SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted February 10, 2018 Posted February 10, 2018 (edited) 17 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: No, he doesn't. He's lower mid-tier, somewhere between 16 and 20 depending on what you value. For the record, I hate "he sucks/he's great" binaries. I don't expect him to be the Bills QB next year, and the team has to do better at the position. But saying simply that "he sucks" just drags down the level of debate and analysis in a thread like this, which is ostensibly about his accuracy or lack thereof. We have three years of good evidence saying that he's average in the accuracy department. Picking out one game and highlighting a 45 percent accurate rate -- against the NFL's #1 defense via DVOA on the road -- is the definition of cherry picking. Of course selecting certain areas to critique or boast on is cherry picking. Ying and yang. Some boast only good others post only bad. One bad bad day can be excused. 3 bad days with a QB rating under 45 should be highlighted. We can blame the lack of a good game plan on the OC but does a bad plan mean the QB rating will be sub 50? autocorrect edit Edited February 10, 2018 by ShadyBillsFan
Jay_Fixit Posted February 10, 2018 Posted February 10, 2018 48 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: No, he doesn't. He's lower mid-tier, somewhere between 16 and 20 depending on what you value. For the record, I hate "he sucks/he's great" binaries. I don't expect him to be the Bills QB next year, and the team has to do better at the position. But saying simply that "he sucks" just drags down the level of debate and analysis in a thread like this, which is ostensibly about his accuracy or lack thereof. We have three years of good evidence saying that he's average in the accuracy department. Picking out one game and highlighting a 45 percent accurate rate -- against the NFL's #1 defense via DVOA on the road -- is the definition of cherry picking. 22-26
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 10, 2018 Posted February 10, 2018 (edited) 11 hours ago, TallskiWallski83 said: I am still not convinced any of our offensive coordinators have tapped into tyrod Taylor's full potential as a QB. I'm not talking about him making throws over the middle. I'm talking about a complete system that focuses on his speed, athleticism as a runner and his deep ball accuracy. I think a coach who could maximize his potential, paired with a defense much like what Jax has, has the potential to win a Superbowl I believe that was the plan when Roman brought him in, and it worked decently in 2015/2016 esp. when he had good WR targets including WR with the burner speed to sync up with his deep ball. I'm not sure what more an OC could do. You can't have your QB be too much of a runner these days or a nasty thug defense (I say that in a respectful way) like Jax will do like they did in the playoffs and send your RB/QB home with concussion. The other thing to remember is, a defense much like what Jax has totally failed to shut Brady** down and mail him home. Until teams find a solution to do that reliably, you can get into the playoffs with the offense you describe but you're not going to have the potential to win a superbowl. You need a guy who can get into a shootout, and win it, as Foles did, for that. You also won't contend for the Superbowl consistently because it's very difficult to keep a top, mind-numbing shut down D on the field year after year in this age of salary cap. Much harder to pay (or find) 15 players than 5 or 6 Edited February 10, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan 1
BillsFan130 Posted February 10, 2018 Posted February 10, 2018 57 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: No, he doesn't. He's lower mid-tier, somewhere between 16 and 20 depending on what you value. For the record, I hate "he sucks/he's great" binaries. I don't expect him to be the Bills QB next year, and the team has to do better at the position. But saying simply that "he sucks" just drags down the level of debate and analysis in a thread like this, which is ostensibly about his accuracy or lack thereof. We have three years of good evidence saying that he's average in the accuracy department. Picking out one game and highlighting a 45 percent accurate rate -- against the NFL's #1 defense via DVOA on the road -- is the definition of cherry picking. I agree with you as I definitely don’t think he sucks, but I would put him more in the 22 to 25 range.
Stank_Nasty Posted February 10, 2018 Posted February 10, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, ShadyBillsFan said: Of course selecting certain areas to critique or boast on is cherry picking. Ying and yang. Some boast only good others post only bad. One bad bad day can be excused. 3 bad days with a QB rating under 45 should be highlighted. We can blame the lack of a good game plan on the OC but does a bad plan mean the QB rating will be sub 50? autocorrect edit so we should care about the games with bad qb ratings is what you are saying correct? am I getting that right? for some reason this doesn't jive with me when I've been told by you and others that we should pay no mind to all the games where he's had a good rating. I've been told numerous times that rating means nothing... apparently only the games with good ratings mean nothing? let me get this straight. you'll disregard any game he has a good rating but use the games with bad ratings as examples for your point? that's just really really flawed and 100% agenda driven. but at this point from what ive seen around here, I wouldn't expect anything less. Edited February 10, 2018 by Stank_Nasty
Teddy KGB Posted February 10, 2018 Posted February 10, 2018 2 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said: so we should care about the games with bad qb ratings is what you are saying correct? am I getting that right? for some reason this doesn't jive with me when I've been told by you and others that we should pay no mind to all the games where he's had a good rating..... let me get this straight. you'll disregard any game he has a good rating but use the games with bad ratings as examples for your point? that's just really really flawed. but at this point from what ive seen around here, I wouldn't expect anything less. http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/passing/seasontype/2
Stank_Nasty Posted February 10, 2018 Posted February 10, 2018 Just now, Teddy KGB said: http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/passing/seasontype/2 oh look. the worst poster on the board dipped into the passing yard well one more time....... who could have predicted that! too bad that has nothing to do with what I was asking shady about.... another awful moment in the teddy posting timeline. at least you are reliable.
