Tyrod wants to “Continue to be accurate..”

[Teddy KGB]

2 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Next to the final score the most important stat in the NFL is turnover differential.

 

It's not debatable........as much as football changes the impact of that stat simply does not.

 

And as such the first job of all QB's is do their part and take care of the football.

 

Interceptions and lost fumbles by the QB are immensely and directly impactful on the team.

 

Not sure what other context you need but that applies to all stats.

 

Like for instance 2 of Taylors 4 interceptions where chest-to-chin high throws that went thru Charles Clay's hands,  off his body and to the defender.   

 

Taylor's ball security isn't a fluke.......he is the lowest interception % passer in NFL history.

 

Like it or not trading TD passes 1 for 1 with turnovers is not good business...........so give me 2-5 less TD passes and 10 less turnovers any day.    That's an easy one.    

 

What are you gonna do when it’s playoff time and you need points ?  ??‍♂️

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

If he wants to "continue to be accurate" cut him TODAY.

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

12 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

This post would be relevant if 'amount of turnovers' was the sole factor in determining QB performance. Since it isn't...it isn't.

 

Yeah I guess that's why they invented broad stats like QBR...........which Taylor has generally ranked highly at........but that doesn't satisfy everyone either.

 

Turnovers just happen to be the most important stat in the game..........it's highly relevant.

 

I know I am arguing with people who are overly emotional about the subject and not open to discussion.........but this board is for discussion not just a personal tantrum room for some of you.

 

 

[PauleeeWalnuts]

17 hours ago, Bill Murray said:

Well he is the all time leading Bills passer for completion percentage, so that says something about accuracy (and about previous Bills QBs).  Now throws not attempted is another theoretical stat altogether.  

 

Generally, I wish everyone would stop being so polorized regarding Taylor.  He is a slightly above average starter, and has had a good cap number the past couple years. He isn’t a top 10 QB in the league.  It’s pretty straight forward.  People treat it like the Devine mystery or something where you have crusaders and atheists both willing to die for their beliefs.

On what planet is TT anywhere near above average? 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

I wasn't saying that's what he does on EVERY play. What I was saying was that a QB could have 100% completion pct by dumping it off on every single play. And as such, that stat is pretty flawed. Especially if you're trying to say it pertains to a throwers accuracy.

 

No, Tyrod doesn't dump off every play. But I think you'd be fooling yourself if you thought that a lot of those "passes" weren't Shady picking up chunks after the touch. And let's be honest - he's not throwing the ball unless a guy is sitting in his route and staring at him. So his completion percentage and lack of INT's is of no surprise and worth very little to me.

 

Over on another thread, I shamelessly shilled for a post I did on the results of QB drafts, where I used completion percentage, YPA, and TD/INT ratio as the metrics.

There's a reason for choosing those three metrics - you have a point about completion percentage by itself, but if it goes with high YPA (and high YPC), you know that can't be the explanation.  Now, you have a point that YPA includes YAC, but to no one's surprise, there's a stat for that too.  It's called "Air yards" and is available as an NFL next gen stat.

 

This year, Tyrod's YPA were 6.7 and YPC 10.6.  His air yards were 6.2.  That means on average, someone picks up 0.5 yards per attempt after the catch for Taylor.

 

In other words, you are fooling yourself if you think a lot of those passes are Shady picking up chunks after the touch - in fact, it's a legit beef on Tyrod that he doesn't necessarily put the ball in a spot that enables good YAC.  And let's be honest, if you watch coach's film, you can see that Tyrod does, in fact, throw the ball when guys are not sitting in his route staring. 

 

Again, one reason we see people appearing to argue for Taylor is just this sort of over-the-top nonsense which is not borne out by facts, including the very nice touch of trying to persuade by appeals to emotion "you're fooling yourself" and "let's be honest" in trying to persuade people to agree notwithstanding evidence to the contrary.  

 

Do I want the Bills to upgrade from Taylor yes, yes I do.  Until you're starting Brees or Rodgers, always try to upgrade.  But let's not have silly stuff about how completion percentage and lack of INTs are meaningless. or valueless.

