just won the SB are not on their first team and the 4th rounder will be a FA - that's the other QB strategy, let other teams throw darts in the late rounds and then pay a premium for picking the 1 guy in 5-7 draft picks that proved out.
Fan in Chicago Posted February 9, 2018 Posted February 9, 2018 15 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: We haven't waited for a QB to fall in our lap by luck - we've been actively avoiding QB who do "fall in our lap" and when we do decide to pull the trigger...it's for a guy we don't think enough of to take where our "lap" is, we trade down (or skip with our "lap" then move back lower down eg Losman) Yes, exactly. Bills have historically over-thought this decision or treated the QB position as any other when QB shouldnt purely be selected/not selected based on the value scale used for other positions
Dr. Who Posted February 9, 2018 Posted February 9, 2018 17 hours ago, RochesterRob said: Watson is hind sight and Mahomes really has not had much of a chance to display what he can or can not do. Well, I remember a number of folks, including myself, pushing for drafting Watson or Mahomes before the draft. Gunner Bill was really high on Watson. I agree that we don't really know about Mahomes yet.
Mat68 Posted February 9, 2018 Posted February 9, 2018 2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: That could be true, but you would think the Panthers were scouting QB as all players so he'd have some gouge. Overall, fair point You've got your drafts mixed. We took EJ in '13, after having passed on 8 QB taken in the first 4 rounds 2012 (including Luck, Tannehill, Cousins, Foles, and Wilson) and before passing on 7 QB taken in the first 4 rounds 2014 (including Bortles, Bridgewater, Carr, and Garappolo). The other QB in 2013 were Geno Smith, Mike Glennon, and Matt Barkley so you can't say we missed someone better, we just decided for unfathomable reasons to "buy high" on a particularly poor crop. I'm not sure. When there's a guy that most people are "all in" on, like the Mannings or Luck or Bradford, he generally (barring injury) seems to work out. After that, though, there seem to be asterisks and caveats and it's a matter of what flaws you decide to roll the dice with. Their (Carolina) main needs were CB, WR, and OT. I am not surprised those were they main players picked and I would bet those where the main targets by Carolina as well. Carolina is not spending the same amount of time scouting the crop of Qbs that Buffalo was. Yes they are scouting them and ranking them but they are not digging deep to see which top Qb fits the Panthers. That would be a waste of assets and time because they where not drafting a Qb 1 with Cam winning the MVP 2 seasons prior and still in his prime.
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