Teddy KGB Posted February 10, 2018 Posted February 10, 2018 37 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said: oh look. the worst poster on the board dipped into the passing yard well one more time....... who could have predicted that! too bad that has nothing to do with what I was asking shady about.... another awful moment in the teddy posting timeline. at least you are reliable. K, a summary of the games combined in one simple place doesn’t help you ??♂️???. Morning sweetie.
Stank_Nasty Posted February 10, 2018 Posted February 10, 2018 1 minute ago, Teddy KGB said: K, a summary of the games combined in one simple place doesn’t help you ??♂️???. Morning sweetie. again... what does it have to do with what I asked shady?
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted February 10, 2018 Posted February 10, 2018 29 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said: so we should care about the games with bad qb ratings is what you are saying correct? am I getting that right? for some reason this doesn't jive with me when I've been told by you and others that we should pay no mind to all the games where he's had a good rating. I've been told numerous times that rating means nothing... apparently only the games with good ratings mean nothing? let me get this straight. you'll disregard any game he has a good rating but use the games with bad ratings as examples for your point? that's just really really flawed and 100% agenda driven. but at this point from what ive seen around here, I wouldn't expect anything less. Not at all. We need to look at good and bad and see how it balances out. It is my opinion that the bad does override the good in key situations. If 15 of 20 and 3 points is a good rating and we lose we by 14 is that really good? What of 28 of 35 and a 3 to 7 point loss? (What is it?) 3 or 4 games out of 16 where he passes for over 30 times in 3 seasons and the result is a loss. Is that good or bad? Or do we blame the defense? Extending plays is a common attribute given TT but what exactly does that mean? Scrambling to avoid a sack and a throwaway or a short pass that fails to get a 1st down which may happen more often than a few deeper balls to keep a drive alive? You’ve seen me compliment TT and commented that it confused you seeing me do so. Every time I jumped on the TT bandwagon things went south. I did want to see TT successeed and be the QB of the future but that time has passed.
Stank_Nasty Posted February 10, 2018 Posted February 10, 2018 2 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said: Not at all. We need to look at good and bad and see how it balances out. It is my opinion that the bad does override the good in key situations. If 15 of 20 and 3 points is a good rating and we lose we by 14 is that really good? What of 28 of 35 and a 3 to 7 point loss? (What is it?) 3 or 4 games out of 16 where he passes for over 30 times in 3 seasons and the result is a loss. Is that good or bad? Or do we blame the defense? Extending plays is a common attribute given TT but what exactly does that mean? Scrambling to avoid a sack and a throwaway or a short pass that fails to get a 1st down which may happen more often than a few deeper balls to keep a drive alive? You’ve seen me compliment TT and commented that it confused you seeing me do so. Every time I jumped on the TT bandwagon things went south. I did want to see TT successeed and be the QB of the future but that time has passed. we need to move on from tyrod..... but its odd that I see you'll use games with a bad rating as an example of that but go on to say that rating/efficiency doesn't mean much of anything when its used in an argument for the positives on taylor. I mean.... come on man..... and any minute now teddy is gonna respond to this post with a passing yd ranking..... just wait for it.
Teddy KGB Posted February 10, 2018 Posted February 10, 2018 10 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said: again... what does it have to do with what I asked shady? Americans struggle with Math and Science.
Stank_Nasty Posted February 10, 2018 Posted February 10, 2018 4 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said: Americans struggle with Math and Science. there's some sort of struggle going on here. that's for sure.