4 minutes ago, PaulieYayo said:

On what planet is TT anywhere near above average? 

 

PFF planet apparently

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/final-nfl-qb-rankings-by-pff-player-grades-2017

 

(edit for those who don't know, I don't fancy PFF)

 

1 hour ago, joesixpack said:

If he wants to "continue to be accurate" cut him TODAY.

 

can we please not reprise 2013?

Edited February 8, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

can we please not reprise 2013?

 

Why not?

 

We're not going anywhere with the guy

 

[ndirish1978]

Having TT as a QB is like taking a friend to the prom. Nice to not need a date and you may have a fun time, but your night's not going anywhere past fun. 

Edited February 8, 2018 by ndirish1978

[BringBackOrton]

3 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

The complaints about where Taylor throws have been a moving goal post..........first it was said that he couldn't throw over the middle.........then he didn't throw to RB's enough..........then he does those things in a new scheme were it's necessary and now the complaint is that all he does is check the ball down.    He lead the NFL's top big play offense in 2015 AND 2016........but somehow that doesn't matter........he's Captain Checkdown.

 

As I've tried to point out..........while the NFL is a passing league still.......there has been a trend the past couple of years where QB's aren't putting up numbers like in the recent past.   

 

2015 there were 11 QB's who threw for 30 or more TD's..........in 2016 a year when the Bills big plays in the passing game declined due mostly to Watkins injury the number of 30 TD passers fell to 5.     And this year that number fell all the way down to just 3.   From 11 down to 3 in two seasons.   So most QB's are seeing drops in production.   Taylor was down this year........and much of it was due to receiver, scheme, play calling issues.........but in general the passing game was down in the NFL.    

 

 

Are checkdown's passes or runs?

 

Why do you keep propping up this fake news?

[PauleeeWalnuts]

20 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Over on another thread, I shamelessly shilled for a post I did on the results of QB drafts, where I used completion percentage, YPA, and TD/INT ratio as the metrics.

There's a reason for choosing those three metrics - you have a point about completion percentage by itself, but if it goes with high YPA (and high YPC), you know that can't be the explanation.  Now, you have a point that YPA includes YAC, but to no one's surprise, there's a stat for that too.  It's called "Air yards" and is available as an NFL next gen stat.

 

This year, Tyrod's YPA were 6.7 and YPC 10.6.  His air yards were 6.2.  That means on average, someone picks up 0.5 yards per attempt after the catch for Taylor.

 

In other words, you are fooling yourself if you think a lot of those passes are Shady picking up chunks after the touch - in fact, it's a legit beef on Tyrod that he doesn't necessarily put the ball in a spot that enables good YAC.  And let's be honest, if you watch coach's film, you can see that Tyrod does, in fact, throw the ball when guys are not sitting in his route staring. 

 

Again, one reason we see people appearing to argue for Taylor is just this sort of over-the-top nonsense which is not borne out by facts, including the very nice touch of trying to persuade by appeals to emotion "you're fooling yourself" and "let's be honest" in trying to persuade people to agree notwithstanding evidence to the contrary.  

 

Do I want the Bills to upgrade from Taylor yes, yes I do.  Until you're starting Brees or Rodgers, always try to upgrade.  But let's not have silly stuff about how completion percentage and lack of INTs are meaningless. or valueless.

 

PFF planet apparently

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/final-nfl-qb-rankings-by-pff-player-grades-2017

 

(edit for those who don't know, I don't fancy PFF)

 

 

can we please not reprise 2013?

Mind blown by PFF

[grb]

1 hour ago, jmc12290 said:

Are checkdown's passes or runs?

 

Why do you keep propping up this fake news?

 

 

This one never gets old : Taylor in 2015 & 2016 whenever he had Watkins and Woods to throw to :

63.6% comp. 8.25 YPA. 27 TD passes. 6 INTs

That's over two years and fifteen games total.

Funny how "Captain Checkdown" disappeared whenever the Bills could field two NFL-grade receivers, huh?

