Tyrod wants to “Continue to be accurate..”

[Lfod]

28 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Seriously?  Here.  Now what did we just prove, really?

 

 

 

I really wasn't trying to prove anything. In fact I have learned a few things from you. You know more about football then I do. I just thought you could get into more detail. Point out some details or flaws in the video. I just tossed out some motivation.

 

I think both sides of the divide on Taylor make good points. It makes a better read for me when people put more details in. So I'm selfish I guess and was asking for a bit more.

Edited February 8, 2018 by Lfod

[BillsFanForever19]

14 hours ago, Bill Murray said:

Well he is the all time leading Bills passer for completion percentage, so that says something about accuracy (and about previous Bills QBs).  

 

I know this was 5 pages ago - but this statement couldn't be anymore wrong.

 

A guy could throw 100% of his passes two feet in front of him and as long as the RB doesn't drop it; he'd have 100% completion percentage. Which, honestly, isn't far off from what Taylor does.

 

Completion percentage has ZERO barring on accuracy.

[Jay_Fixit]

44 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

 

Lotta' guys on that list who didn't have clearly better seasons than Tyrod........in fact, clearly worse is more accurate.

 

Mentioned it in other threads but one is Matt Ryan.......20 TD and 17 turnovers versus Tyrod's 18 TD and 6 turnovers.

 

Jameis Winston didn't have a better year than Tyrod......not even close ......20 TD 18 turnovers.

 

Derek Carr 23 TD and 16 turnovers........5 more TD's and 10 more turnovers?   That's better?  Really?

 

And you know what?    Tyrod beat all of those guys head to head.

 

McCown is debatable........he had a career year........but he turned the ball over a lot and was fortunate not to lose more of his incredibly bad 11 fumbles.

 

Dalton and Prescott produced 7-10 more TD's.....but neither had big TD totals...... and both had 10 more turnovers than Taylor.   At WORST they were a wash with TT impact.

 

I get that some of you don't follow other teams but this wasn't exactly the year of the QB.

 

Since 2015 the number of 30 TD passers has dropped from 11 down to just 3 this year.

 

Taylor's decline in TD production was due to a combination of factors........issues that some of the guys I mentioned didn't have.......like not having talent at WR or familiarity with his WR or being in an entirely new and unfavorable scheme.........but to some extent most passers saw a decline in their numbers.

This post is full of “yikes.”

[BADOLBILZ]

5 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

I know this was 5 pages ago - but this statement couldn't be anymore wrong.

 

A guy could throw 100% of his passes two feet in front of him and as long as the RB doesn't drop it; he'd have 100% completion percentage. Which, honestly, isn't far off from what Taylor does.

 

Completion percentage has ZERO barring on accuracy.

 

 

The complaints about where Taylor throws have been a moving goal post..........first it was said that he couldn't throw over the middle.........then he didn't throw to RB's enough..........then he does those things in a new scheme were it's necessary and now the complaint is that all he does is check the ball down.    He lead the NFL's top big play offense in 2015 AND 2016........but somehow that doesn't matter........he's Captain Checkdown.

 

As I've tried to point out..........while the NFL is a passing league still.......there has been a trend the past couple of years where QB's aren't putting up numbers like in the recent past.   

 

2015 there were 11 QB's who threw for 30 or more TD's..........in 2016 a year when the Bills big plays in the passing game declined due mostly to Watkins injury the number of 30 TD passers fell to 5.     And this year that number fell all the way down to just 3.   From 11 down to 3 in two seasons.   So most QB's are seeing drops in production.   Taylor was down this year........and much of it was due to receiver, scheme, play calling issues.........but in general the passing game was down in the NFL.    

 

 

[Jay_Fixit]

2 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

It's actually full of facts. 

 

 

It’s full of opinion as to what “better season” means. And the use of “turnovers” as a metric is obtuse. Especially without context. When you don’t move the football, like Tyrod doesn’t, that can be just as costly as these “turnovers” mentioned in that post.

 

It’s a very bad post.

Edited February 8, 2018 by Jay_Fixit

[John from Riverside]

2 minutes ago, Jay_Fixit said:

It’s full of opinion as to what “better season” means. And the use of “turnovers” as a metric is obtuse. Especially without context. When you don’t move the football, like Tyrod doesn’t, that can be just as costly as these “turnovers” mentioned in that post.

 

It’s a very bad post.

"its full of opinion"

"its a very bad post"

LOL if you dont see the irony.........

[Hapless Bills Fan]

42 minutes ago, Lfod said:

I really wasn't trying to prove anything. In fact I have learned a few things from you. You know more about football then I do. I just thought you could get into more detail. Point out some details or flaws in the video. I just tossed out some motivation.

 

I think both sides of the divide on Taylor make good points. It makes a better read for me when people put more details in. So I'm selfish I guess and was asking for a bit more.

 

Fair enough, though asking directly does have it's points And thanks for the kind words.