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted February 10, 2018 Posted February 10, 2018 5 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said: we need to move on from tyrod..... but its odd that I see you'll use games with a bad rating as an example of that but go on to say that rating/efficiency doesn't mean much of anything when its used in an argument for the positives on taylor. I mean.... come on man..... and any minute now teddy is gonna respond to this post with a passing yd ranking..... just wait for it. Once I said I wanted to see TT pass for 300 ypg and it became the biggest meme here. It’s kind of funny but just yesterday someone posted Jimmy G deserves his $27 mil because he averaged 300 ypg. If that person is a TT fan is that a double standard? 500 passing yards can be had in a game with a loss and 150 passing yard can win games. Which stat is better? 1
JaCrispy Posted February 10, 2018 Posted February 10, 2018 2 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said: Once I said I wanted to see TT pass for 300 ypg and it became the biggest meme here. It’s kind of funny but just yesterday someone posted Jimmy G deserves his $27 mil because he averaged 300 ypg. If that person is a TT fan is that a double standard? 500 passing yards can be had in a game with a loss and 150 passing yard can win games. Which stat is better? I’m going with 500 yards because it means you can comeback at any time, even when the rest of your team is crappy...sure, you want the win, but when you have that kind of production, you are always confident you can win...150 yards means you had to have everything else go just right for victory...and if it doesnt150 yards probably means your are not going to be able to comeback, and it gives me zero confidence in winning any given game. 1
Stank_Nasty Posted February 10, 2018 Posted February 10, 2018 4 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said: Once I said I wanted to see TT pass for 300 ypg and it became the biggest meme here. It’s kind of funny but just yesterday someone posted Jimmy G deserves his $27 mil because he averaged 300 ypg. If that person is a TT fan is that a double standard? 500 passing yards can be had in a game with a loss and 150 passing yard can win games. Which stat is better? All the stats need to be factored in. But it was just funny to me that rating means nothing when it’s good and Taylor is just padding stats and not taking risks but when his rating is bad we’ll go ahead and use it to prove a point. Believe it or not I actually agree Taylor’s rating has been padded a bit by his tentative play. Which is why I rarely use it in any Taylor argument. But I would like to see some consistency from people with strong opinions on the matter. If you discredit his good rated games naturally you shouldn’t put much stock in the bad ones either. Correct? There are are double standards around here on both sides. This just happened to be the one I saw this morning as I popped in the forum in my office. 1 minute ago, JaCrispy said: I’m going with 500 yards because it means you can comeback at any time, even when the rest of your team is crappy...sure, you want the win, but when you have that kind of production, you are always confident you can win...150 yards means you had to have everything else go just right for victory...and if it doesnt150 yards probably means your are not going to be able to comeback, and it gives me zero confidence in winning any given game. It’s never this black and white. But go ahead and take all context out and make a blanket statement like this. Makes sense
JaCrispy Posted February 10, 2018 Posted February 10, 2018 2 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said: All the stats need to be factored in. But it was just funny to me that rating means nothing when it’s good and Taylor is just padding stats and not taking risks but when his rating is bad we’ll go ahead and use it to prove a point. Believe it or not I actually agree Taylor’s rating has been padded a bit by his tentative play. Which is why I rarely use it in any Taylor argument. But I would like to see some consistency from people with strong opinions on the matter. If you discredit his good rated games naturally you shouldn’t put much stock in the bad ones either. Correct? There are are double standards around here on both sides. This just happened to be the one I saw this morning as I popped in the forum in my office. It’s never this black and white. But go ahead and take all context out and make a blanket statement like this. Makes sense Easy, bud...you asked a question and I was just responding...if you aren’t interested in what others have to say, maybe you shouldn’t ask. 1
Stank_Nasty Posted February 10, 2018 Posted February 10, 2018 1 minute ago, JaCrispy said: Easy, bud...you asked a question and I was just responding...if you aren’t interested in what others have to say, maybe you shouldn’t ask. I didn’t ask that question. Shady did. And then I put in my 2 cents about what you said. If you are gonna lay down blanket statements I’m gonna point out they are missing context.
DaBillsFanSince1973 Posted February 10, 2018 Posted February 10, 2018 (edited) passing yards don't matter. accurate passing doesn't matter. bad games don't matter. sustaining drives doesn't matter. reading a defense doesn't matter. scoring more than 3 points doesn't matter. but hey, keeping those ints down and running around while trying to avoid sacks matter while gaining the occasional first down. some want better, some, it doesn't matter. Edited February 10, 2018 by DaBillsFanSince1973 4
Stank_Nasty Posted February 10, 2018 Posted February 10, 2018 2 minutes ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said: passing yards don't matter. accurate passing doesn't matter. bad games don't matter. sustaining drives doesn't matter. reading a defense doesn't matter. scoring more than 3 points doesn't matter. but hey, keeping those ints down and running around while trying to avoid sacks matter while gaining the occasional first down matters. some want better, some, it doesn't matter. Right. That sums it up. Really that simple isn’t it? This is a joke of a post. Great job. Keep it up.
Recommended Posts