Kirby Jackson Posted February 5, 2018 Posted February 5, 2018 3 minutes ago, jmc12290 said: Irony alert! Sleep it off. So were they top 10 in offensive points in 2015 or not?
Samwell Tarly Posted February 5, 2018 Posted February 5, 2018 Best QB of the drought? Isn't this a little like asking what the best Sharknado movie was?
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted February 5, 2018 Posted February 5, 2018 10 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: So were they top 10 in offensive points in 2015 or not? You keep bringing this up, but ignoring the obvious failure of the PASSING offense in those years. Dude, give it up. He's BAD.
Rochesterfan Posted February 5, 2018 Posted February 5, 2018 In terms of QB play - Give me Bledsoe. He was by far the best QB we had. If we are truly looking at QB play - then Orton and maybe Fitz top TT. If you are looking at team offense then TT passes Fitz for sure and he and Orton sit close with TT probably moving to 2nd because he did it longer. TT has been the QB of some top scoring and higher DVOA offenses, but for 3 years with him at the helm - the offense goes as the running game goes. We had the top rushing attack 2 years out of 3 and the third year it was top 6. The passing attack which is what most QB are measured on has been bottom 5 on average throughout and bottom 3 twice. TT does have wins to his credit also. The real question is how you want to judge this position during the drought. There are many different ways and therefore many different opinions and each person can be looking at something different and get a different outcome. If I need a drive through the air late to win a game - Bledsoe and Orton come way before TT. If I have a lead and need to milk a 4th quarter - TT is better than the others because he does not make mistakes and can run. Fitz is perfect if you are looking for that late drive that ends in an Int. For me me out of the QB position - I want a guy that can throw the ball and make plays and TT has had plenty of talent - significantly more than Orton or Fitz- and has done less in the passing game therefore for me the order goes: Bledsoe, Orton, then TT and Fitz at 3 and 4. There are easy arguments to make to shift people up or down based upon your particular slant.
Kirby Jackson Posted February 5, 2018 Posted February 5, 2018 40 minutes ago, joesixpack said: You keep bringing this up, but ignoring the obvious failure of the PASSING offense in those years. Dude, give it up. He's BAD. I don’t care about “passing offense” I care about points!! The Eagles won the Super Bowl, the Patriots threw for more yards. Which is better?
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted February 5, 2018 Posted February 5, 2018 Just now, Kirby Jackson said: I don’t care about “passing offense” I care about points!! The Eagles won the Super Bowl, the Patriots threw for more yards. Which is better? the eagles passed for how many touchdowns? PASSING MATTERS.
Kirby Jackson Posted February 5, 2018 Posted February 5, 2018 6 minutes ago, joesixpack said: the eagles passed for how many touchdowns? PASSING MATTERS. Scoring matters
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted February 5, 2018 Posted February 5, 2018 3 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: Scoring matters You're hopeless.
Kirby Jackson Posted February 5, 2018 Posted February 5, 2018 8 minutes ago, joesixpack said: You're hopeless. You disagree that points are the most important thing and I’m the one that’s hopeless?!?
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted February 5, 2018 Posted February 5, 2018 Just now, Kirby Jackson said: You disagree that points are the most important thing and I’m the one that’s hopeless?!? I disagree that TT was the REASON for those points. They were the #1 rushing team in the league, that team was Shady, Shady and more Shady. TT was a bit player, and a lousy QB that season. Can you honestly say that you believe that TT could have competed in a game last night? If so, you really are an idiot.
Kirby Jackson Posted February 5, 2018 Posted February 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, joesixpack said: I disagree that TT was the REASON for those points. They were the #1 rushing team in the league, that team was Shady, Shady and more Shady. TT was a bit player, and a lousy QB that season. Can you honestly say that you believe that TT could have competed in a game last night? If so, you really are an idiot. So the QB wasn’t responsible for the points when they finished in the top 10 even though he scored the most points?
BringBackOrton Posted February 5, 2018 Posted February 5, 2018 3 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said: So were they top 10 in offensive points in 2015 or not? No dude. They weren't. Thanks for playing.
Kirby Jackson Posted February 5, 2018 Posted February 5, 2018 1 minute ago, jmc12290 said: No dude. They weren't. Thanks for playing. I saw 12th in total points but they were only 8 points behind 10th. I didn’t know how many were defensive or ST points. I dont have the desire to do the research but if you have it I’d like to read it.
BringBackOrton Posted February 5, 2018 Posted February 5, 2018 6 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said: I saw 12th in total points but they were only 8 points behind 10th. I didn’t know how many were defensive or ST points. I dont have the desire to do the research but if you have it I’d like to read it. You'd have to eliminate every defensive/ST TD in the league. And then what do you do about a pick on the opposing 30 that results in a 3 play and FG series? Is that truly "offensive" points? No thanks. You wanna say they were top 10, do the research and prove it. Otherwise, they were 12th.
Kirby Jackson Posted February 5, 2018 Posted February 5, 2018 5 minutes ago, jmc12290 said: You'd have to eliminate every defensive/ST TD in the league. And then what do you do about a pick on the opposing 30 that results in a 3 play and FG series? Is that truly "offensive" points? No thanks. You wanna say they were top 10, do the research and prove it. Otherwise, they were 12th. So you said that my claim was wrong but in reality you don’t know. Basically you don’t know that the offense wasn’t top 10 in scoring? I’m pretty sure that they were and remember reading it. I will try to google it when I get out of this high level business meeting.
