Former Bills' WR Kolby Listenbee Suing TCU for Forcing Him to Play Injured

[Ol Dirty B]

11 hours ago, Boyst62 said:

I don't have cable dude. And it's not just about being smart, it's about being tough. Smart people don't have to deal with people because they avoid them. But, I'm 5'7, 178 lbs pure truth

 

That's borderline obese...

 

You're 5'7? lol now it all makes sense

[Bing Bong]

On 2/1/2018 at 11:35 PM, Boyst62 said:

No, he just wasn't worth replying to.

 

I'd spank him. 

When you ha e to bring economics and all of that mumbo jumbo you've lost the argument. You lost focus of your argument. Etc.

 

Sorry, your attempt was terrible.

Again, I played d1 sports. I know the reality of this. It's on the student to live up to their potential

 

 

Y'all kids arguing the NCAA is responsible for letting idiots stay idiots because they're too stupid to understand their ball game won't last forever. 

 

But, sure. I'm an internet attorney tough guy calling these dancing kids pansies and snowflakes and you know better because you read Forbes, sports illustrated, saw Concussion and played JV soccer 2 yrs.

 

anybody that doesn't use "snowflake" ironically is a tool haha, you ****.

 

And you lose the argument defending the NCAA as an organization. They're notoriously unethical.

4 hours ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

That's borderline obese...

 

You're 5'7? lol now it all makes sense

come on now let's not go there

[boyst]

6 hours ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

You're a surgeon? Can you give me your name in a PM so I make sure you never operate on me or a family member? I'm sorry but this post isn't something I'd like out of someone in that position ever.

 

Point One, about people getting injected with steroids to do a job they aren't getting paid millions of dollars to do. I'm not by any stretch an expert on this, but these people are getting injected with steroids, EVERY DAY? to do their job? That just seems unhealthy.

 

Second of all on that, and where I son you, is that when Listenbee was taking the injections he was an 20 year old kid not getting paid. He wasn't making millions, are most of the people you inject steroids into everyday so they can do their job, 20 years old? That seems awfully young to be doing that, and being coerced into doing it.

 

Thirdly, which is why the suit is legitimate. He was probably thinking that he would be able to recover from these injuries. That's why he was drafted by the Bills. If I remember correctly, they took a flyer because they thought he had 3rd or 2nd round talent. The Bills took him under the impression that he could recover from this injury, if he really did cause irreperable harm to himself by playing through it, then he has every right to sure. Regardless of the fact that he made 6th round money.

 

I don't get why this is so complicated to you guys. Is it everywhere, or does just WNY breed that hate where you go "Hey I'm gonna look up his rookie signing bonus... He made X amount of dollars... HE SHOULD BE GRATEFUL!" Even though that X amount dollars could have been way more if he didn't have a metal plate some where in his pelvis. 

 

Bottom line, Quit !@#$in hatin

 

And the reason he is suing now, is because he didn't just quit. The guy wanted to play. He exhausted all options to play. If he just did this after not being cleared his rookie year, you'd have a point. The fact so much time has elapsed, and another team showed they wanted to give him the chance only strengthens his case. 

 

You're right, it's not anger. It's bitterness...

 

Maybe some black kid ran faster than you during your 1 year of D1 track and that's what this all stems from.

 

You see Kolby, and you see the kid that took away your chance at that grossly skinny cross country runner. 

You really really really go to Great Lengths to determine something you just don't understand. I could imagine you're the type that pulls up to a urinal and forgets to unzip first, so really there's not much more I can say to describe how clueless you generally come off when just making broad accusations, and Broad generalities and entirely baseless claims based on your based on your#feelings

6 hours ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

That's borderline obese...

 

You're 5'7? lol now it all makes sense

Yep, just believe everything I say Hook Line & Sink her

1 hour ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said:

 

anybody that doesn't use "snowflake" ironically is a tool haha, you ****.

 

And you lose the argument defending the NCAA as an organization. They're notoriously unethical.

come on now let's not go there

No, see one thing is one and two things are two and three cookie cookie ha ha ha

But, you really don't know my posting soil to understand my snowflake usage.  And I'm not defending the NC double a as an organization I am pressing that individual decisions are more important and should matter. Personal responsibility is a thing in my world.