 

The "lowlights" video highlights some missed throws that were strengths of Tyrod's game last year, for example, the long bomb.  Since he was very good at those in 2015 and 2016, I think their absence from his game this year has more to do with other offensive changes (OL, turnover in the WR corps) than a weakness of Tyrods.  And Long Bombs are a low percentage throw from any QB.

 

The second and third plays, Tyrod is hit as he throws.  No QB is accurate when he's hit as he throws, the best you can hope for is "no pick"

 

Many of the clips in that film are so distant and from such an angle, that it's hard to tell what's going on.  There are some throws where Tyrod was stepping up close to a defender as he threw, and it's impossible to tell if the ball was deflected.

 

There are throws in that highlight reel where there's a play to be made, and Tyrod misses a high-percentage throw he should make.  But since he's made those throws in previous years, we don't know what's going on.  Did the WR run a different route than Tyrod expected, or in a different way than Tyrod expected that put him a couple feet off?  And if so, who made the error, Tyrod or the WR?  etc.  Obviously since overall Tyrod's completion percentage is quite good, he doesn't uniformly miss all those throws.

 

Tyrod has limitations and flaws as a QB, possibly fatal limitations - such as failing to step up into available passing lanes, missing open throws over the middle - and also may be slow to build rapport and trust with WR.  But that video doesn't do a good job of showing his real limitations.

Edited February 8, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan

[Freddie's Dead]

Continue?  You have to start before you can continue.

[Jay_Fixit]

 

4 minutes ago, John from Hemet said:

"its full of opinion"

"its a very bad post"

LOL if you dont see the irony.........

I guess you need a quick lesson as to what irony means.

Edited February 8, 2018 by Jay_Fixit

[John from Riverside]

Just now, Jay_Fixit said:

 

I guess you need a quick lesson as to what irony means.

Maybe you can give me your opinion on it.....lol

[Lfod]

1 hour ago, PIZ said:

 

 

.........or the Saint game (11/12) or Pats game (12/3).  I seriously can't believe people think Tyrod Taylor is not the problem.

I would definitely think he is at least part of the problem. At what point in the game do you take some risks if the current score is a whopping 3 points on the score board?

 

Playoffs are special. It is the kind of game you hold nothing back. It's the kind of game you might need to take a few risks and hope on a miracle. Tyrod was gonna play it safe to the very end and that's my real complaint. I would of rather seen him try and fail then just play it safe and fail.

 

 

Edited February 8, 2018 by Lfod

[Teddy KGB]

It’s the” dennisons fault”all stars all in one place ???☠️☠️☠️

 

Truly amazing.  

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

33 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

I know this was 5 pages ago - but this statement couldn't be anymore wrong.

A guy could throw 100% of his passes two feet in front of him and as long as the RB doesn't drop it; he'd have 100% completion percentage. Which, honestly, isn't far off from what Taylor does.

Completion percentage has ZERO barring on accuracy.

 

That's really not defensible as a statement either.  Completion percentage does require accuracy, but accuracy is more than completion percentage.

And no, a guy doesn't throw for 6.7 ypa or 10.6 ypc (This season, and the lowest for his 3 years as starter) if he's throwing 100% of his passes 2 feet in front of him.  That's hyperbole.

 

[xRUSHx]

22 minutes ago, Jay_Fixit said:

It’s full of opinion as to what “better season” means. And the use of “turnovers” as a metric is obtuse. Especially without context. When you don’t move the football, like Tyrod doesn’t, that can be just as costly as these “turnovers” mentioned in that post.

 

It’s a very bad post.

Right on man,

It is like saying well Tyrod did not turnover the ball in said drive even though the team punted on said drive. It is still a turnover to the other team just not in the same terms.

11 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said:

It’s the” dennisons fault”all stars all in one place ???☠️☠️☠️

 

Truly amazing.  

 

COT still working hard at preaching reason of Tyrod fail. Glory B it was everyone else

[Bill Murray]

51 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

I know this was 5 pages ago - but this statement couldn't be anymore wrong.

 

A guy could throw 100% of his passes two feet in front of him and as long as the RB doesn't drop it; he'd have 100% completion percentage. Which, honestly, isn't far off from what Taylor does.

 

Completion percentage has ZERO barring on accuracy.

 

well given this statement is a fact, it cant be wrong.  it may be misguided, but it isnt a wrong statement.  

[BillsFanForever19]

12 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

That's really not defensible as a statement either.  Completion percentage does require accuracy, but accuracy is more than completion percentage.

And no, a guy doesn't throw for 6.7 ypa or 10.6 ypc (This season, and the lowest for his 3 years as starter) if he's throwing 100% of his passes 2 feet in front of him.  That's hyperbole.

 

 

I wasn't saying that's what he does on EVERY play. What I was saying was that a QB could have 100% completion pct by dumping it off on every single play. And as such, that stat is pretty flawed. Especially if you're trying to say it pertains to a throwers accuracy.

 

No, Tyrod doesn't dump off every play. But I think you'd be fooling yourself if you thought that a lot of those "passes" weren't Shady picking up chunks after the touch. And let's be honest - he's not throwing the ball unless a guy is sitting in his route and staring at him. So his completion percentage and lack of INT's is of no surprise and worth very little to me.

