Tyrod Wants to Stay with the Bills, but Won't Take Another Pay Cut

[dave mcbride]

5 hours ago, jmc12290 said:

Why did he last year?

But you're good at your job.

Weak. Do better. This is a hardcore site (or should be). Kirby brings it all of the time with good analysis. Do the same or refrain from engaging.

Edited February 3, 2018 by dave mcbride

[Thurman#1]

12 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Passing certainly gets more yards than rushing but more can go wrong as well. If a guy has a lane for a 1st down I’d prefer that he run it. It may be conservative and not have the big play potential but it is more likely to convert. I’m also a guy that wants to run power on 2nd and 1. You can run a play action bomb but you might have a holding call. Good things can happen but as things can too. The play in Jax is a great example. There are examples to support all sides of the debate. Good and bad things can happen either way. The trick is maximizing the good while minimizing the bad. That’s not easy.

 

For me coaching is the difference in a game of inches. The Bills outscored their opponents by a lot in 2016. The Bills were outscored by 3 and a half points a game this year. One year they went to the playoffs and one year they were 7-9. You need to be able to execute in close games. Good coaches do and bad ones don’t. McDermott proved to be strong in year 1. 

 

In terms of the Tolbert play I’m not sure what else was out there. I am sure that any play with Tolbert our wide, running a slant is an awful one. That shouldn’t be in the playbook. I honestly think that play had a huge impact on Dennison getting fired. The fact that was even an option at that point was enough to can him.

 

Army is a total extreme which is why I used them. They threw for 361 yards on the season!! I wanted to find a team on the opposite end with a similar record but couldn’t think of one. I guess the old Hawaii teams would fit. In the NFL typically teams are more balanced. The point was just that you can win a variety of ways. The Jags are a run heavy team and the Pats a pass heavy team. They battled to the end to go to the Super Bowl. You can win a variety of ways as long as you make plays at the right time. 

 

 

Yeah, I understand why you used Army. And what I will point out again is that that simply does not happen in the NFL, not since, what, the '30s? "Typically" more balanced? Try "absolutely without exception a great deal more balanced."

 

I'm not sure what else was out there on the Tolbert play either. But unless we know Tyrod had been told not to look at other options, some of the blame goes to execution. Maybe a lot and maybe a little. As I say, I don't love Dennison. But I also suspect that an awful lot of the problem was execution. And I'm not against Tolbert being lined up outside. What kind of matchups does it bring about? Was a DB on Tolbert? Did that create a bad matchup elsewhere? Bad play as run, certainly, but maybe not a bad play as drawn up.

[Bakin]

1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

A lot of times when reporters "know" the answer, the answer they get is actually different. It makes sense to ask the question.

 

But I can see we're close on this issue. If the guy does give the expected answer it does seem like a waste of time.

 

 

 

 

It's 3rd and 6 and a QB doesn't see a guy who's open for a ten yard pass downfield and instead puts up a nice run of 5 yards.

 

It's not stupid. 

 

Yeah, runs count. But if you can't consistently pass, being able to run as a QB doesn't mean much. Sooner and not later you're going to be replaced.

 

I'm no huge fan of Dennison, but the play people always talk about was the R-P option play that turned into a pass into the end zone and an interference penalty. People talk about what a horrible call it was. And then they talk about what a brilliant call it was to call the R-P option play for Foles that he turns into a passing TD. An awful lot of your success as a play caller depends on the execution of your players. Again, I didn't love Dennison or anything, but I also don't think he was as obviously terrible as some think.

 

 

 

 

He didn't carry this team. Didn't carry them anywhere. He was their QB. Nobody can take that away, but the offense wasn't good and what carrying the offense did do was mostly done by the running game.

He was the teams offensive leader. 

He showed up. 

He made some great plays. 

Ultimately he helped to get the team to the playoffs. 

 

Was he great?  No. 

Was he good?  Sometimes. 

 

Deny it all you want. 

Tyrod led our team to the Playoffs. 

And he is a great Buffalo Bill

[Kirby Jackson]

4 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

How does the Glennon deal look now? If they had it to do over again, would they bring in someone cheaper like McCown or Fitz? I think they would. The Bradford deal is a bit better but he was injured again and they might easily let him go figuring it's just too much for what he's likely to be.

 

I agree with you that I think Tyrod's going to get a good deal more than $5 mill a year somewhere. But I'd guess that you're overestimating a bit. My guess is more like $8 - $12 mill per year for two or three year. Guess we'll see.