 

 

 

And him thinking that size Matters, maybe on Grindr but not in my world

 

[Mr. WEO]

7 hours ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

You're a surgeon? Can you give me your name in a PM so I make sure you never operate on me or a family member? I'm sorry but this post isn't something I'd like out of someone in that position ever.

 

Point One, about people getting injected with steroids to do a job they aren't getting paid millions of dollars to do. I'm not by any stretch an expert on this, but these people are getting injected with steroids, EVERY DAY? to do their job? That just seems unhealthy.

 

Second of all on that, and where I son you, is that when Listenbee was taking the injections he was an 20 year old kid not getting paid. He wasn't making millions, are most of the people you inject steroids into everyday so they can do their job, 20 years old? That seems awfully young to be doing that, and being coerced into doing it.

 

Thirdly, which is why the suit is legitimate. He was probably thinking that he would be able to recover from these injuries. That's why he was drafted by the Bills. If I remember correctly, they took a flyer because they thought he had 3rd or 2nd round talent. The Bills took him under the impression that he could recover from this injury, if he really did cause irreperable harm to himself by playing through it, then he has every right to sure. Regardless of the fact that he made 6th round money.

 

I don't get why this is so complicated to you guys. Is it everywhere, or does just WNY breed that hate where you go "Hey I'm gonna look up his rookie signing bonus... He made X amount of dollars... HE SHOULD BE GRATEFUL!" Even though that X amount dollars could have been way more if he didn't have a metal plate some where in his pelvis. 

 

Bottom line, Quit !@#$in hatin

 

And the reason he is suing now, is because he didn't just quit. The guy wanted to play. He exhausted all options to play. If he just did this after not being cleared his rookie year, you'd have a point. The fact so much time has elapsed, and another team showed they wanted to give him the chance only strengthens his case. 

 

 

 

I don't "hate" (are you in high school still with that?).  I don't begrudge him any money he made off of the Bills---good for him.  What do I care?

 

I don't treat patients with injections of any kind, so you and your kinfolk are safe.

 

So he thought he would take the rest of his senior season off and then, a few years later, be at a different place than he is now?  You say he exhausted all options to play and then you say another team has shown an interest.....in him playing. How does that strengthen his claim that he was bullied in college?

 

Again, as said in my last post,  if his beef is with the medical staff, then sue the medical staff.  They told the coach he was OK to play.  Coach told him to play.  I don't agree with the way the coach belittled the kid (if any of his claims are true, that is), but this is what these guys do....for generations.

 

Your stuff is weak.  Come back with better...

[BringBackOrton]

22 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

I don't "hate" (are you in high school still with that?).  I don't begrudge him any money he made off of the Bills---good for him.  What do I care?

 

I don't treat patients with injections of any kind, so you and your kinfolk are safe.

 

So he thought he would take the rest of his senior season off and then, a few years later, be at a different place than he is now?  You say he exhausted all options to play and then you say another team has shown an interest.....in him playing. How does that strengthen his claim that he was bullied in college?

 

Again, as said in my last post,  if his beef is with the medical staff, then sue the medical staff.  They told the coach he was OK to play.  Coach told him to play.  I don't agree with the way the coach belittled the kid (if any of his claims are true, that is), but this is what these guys do....for generations.

 

Your stuff is weak.  Come back with better...

This!

 

Now go get your !@#$ing Aliss clamp!

Edited February 3, 2018 by jmc12290

[nedboy7]

18 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

I don't "hate" (are you in high school still with that?).  I don't begrudge him any money he made off of the Bills---good for him.  What do I care?

 

I don't treat patients with injections of any kind, so you and your kinfolk are safe.

 

So he thought he would take the rest of his senior season off and then, a few years later, be at a different place than he is now?  You say he exhausted all options to play and then you say another team has shown an interest.....in him playing. How does that strengthen his claim that he was bullied in college?

 

Again, as said in my last post,  if his beef is with the medical staff, then sue the medical staff.  They told the coach he was OK to play.  Coach told him to play.  I don't agree with the way the coach belittled the kid (if any of his claims are true, that is), but this is what these guys do....for generations.

 

Your stuff is weak.  Come back with better...

 

So that coach was a victim now.  Yeah weak is right.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

17 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

....so how does this NOT affect his lawsuit?........better yet, if you were "forced to play" why not quit and transfer if your health is at risk?......still managed to get drafted by Blfo in the 6th to a four-year, $2.47 million contract with a signing bonus of $99,699 ........and now he is the VICTIM?......yup, today's society in a NUTshell......