Edited February 8, 2018 by BillsFanForever19

[Worstcaseontario]

Id rather have jamarcus russel than TT at this point

[Lfod]

41 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Fair enough, though asking directly does have it's points And thanks for the kind words.

 

The "lowlights" video highlights some missed throws that were strengths of Tyrod's game last year, for example, the long bomb.  Since he was very good at those in 2015 and 2016, I think their absence from his game this year has more to do with other offensive changes (OL, turnover in the WR corps) than a weakness of Tyrods.  And Long Bombs are a low percentage throw from any QB.

 

The second and third plays, Tyrod is hit as he throws.  No QB is accurate when he's hit as he throws, the best you can hope for is "no pick"

 

Many of the clips in that film are so distant and from such an angle, that it's hard to tell what's going on.  There are some throws where Tyrod was stepping up close to a defender as he threw, and it's impossible to tell if the ball was deflected.

 

There are throws in that highlight reel where there's a play to be made, and Tyrod misses a high-percentage throw he should make.  But since he's made those throws in previous years, we don't know what's going on.  Did the WR run a different route than Tyrod expected, or in a different way than Tyrod expected that put him a couple feet off?  And if so, who made the error, Tyrod or the WR?  etc.  Obviously since overall Tyrod's completion percentage is quite good, he doesn't uniformly miss all those throws.

 

Tyrod has limitations and flaws as a QB, possibly fatal limitations - such as failing to step up into available passing lanes, missing open throws over the middle - and also may be slow to build rapport and trust with WR.  But that video doesn't do a good job of showing his real limitations.

That is actually what I thought of the video. It wasn't very clear. It didn't do the greatest job at presentation. The text that would appear at the bottom flashed so quick that I didn't get a chance to read it to know what I was looking for. When I did get to read it, the video never went into anymore detail about it. 

 

I would of appreciated if it slowed the clips down and offered more of an explanation. As just a regular fan I need more detail about what it is about the footwork that's incorrect. What about his pocket presence was not correct. I want the author of the video to explain how it was incorrect and give me details and examples of the proper way it's done.

 

I would have to agree that the video could have been done a lot better. Especially for the more casual fan to really sink his teeth in and learn some things. I'll give Tyrod some credit though. They really didn't do him many favors besides bring in Kelvin Benjamin mid season. 

 

My only real complaint is Tyrod is to careful if that makes sense. Like I want Tyrod to get Peterman stupid if your down by a score in the fourth quarter and times running out. 

Edited February 8, 2018 by Lfod

[GoBills808]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

 

Lotta' guys on that list who didn't have clearly better seasons than Tyrod........in fact, clearly worse is more accurate.

 

Mentioned it in other threads but one is Matt Ryan.......20 TD and 17 turnovers versus Tyrod's 18 TD and 6 turnovers.

 

Jameis Winston didn't have a better year than Tyrod......not even close ......20 TD 18 turnovers.

 

Derek Carr 23 TD and 16 turnovers........5 more TD's and 10 more turnovers?   That's better?  Really?

 

And you know what?    Tyrod beat all of those guys head to head.

 

McCown is debatable........he had a career year........but he turned the ball over a lot and was fortunate not to lose more of his incredibly bad 11 fumbles.

 

Dalton and Prescott produced 7-10 more TD's.....but neither had big TD totals...... and both had 10 more turnovers than Taylor.   At WORST they were a wash with TT impact.

 

I get that some of you don't follow other teams but this wasn't exactly the year of the QB.

 

Since 2015 the number of 30 TD passers has dropped from 11 down to just 3 this year.

 

Taylor's decline in TD production was due to a combination of factors........issues that some of the guys I mentioned didn't have.......like not having talent at WR or familiarity with his WR or being in an entirely new and unfavorable scheme.........but to some extent most passers saw a decline in their numbers.

This post would be relevant if 'amount of turnovers' was the sole factor in determining QB performance. Since it isn't...it isn't.

[BADOLBILZ]

35 minutes ago, Jay_Fixit said:

It’s full of opinion as to what “better season” means. And the use of “turnovers” as a metric is obtuse. Especially without context.

 

It’s a very bad post.

 

Next to the final score the most important stat in the NFL is turnover differential.

 

It's not debatable........as much as football changes the impact of that stat simply does not.

 

And as such the first job of all QB's is do their part and take care of the football.

 

Interceptions and lost fumbles by the QB are immensely and directly impactful on the team.

 

Not sure what other context you need but that applies to all stats.

 

Like for instance 2 of Taylors 4 interceptions where chest-to-chin high throws that went thru Charles Clay's hands,  off his body and to the defender.   

 

Taylor's ball security isn't a fluke.......he is the lowest interception % passer in NFL history.

 

Like it or not trading TD passes 1 for 1 with turnovers is not good business...........so give me 2-5 less TD passes and 10 less turnovers any day.    That's an easy one.