 

 

 

 

I think you used the wrong verb tense there. When you say, "It has been considered one of the best values in football," you should have used the simple past, not the present perfect. There was a time when some people thought that. That time was exclusively in the past. The fact that nobody thinks that way anymore should be wildly obvious from the fact that he was forced to re-negotiate and take $10 mill less. And is now being asked about it again. And is unlikely to be here even though nobody argues he's the best QB on the roster right now.

 

In any case, if he plays next year and then leaves, it will cost the Bills $23.6 mill on the cap, $18 mill on the 2018 cap and $5.6 mill on the 2019 cap. For one year of Tyrod Taylor. 

 

That isn't one of the best values in football, it just isn't.

It was considered great value for his first 2 seasons here. I think that they move on this year but the $8.6M of dead space makes it a little trickier. If they keep TT it is an $18M cap hit. If they release him $8.6M is dead this year. They’d have to find similar value at about $9.5M or less or they are paying more at the position. I don’t think anyone has a problem doing it for the right guy. As an example though if they give Bradford $15M they will have $23.6M on the cap for QB. If they draft a guy and keep Tyrod they can just take the $5.6M dead in 2019 and move on. 

 

I think that the likiest scenario is that they trade up for a day one starter like Rosen or Baker and get an inexpensive #2. I’ve thrown out Trevor Siemian but there are a bunch of guys that could fit. If they do get a guy that’s not ready day 1 though they’ll need a bridge. That could be about a 10 different guys.

[BringBackOrton]

7 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Weak. Do better. This is a hardcore site (or should be). Kirby brings it all of the time with good analysis. Do the same or refrain from engaging.

It was a joke.

 

Lighten up.

[Kirby Jackson]

36 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Yeah, I understand why you used Army. And what I will point out again is that that simply does not happen in the NFL, not since, what, the '30s? "Typically" more balanced? Try "absolutely without exception a great deal more balanced."

 

I'm not sure what else was out there on the Tolbert play either. But unless we know Tyrod had been told not to look at other options, some of the blame goes to execution. Maybe a lot and maybe a little. As I say, I don't love Dennison. But I also suspect that an awful lot of the problem was execution. And I'm not against Tolbert being lined up outside. What kind of matchups does it bring about? Was a DB on Tolbert? Did that create a bad matchup elsewhere? Bad play as run, certainly, but maybe not a bad play as drawn up.

There is certainly more balance in the NFL. The point remains that you can win being great at running or passing as long as you are competent at the other. The Jags are great at running the ball and the Patriots are great at throwing it. The Saints may be the most balanced team in football and they sucked until they were.

 

In terms of the Tolbert play, anything that has him split wide is a fail. There is nothing that he could have done there on 3rd and goal to contribute. If the concern is did he take up a DB a WR would have been much more effective in doing that. If the question is did they stay in base because of it? Why would a team be in base defense on 3rd and goal from the 17? You would have extra DBs. It was an abomination. 

Edited February 3, 2018 by Kirby Jackson

[Bills Pimpin']

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Again, you are missing the point. It wasn’t one OR the other it was both!! They all count the same. 

 

Saying that you want the passing game to improve is beyond reasonable. Saying that passing is more important than running (or visa versa) isn’t reasonable. They are the same. Army football ran for 4710 yards and threw for 361 yards and won 10 games. All that matters is the score. 

Army...

[Kirby Jackson]

11 minutes ago, Bills Pimpin' said:

Army...

I tried to watch the game against Navy and there were like 3 pass attempts. It was horrible to watch. 

[wppete]

I like Tyrod, great guy I think a good QB. This year was frustrating watching him play, just playing it safe , checkdowns all the time and not going after it. That’s it. I think a lot of people feel the same way about him. Maybe it was Dennison and his offense. If so and they feel the new OC will do things differently why not bring him back? Draft a QB First round to sit and learn. 

Edited February 3, 2018 by wppete

[reddogblitz]

28 minutes ago, wppete said:

I like Tyrod, great guy I think a good QB. This year was frustrating watching him play, just playing it safe , checkdowns all the time and not going after it. That’s it. I think a lot of people feel the same way about him. Maybe it was Dennison and his offense. If so and they feel the new OC will do things differently why not bring him back? Draft a QB First round to sit and learn. 

 

I thought this season was exciting as hell watching us win 4 out of 6 down the stretch. Getting the wins we had to have instead of figuring out new ways to lose like we did the previous 17 years. We tried in the snow bowl but came through as a team. Great stuff. Winning is fun! There are no style points in football. Just win.