 

This is just silly, OldTime.  I don't know if the guy's lawsuit has merit or not, but putting "today's society in a NUTshell" on him with the rationale you give doesn't make sense.

 

Following your logic, no one should ever file a medical malpractice lawsuit - every patient should be able to tell, at the time of treatment, even if they're young'n'dumb and don't have much of a medical or scientific background, that the treatment they are getting from medical professionals and physical therapists/trainers is not good "standard of care" for their injury and may have harmful side effects of which they are not being fully informed.

 

A Senior, who may not even have year of eligibility left and is injured, would not seem a "hot prospect" to be offered a scholarship to transfer (then there's the obscure eligibility rules which apparently even the NCAA doesn't understand).  I doubt transferring was a realistic option.

 

Yes, he could have quit, but that would have meant sacrificing both his chance at a degree and his hoped-for NFL career, even more surely than he may have done by staying and accepting the prescribed treatments.

 

Not that it will matter, but he got paid a fraction of that $2.47M contract.  It's a little obscure to me if his rookie salary was guaranteed, but he may have made  less than $200,000 (signing bonus plus some practice squad $$ from the coach).  If you feel you should have career earnings in the $5M range, and you come out with less than 10% of that and someone's care of you is at fault, perhaps you would feel you have a legit beef.

 

Like I said, I don't know if the guy's lawsuit has merit or not, but I do see a lot of knee-jerk reactions that don't seem to have a lot of sense to them, and this ("quit or transfer", know that your health is at risk) seems like one of them.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

12 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

No, there isn't uniformity of insurance.  Mine is fairly generic.  Most carriers long ago dropped the requirement for specialist referral though.  In Rochester, pretty much any patient can call any specialist and ask for an appointment.
 

Regardless, if he was this concerned back then, he could easily have gone to an "in network" surgeon wherever he is from for a second opinion for a fairly affordable price.  He would've been covered under his parents plan to age 26.

 

Again,  I have no idea if Listenbee's lawsuit has merit.  As a general premise about how medical insurance works, though, this is naive.  You assume 1) Listenbee's parents have medical insurance 2) he would necessarily have been covered by it 3) their insurance does not require referrals 4) it would have a broad enough network so as to include top specialists in network.  None of the 4 can be reasonably assumed.  Yes, if your insurance covers your kid, it should cover them to age 26, but insurance doesn't always cover the kids - people who have 1 kid or the youngest go off to college may drop back to single person coverage when the kid goes off to college and buys college health insurance, for example.

 

I bet if I researched the medical insurance coverage in Rochester, I would find that a substantial number of patients can not, in fact, call "any specialist" and request an appointment.  Moreover, if they do, unless they have strings to pull, they may wait a month or more for an appointment, and the first appointment may be with a NP who will order tests (for which the patient may have to pay, in full) and schedule an appointment with the specialist a month later (that last is not an insurance requirement, just the SOP of some physicians I know)

 

This is Exhibit A of why not to rely on physicians to understand how medical insurance works any more than the senators and congressmen who are legislating it.  They typically have platinum-level or "gold plated" health insurance themselves and have no idea what kind of insurance people buying their own or working for small businesses wind up with.

 

12 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

If his beef is with the medical care he got, he should file a malpractice suit against the physicians whom he feels mistreated him.  That's not what he is doing though, is it?  He is suing the university and the coaching staff (and the medical staff) for bullying him into playing too soon, he says.  Without concrete evidence (recordings, emails, texts, journal entries) or lots of eyewitness accounts/testimony from others to corroborate his claims, he has no chance of winning his suit.

 

This is a valid point.  When I read the SI article, my first thought was "why isn't this a medical malpractice lawsuit?"

 

I would expect Listenbee will have an uphill battle in court, but then again, I don't know what evidence he and his attorneys have put together.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

This is just silly, OldTime.  I don't know if the guy's lawsuit has merit or not, but putting "today's society in a NUTshell" on him with the rationale you give doesn't make sense.

 

Following your logic, no one should ever file a medical malpractice lawsuit - every patient should be able to tell, at the time of treatment, even if they're young'n'dumb and don't have much of a medical or scientific background, that the treatment they are getting from medical professionals and physical therapists/trainers is not good "standard of care" for their injury and may have harmful side effects of which they are not being fully informed.