 

 

Edited February 8, 2018 by grb

[BringBackOrton]

3 minutes ago, grb said:

 

 

This one never gets old : Taylor in 2015 & 2016 whenever he had Watkins and Woods to throw to :

63.6% comp. 8.25 YPA. 27 TD passes. 6 INTs

That's over two years and fifteen games total.

Funny how "Captain Checkdown" disappeared whenever the Bills fielded two NFL-level receivers, huh?

 

 

Wait, wasn't Woods not good enough to be the Bills #2 for Taylor? He was "a high-end #3 who was a great blocker."  Taylor needed better WR's to succeed.

 

Funny how that changed after Woods met a real QB and embarrassed TT.

Edited February 8, 2018 by jmc12290

[grb]

9 minutes ago, jmc12290 said:

Wait, wasn't Woods not good enough to be the Bills #2 for Taylor? He was "a high-end #3 who was a great blocker."  Taylor needed better WR's to succeed.

 

Funny how that changed after Woods met a real QB and embarrassed TT.

 

Really? That's the best you can do? 

The numbers I quoted are still there - making you look foolish.

 

I will say this : It's interesting that Taylor used Watkins as his One & Woods as his Two, whereas Goff uses Woods as his One & Watkins as his Two. That's interesting, and I'm sure someone knowledgeable about football would have fascinating things to say about it. Not you of course; you're pretty useless for that sort of thing.....

 

 

Edited February 8, 2018 by grb

[CircleTheWagons99]

The guy has won 2 games in his career without defensive help(TOs). Ill just leave that for you to think about. 

 

 

Jacksonville and Browns: 2016

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

11 minutes ago, jmc12290 said:

Wait, wasn't Woods not good enough to be the Bills #2 for Taylor? He was "a high-end #3 who was a great blocker."  Taylor needed better WR's to succeed.

 

Funny how that changed after Woods met a real QB and embarrassed TT.

Chris Hogan too.  

[Saxum]

19 hours ago, Augie said:

I just want to continue being better looking and more wealthy than George Clooney. 

You have a good chance; I hear he is not well and I am sure you will be better looking and wealthier than a corpse.

[Augie]

17 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

You have a good chance; I hear he is not well and I am sure you will be better looking and wealthier than a corpse.

Do you read in the checkout ailes? I just look at my phone....  

[Saxum]

7 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

A guy could throw 100% of his passes two feet in front of him and as long as the RB doesn't drop it; he'd have 100% completion percentage. Which, honestly, isn't far off from what Taylor does.

 

No not honest at all; very slanted to try to support opinion.

7 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

And no, a guy doesn't throw for 6.7 ypa or 10.6 ypc (This season, and the lowest for his 3 years as starter) if he's throwing 100% of his passes 2 feet in front of him.  That's hyperbole.

 

"Hyperboyle (or exaggeration) is a sign of someone unprepared for battle of wits" my debate teacher used to say.,

7 hours ago, Worstcaseontario said:

Id rather have jamarcus russel than TT at this point

 

I think we would rather have JaMarcus Russell than you but neither point means much.

[T-Bomb]

On ‎2‎/‎7‎/‎2018 at 11:31 PM, GoBills808 said:

What makes you believe he’s slightly above average? I have him in 18-24 best range...slightly to well below average.

 

You have him at?  Seriously?  LMAO

[H2o]

Continue to be accurate?........ And the numbers will tell you he is one of the more accurate QB's in the league as far as completion percentage goes. But there are many other things that go into this situation with Tyrod that some don't take into account, those same flaws that I have mentioned about him time and again. He is hesitant letting the ball go or chooses not to when he is needed to throw his man open. Tyrod in most instances waits until his guy is open to throw the ball. This is not conducive for consistent success in the NFL. When he is trying to throw his man open or put up a 50/50 ball for his receivers it's usually off target. The throw to Benjamin in the playoffs is the perfect example. A back shoulder throw gets you a TD. Tyrod throws a high fade. He's also not seeing the whole field out there a lot of times so he's just hitting his check-downs. That tends to have a way of padding the completion stats as well. I like Tyrod, I really do, but we have seen what he is. If we had a early 2000's Ravens or Bucs defense we might be able to do something special. It's not happening. We still need to find our guy at QB if we want our team to go from scraping in to contending. 