BADOLBILZ Posted February 5, 2018 Posted February 5, 2018 3 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: So you said that my claim was wrong but in reality you don’t know. Basically you don’t know that the offense wasn’t top 10 in scoring? I’m pretty sure that they were and remember reading it. I will try to google it when I get out of this high level business meeting. They were 7th prior to Tyrod's week 16 benching. Also lead the NFL in big plays in both 2015 and 2016.
dave mcbride Posted February 5, 2018 Posted February 5, 2018 On 2/4/2018 at 4:16 PM, Kirby Jackson said: It’s Tyrod and it’s not all that close. With that being said he doesn’t belong on th poll because he played in a playoff game for the Bills. With that being said, Orton was probably next but only played part of a year. If the guys with a decent number of starts it was Fitz. Also, anyone that says Bledsoe, take out his first few games and look at what he did. He was worse than Losman and Edwards (or same league anyways). After his first 8 games, Bledsoe was HORRIBLE. In his final 2.5 seasons, his passer rating was under 75. That is hard to do unless you're really bad. 17 minutes ago, jmc12290 said: You'd have to eliminate every defensive/ST TD in the league. And then what do you do about a pick on the opposing 30 that results in a 3 play and FG series? Is that truly "offensive" points? No thanks. You wanna say they were top 10, do the research and prove it. Otherwise, they were 12th. Taylor didn't play in the final game. They were 7th in points after week 16. It's an open and shut case and not debatable. 6 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said: I saw 12th in total points but they were only 8 points behind 10th. I didn’t know how many were defensive or ST points. I dont have the desire to do the research but if you have it I’d like to read it. They had very few defensive points in 2016. They had zero ST points and two TDs (Nickell Roby Coleman v the Rams and Aaron Williams v AZ). They were 23rd in the league in generating turnovers too. 1
BADOLBILZ Posted February 5, 2018 Posted February 5, 2018 3 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: After his first 8 games, Bledsoe was HORRIBLE. In his final 2.5 seasons, his passer rating was under 75. That is hard to do unless you're really bad. Taylor didn't play in the final game. They were 7th in points after week 16. It's an open and shut case and not debatable. Laughable of anyone to think Bledsoe was better than Taylor has been but that is the climate we are in.
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted February 5, 2018 Posted February 5, 2018 (edited) 9 hours ago, Rochesterfan said: In terms of QB play - Give me Bledsoe. He was by far the best QB we had. If we are truly looking at QB play - then Orton and maybe Fitz top TT. If you are looking at team offense then TT passes Fitz for sure and he and Orton sit close with TT probably moving to 2nd because he did it longer. TT has been the QB of some top scoring and higher DVOA offenses, but for 3 years with him at the helm - the offense goes as the running game goes. We had the top rushing attack 2 years out of 3 and the third year it was top 6. The passing attack which is what most QB are measured on has been bottom 5 on average throughout and bottom 3 twice. TT does have wins to his credit also. The real question is how you want to judge this position during the drought. There are many different ways and therefore many different opinions and each person can be looking at something different and get a different outcome. If I need a drive through the air late to win a game - Bledsoe and Orton come way before TT. If I have a lead and need to milk a 4th quarter - TT is better than the others because he does not make mistakes and can run. Fitz is perfect if you are looking for that late drive that ends in an Int. For me me out of the QB position - I want a guy that can throw the ball and make plays and TT has had plenty of talent - significantly more than Orton or Fitz- and has done less in the passing game therefore for me the order goes: Bledsoe, Orton, then TT and Fitz at 3 and 4. There are easy arguments to make to shift people up or down based upon your particular slant. ...damn good assessment as usual ROCH.....for discussion, put aside the "in depth analyses (COUGH)" offered up as in "our WR's and/or TE's suck" offered up as justification.....who do I want under center with 2:28 on the clock, down by seven in the 4th that can execute the 2 minute drill for me and tie this bad boy up?......to me, that is a true test of the position that I can readily rely on (win some, lose some).......and YOUR list fits IMO........... Edited February 5, 2018 by OldTimeAFLGuy
dave mcbride Posted February 5, 2018 Posted February 5, 2018 (edited) 44 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: Laughable of anyone to think Bledsoe was better than Taylor has been but that is the climate we are in. It is truly laughable. It almost makes you think that anyone claiming such never watched the games. Bledsoe's performance in 2003 was one of the worst in team history. He was a qb who was entirely reliant on having an elite receiver, and when Moulds went down and later came back gimpy, he couldn't overcome it. That team had seven games in which they scored 10 points or under - and this is after they scored 69 points in the first two games. Say what you will about Taylor, but his receiving corps was even worse than the Bills' corps in 2003, but he at least maintained his league average 89-90 passer rating. The Bills had 3 games with 10 or less points not including the playoff game. In 03, Bledsoe was sacked 49 times, had 11 TD passes, 12 INTs, and fifteen-count-'em-fifteen fumbles. Edited February 5, 2018 by dave mcbride 1 2
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