 

A Senior, who may not even have year of eligibility left and is injured, would not seem a "hot prospect" to be offered a scholarship to transfer (then there's the obscure eligibility rules which apparently even the NCAA doesn't understand).  I doubt transferring was a realistic option.

 

Yes, he could have quit, but that would have meant sacrificing both his chance at a degree and his hoped-for NFL career, even more surely than he may have done by staying and accepting the prescribed treatments.

 

Not that it will matter, but he got paid a fraction of that $2.47M contract.  It's a little obscure to me if his rookie salary was guaranteed, but he may have made  less than $200,000 (signing bonus plus some practice squad $$ from the coach).  If you feel you should have career earnings in the $5M range, and you come out with less than 10% of that and someone's care of you is at fault, perhaps you would feel you have a legit beef.

 

Like I said, I don't know if the guy's lawsuit has merit or not, but I do see a lot of knee-jerk reactions that don't seem to have a lot of sense to them, and this ("quit or transfer", know that your health is at risk) seems like one of them.

 

....sorry for my opinion....you're best bet is IGNORE going forward........works just for for me....

[Mr. WEO]

22 hours ago, nedboy7 said:

 

So that coach was a victim now.  Yeah weak is right.

 

No the coach is not a victim.

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

21 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Again,  I have no idea if Listenbee's lawsuit has merit.  As a general premise about how medical insurance works, though, this is naive.  You assume 1) Listenbee's parents have medical insurance 2) he would necessarily have been covered by it 3) their insurance does not require referrals 4) it would have a broad enough network so as to include top specialists in network.  None of the 4 can be reasonably assumed.  Yes, if your insurance covers your kid, it should cover them to age 26, but insurance doesn't always cover the kids - people who have 1 kid or the youngest go off to college may drop back to single person coverage when the kid goes off to college and buys college health insurance, for example.

 

I bet if I researched the medical insurance coverage in Rochester, I would find that a substantial number of patients can not, in fact, call "any specialist" and request an appointment.  Moreover, if they do, unless they have strings to pull, they may wait a month or more for an appointment, and the first appointment may be with a NP who will order tests (for which the patient may have to pay, in full) and schedule an appointment with the specialist a month later (that last is not an insurance requirement, just the SOP of some physicians I know)

 

This is Exhibit A of why not to rely on physicians to understand how medical insurance works any more than the senators and congressmen who are legislating it.  They typically have platinum-level or "gold plated" health insurance themselves and have no idea what kind of insurance people buying their own or working for small businesses wind up with.

 

 

This is a valid point.  When I read the SI article, my first thought was "why isn't this a medical malpractice lawsuit?"

 

I would expect Listenbee will have an uphill battle in court, but then again, I don't know what evidence he and his attorneys have put together.

 

Much of the above is simply wrong.

 

The Affordable health Care Act allows for coverage until age 26.  If his parents have insurance, he's covered.  He obviously is insured as he saw a team medical team and someone not affiliated with the team.

 

Go ahead and "research" health insurance in rochester.  Be my guest.  The two main commercial carriers have no referral requirement  and haven;t for years.  Medicare and Medicaid obviously have no such requirements.  

 

It doesn't matter whether you have "Gold plated insurance" or Medicaid, both patients are going to get the specialists next available appointment (there aren't 2 separate appointment books...).  And no matter what your insurance, you may see the midlevel (PA/NP) only first, with the midlevel and the specialist, or (as in my practice) the specialist alone---it all depends on how the specialist has set up his/her practice.   It has nothing to do with the type of insurance you have.  I accept any insurance.  I see patients with no insurance.  They all get to see me personally.  I have the insurance my employer offers (I work for Rochester's largest employer in the Central/Western NY's largest physical group) all of its employees--doctors and everyone else.

 

The bolded paragraph is your worst error.  Physicians more than any other group "how medical insurance works".   We are constantly battling with insurers to get approval for the services we are being asked to provide by the patients.  We deal with a vast array of co-pay systems, precertification, authorization, exclusions---all barriers insurers toss up to limit health care usage.

 

"No idea what kind of insurance"?  That could not be more wrong and really gives away the fact that you have no idea what you are talking about.  I'm not knocking you personally, but you can't come here and tell me how my practice works or that what I am posting isn't an actual portrayal is how this all works.  