 

 

Edited February 9, 2018 by H2o

[Thurman#1]

On 2/9/2018 at 2:18 AM, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Dude.  Over in another thread, there's a serious proposal by a generally good poster to roll next year with someone like Clemens or Siemian, Peterman, and the 5th or 6th QB in the draft.  That's functionally pretty damn close to "anyone but Tyrod", and yes, "Anyone but Tyrod" has been explicitly stated by several - including one poster I generally respect.

 

Throwing the "reduction to the absurd" by inserting Beyonce etc when clearly in context "anyone" means "any QB" is silly.  I thought you were better than that.

 

I appreciate being recognized as not one of the nuttier posters, but please realize the argument goes both ways - I think a lot of the Taylor defense is directed at his nuttier detractors (not you) similarly flooding threads with "he sucks, he's horrible" level arguments.

I don't think proposing a single counter example ("So there's never been a single example of a QB in NFL history who...") is very germaine to the point.  It's far more common (and topical today) to find examples of QB who performed poorly with one system and "meh" wide receivers, who suddenly looked like "all that and a bag of chips" in a friendly offensive system and with a quality WR upgrade.  The guys you mention, Keenum, Foles, and Smith, are all guys who benefited greatly by moving to a system that suited them better and had top-notch WR.  Goff this year would be another example.   Taylor, by both eyeball test and statistically, did better with a different system and with Watkins, Woods, Goodwin, and Clay on the field. 

 

I think it's highly debatable how any of these guys would have done in Dennison's system with the WR we actually had on the field in any one game during 2018.  If you don't, we just disagree, that's all.

Is that saying I think Taylor = Goff, Keenum, Foles, and Smith, No, please don't even go there.  The point is good WR and a system that works make many QB look better, not that it's entirely transformational.

 

 

There's nothing wrong with reduction to the absurd when the point you're attacking is itself absurd. 

 

The reason reduction to the absurd works on phrases like "anyone but Tyrod" is because it's absurd ... on the face of it. They don't mean "anyone but Tyrod." It's shorthand and a lot smoother than, "Not Tyrod." That's what they meant. And for good reason. They don't mean anyone. Don't like Beyonce? Fine, they don't mean Taylor Swift. And they don't mean Manuel or Blaine Gabbert or Beatherd. The idea's ridiculous.

 

But honestly, I would rather see Siemian than Tyrod. For three reasons. First, as has been pointed out again and again, he doesn't fit what McDermott is trying to do. So if we used him again we'd see yet another year of the "why don't they change the playbook for Tyrod's sake to utilize him better" crap. And that's NOT what you want to be doing for a bridge QB. A bridge QB should, among other things, be able to use the playbook they've installed for the future, so the whole offensive unit can start internalizing it. And second, Siemian is going into his fourth year. He still might make a leap. Time's growing short for him, but going into his eighth year we know what Tyrod is. And third, Siemian wouldn't cost us $23 mill against the cap for one year of his services in 2018.

 

For what feels like the billionth time, our head coach has laid out one thing that he wants from his QB. Not a list of seventeen characteristics or a wide-ranging skillset or a sweeping manifesto.

 

ONE THING. One requirement. He should be able to function well from the pocket.

 

And Tyrod does NOT check the box on their one requirement. 

 

So I'm there. Not Tyrod! A nice guy. A hard worker. Not who they should want. Bring in a guy who can work the playbook they want to use. 

 

And Taylor has been, by eyeball and by statistics, basically the same QB since about game nine of his first year here, but particularly the last two years. Up and down. Very inconsistent. But overall below average. And again, unable to consistently operate from the pocket. Yeah, a better surrounding cast would make him better. But not good enough. Does not fulfill their one requirement.

Edited February 9, 2018 by Thurman#1