[xRUSHx]

1 hour ago, wppete said:

I like Tyrod, great guy I think a good QB. This year was frustrating watching him play, just playing it safe , checkdowns all the time and not going after it. That’s it. I think a lot of people feel the same way about him. Maybe it was Dennison and his offense. If so and they feel the new OC will do things differently why not bring him back? Draft a QB First round to sit and learn. 

OC#4?

SMH, maybe OC#4, maybe he will get OC#5 by the end of a even more horrible 2018, it would be so Billsy to once again trot not good enough at QB once again.  It sure would prove the QB purgatory is more of a OBD problem then the GM/HCs that have failed here for so long.

 

If they are banking once again with blaming another one of Tyrods fired OCs then the head coach and GM can start getting there tickets ready to get kicked out of town land with all the other HC/GMs that have made the exact mistakes of avoiding the QB position while trying to build the rest of the team first. IMO look at the QB track record here, nothing but fail since Kelly.

 

Truth is without a real QB a staff is on its way out within 3 years regardless of a fluke wild card year1. If they stay with Tyrod for OC#4 they all deserve to get fired. 

 

Should have moved on from Rex choice at QB when Rex got fired, let's be honest here this team got a lucky wild card because of Cinci otherwise it would have just been another fail of a season at a miss at the playoffs because of the garbage QB play. 

37 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

I thought this season was exciting as hell watching us win 4 out of 6 down the stretch. Getting the wins we had to have instead of figuring out new ways to lose like we did the previous 17 years. We tried in the snow bowl but came through as a team. Great stuff. Winning is fun! There are no style points in football. Just win.

Yeah the snow game that Tyrod did not play was a great game. 

Too bad this season had Tyrods worse just look at his wonderful NO game. SMH

Tyrod should have never been brought back in 2017 and if this staff does it again for 2018 I will be counting the days they are also gone.

Edited February 3, 2018 by xRUSHx

[Putin]

2 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Really. A deals a deal. The team hadn't sniffed the playoffs in 17 years. A team wins because of it's QB. Finally we do make the playoffs in a big part due to him. And he deserves a pay cut? We should build a statue of him and put it next to Ralph's or name a street after him or something.

 

 

? did you really write that with a straight face 

[xRUSHx]

1 hour ago, Bakin said:

He was the teams offensive leader. 

He showed up. 

He made some great plays. 

Ultimately he helped to get the team to the playoffs. 

 

Was he great?  No. 

Was he good?  Sometimes. 

 

Deny it all you want. 

Tyrod led our team to the Playoffs. 

And he is a great Buffalo Bill

Is this a joke?

He showed up?

When did this happen?

When was he good in 2017?

Every game we won it was the D not Tyrod.

Deny it all you want, Tyrod did NOT led this team to the playoffs.

Our D led our team to the playoffs with some big help from Cinci,  if it wasnt for Cinci we would have not got that wild card. 

 

Tyrod was benched for a reason this season, because he stunk and stunk bad.

Edited February 3, 2018 by xRUSHx

[transplantbillsfan]

2 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

 

Don't be sorry for having a bizarre opinion, dude. That's your problem, not ours. We're sorry for you on that.

 

 

Question: will you tuck and run like your typical self when you're wrong if Taylor is retained on his current contract this year?

 

2 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

He didn't make a mistake there and he didn't lose any leverage. The Bills didn't think he was worth keeping at that salary. If he hadn't taken the cut he'd have been elsewhere. What he said then had no effect, any more than what he said this year did.

 

Both were reasonable answers. Both opinions about a difficult-to-predict future. Neither had or will have much effect on his contract situation.

 

 

That's interesting opinion you have there.

 

It's certainly not a fact...

 

but it's an interesting opinion, nonetheless  

[Thurman#1]

2 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

There is certainly more balance in the NFL. The point remains that you can win being great at running or passing as long as you are competent at the other. The Jags are great at running the ball and the Patriots are great at throwing it. The Saints may be the most balanced team in football and they sucked until they were.

 

In terms of the Tolbert play, anything that has him split wide is a fail. There is nothing that he could have done there on 3rd and goal to contribute. If the concern is did he take up a DB a WR would have been much more effective in doing that. If the question is did they stay in base because of it? Why would a team be in base defense on 3rd and goal from the 17? You would have extra DBs. It was an abomination. 

 

 

Yeah, you can win balanced.

 

Can you win titles balanced?

 

The record says it happens but unless you've got a QB who really gets respect in the pass game, it happens very infrequently.

 

Went back and looked at the Tolbert play. It was 2nd down, not third down. 2nd and goal at the 18.