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

20 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

....sorry for my opinion....you're best bet is IGNORE going forward........works just for for me....

 

You expressed your opinion, I expressed mine.  If you don't like my response enough that you wish I ignored you....it's kind of on you, isn't it?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

8 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Much of the above is simply wrong.

 

The Affordable health Care Act allows for coverage until age 26.  If his parents have insurance, he's covered.  He obviously is insured as he saw a team medical team and someone not affiliated with the team.

WEO, I have a lot of respect for physicians and especially for surgeons and what they go through in America.  I'm sure you know everything about fighting with insurance to get your procedures covered, and I'm sure it's a dogfight.  So I don't want to get into a point-by-point back and forth.

 

You do have serious gaps in your understanding of how insurance coverage per se works overall, and regionally.  Sorry, true.

 

Let's get back to your original contention - that Listenbee could have made an appointment and seen any specialist he chose for the cost of a copayment on his parents insurance.  This is not necessarily true in 4 ways:

1) It is untrue that if parents have insurance, kids are covered.  IF you purchase family insurance coverage, kids are covered to age 26.  But there is no requirement a parent must purchase family insurance coverage.  When I worked for an employer that provided health insurance, I was covered as a single employee.  The kid was on my husband's insurance - but that was choice, not a requirement.   Our insurance now won't cover non-emergency care outside the local network, so next year we'll purchase separate health insurance for the kid, probably from the college (I may PM you asking what you know about that, actually since it's in your area).  Fact: Listenbee's parents didn't necessarily have health insurance, and if they did, Listenbee might or might not have been on it.  It would be their choice, not their requirement, to cover him.  (If they chose to cover him, then yes, to age 26)

2) It is simply not true that a patient can see any specialist of their choice for a copay.  Fact: Health insurers often limit the physician choices in their networks, sometimes narrowly.  This is well documented in multiple media pieces across the country.  I know it as a fact in this area - if I had Insurance B, and wanted to see Matt Matava, the orthopedic surgeon for the former StL Rams, I'd be SOL and paying out of pocket.  If it's not true for Rochester, Bully for Rochester - I knew it seemed like a nice town! 

(And yes, some insurance plans still do require referrals to specialists)

3) If he was on his parent's insurance, and the insurance covered the specialist of his choice, the copay would be far from the only cost - depending upon the specialist, he might be seen by an NP first, and tests (that might have to be paid out of pocket) ordered before seeing the specialist.   

4) The timeline of all this matters.  It took me ~2 months to see a specialist physician for a shoulder problem after I scheduled with the NP, had the tests, then scheduled with specialist.  That would not be helpful to Listenbee in terms of making treatment decisions.  He might be able to get the physician to work him in sooner, or not.

 

8 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

It doesn't matter whether you have "Gold plated insurance" or Medicaid, both patients are going to get the specialists next available appointment (there aren't 2 separate appointment books...).  And no matter what your insurance, you may see the midlevel (PA/NP) only first, with the midlevel and the specialist, or (as in my practice) the specialist alone---it all depends on how the specialist has set up his/her practice.

 

I don't believe I said or implied that the physician had two sets of appointment books for people with different insurance -where did you get that? 

 

It may be true that you, personally, make no exceptions for anyone, they all get in the same line.  Overall, it's not uncommon that who you know and how you approach the physician matters.  An athlete coming from a program the physician is affiliated with moves to the head of the line.  Often, so does the friend of the orthopedists' fraternity roommate, or the woman who is printing his son's Bar Mitzva invitations.

 

8 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

  It has nothing to do with the type of insurance you have.  I accept any insurance.  I see patients with no insurance.  They all get to see me personally.

 

I give you my best respect for this, if it means you comp your time (but the patient still has to figure out how to pay for any tests, operating theatre time, etc). If it means you see patients who bring you cash on the countertop, that's the preferred payment in many area of Missouri, but it doesn't make you a humanitarian it makes you practical.  I know clinics and physician practices in SE Missouri that will only accept cash or private insurance, because they lose money on every Medicaid patient they see in this state and they get stiffed by people who ask to make payments.

 

8 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

The bolded paragraph is your worst error.  Physicians more than any other group "how medical insurance works".

 

I'm sorry, but in what you've written here you have shown significant gaps in your understanding.  I'm sure you know all about fighting with medical insurance to obtain coverage, which is another story - but you don't know what you don't know.