 

And taking up a DB with Mike Tolbert is great, assuming it works out that way. On that play McCourty covered him and the Pats had nobody deep at safety. You're right that they certainly aren't likely to be in base at that time, but still might have one or two athletic LBs on the field and might still feel uncomfortable making the decision with little time to consider it, to put an LB out wide. It might produce a better matchup elsewhere.

 

Again, not thrilled with the play. But if it had been executed differently it might have made it a shorter more achievable 3rd down play.

 

In this case, Gilmore was on Benjamin with no deep help anywhere and he had to go back and around Tolbert. There was something there, though not deep. Tyrod didn't look at anything but Tolbert. The two guys on the other side were also mildly open with no clear options on deep routes. Putting Tolbert out there didn't hurt. The Pats had no deep safety. Going to Tolbert on the play doesn't seem to have been the best choice, though it should have been caught. But it would have given them maybe a third and goal on the twelve or so or maybe a bit better if they'd gone to someone else.

Edited February 3, 2018 by Thurman#1

[xRUSHx]

4 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Question: will you tuck and run like your typical self when you're wrong if Taylor is retained on his current contract this year?

 

 

That's interesting opinion you have there.

 

It's certainly not a fact...

 

but it's an interesting opinion, nonetheless  

You have been pounded so many times by Thurm and you posts this garbage? Same old Trans still in blind love for the not good enough Tyrod. I wonder if you will join JM over on the other no name board when all is said and done when the Tyrod era finally  comes to a bitter end this off season. The failed SE is over there as well, you will fit right in.

[Thurman#1]

 

 

36 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Question: will you tuck and run like your typical self when you're wrong if Taylor is retained on his current contract this year?

 

 

That's interesting opinion you have there.

 

It's certainly not a fact...

 

but it's an interesting opinion, nonetheless  

 

 

Gee, thanks for pointing that out. I'd thought it was a fact till you said that. Brilliant.

 

But you're right, it's an opinion ... Like it's an opinion that Aaron Rodgers is better than Blake Bortles. No real way to prove it actually factual. Everyone knows it, but yeah, strictly speaking an opinion. Some stupid answer in a press conference two months before the negotiations come to a head have something on the order of a 0.01% chance of having any real effect on negotiations, particularly when the answer given is only an evasion anyway. So yeah, an opinion. But also pretty much the only sensible opinion. Of course it didn't hurt Tyrod's position two months beforehand to say essentially, "We'll see what happens."

 

But if anyone is an expert on skipping on to the next subject and never commenting when he was wrong, it's you. I've been wrong a bunch of times. I admit it. I've done so many times on both boards over the years.

Edited February 3, 2018 by Thurman#1

[transplantbillsfan]

9 minutes ago, xRUSHx said:

Is this a joke?

He showed up?

When did this happen?

When was he good in 2017?

Every game we won it was the D not Tyrod.

Deny it all you want, Tyrod did NOT led this team to the playoffs.

Our D led our team to the playoffs with some big help from Cinci,  if it wasnt for Cinci we would have not got that wild card. 

 

Tyrod was benched for a reason this season, because he stunk and stunk bad.

 

Taylor "showed up" enough to be critical for Ws in enough games in 2017.

 

He made huge plays on critical downs against really solid defenses against the Falcons, Broncos and Chiefs.

 

We don't win the Bucs game without Taylor, which is an often overlooked game.

 

Ultimately, Taylor played a role in every game he played, and a significant enough one to say he was critical to our playoff run, like it or not.

 

 

You're right about one thing... Tyrod was benched for a reason, we as fans just don't know what that reason is... but, ya know... there were some interesting reports out there :

 

 

[MrEpsYtown]

Honestly, if he becomes a UFA I don't see him making even half of his projected salary. Maybe 5 million? The market was not kind to him last year and will be worse this year with all of the QBs available in free agency and the draft. Paying him 18 million would be insanity. I think his ceiling is what Nick Foles got to be a high level backup, 2 years 11 million. 

[transplantbillsfan]

5 minutes ago, xRUSHx said:

You have been pounded so many times by Thurm and you posts this garbage? Same old Trans still in blind love for the not good enough Tyrod. I wonder if you will join JM over on the other no name board when all is said and done when the Tyrod era finally  comes to a bitter end this off season. The failed SE is over there as well, you will fit right in.

 

Pounded by Thurm... bwahahahahaha!!!  

 

You talking about the poster who religiously scurries into the wall to hide when he's wrong about something?

 

Yah, okay