Former Bills' WR Kolby Listenbee Suing TCU for Forcing Him to Play Injured

[boyst]

7 hours ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

What are you talking about? Mumbo jumbo and economics? 

 

I didn't think my opinion of your intelligence could dip any lower but it has.

 

You can't refute any of what I said, that's what's going on here. You realized that if you want to continue this discussion, with actual logic and reasoning, that I'd make you look like the unintelligent fool you are.

 

Again, remember this next time you attempt to have a conversation with me on real life **** rather than who's the better qb.

 

Remember this thread, think about it, then just don't respond to me. You're old, out of touch, and now really talking about stuff you don't know about. 

 

The resume card, whenever someone's pulls that out. You know they lost. You ran d1 track, congrat u !@#$ing lations. When did you run d1 track? The 70's? and it's track, I'm not downplaying it because it's track, but because that's usually not a money making program. So yes, people like you should be grateful that your sport was subsidized.

 

You lived in the section 8 of sports.

 

You don't know the first thing you're talking about. I could come out here and trot my resume, but I won't, because I know what I'm talking about. 

 

A hell of a lot more than a guy who ran d1 track in the 70s or some ****.

 

What a joke. My economics and mumbo jumbo and this ass hat wants to trot out his 1 year d1 track career. And he chose track to preserve his body. Do you have any self awareness to look at yourself and how stupid you sound? It's irritating.

No, I just didn't care to bother to lob a softball back until I got bored and dropped the whole obvious truth on you.  You're using terrible framing to make a ****ty argument that he was pressured and now years later has a case.  That's pathetic.  Why didn't it matter then?  Because he knew he would loose out on a potential NFL contract?  Because he knew he could not stop playing and still stay in school to take his underwater basket weaving courses?  C'mon.  Stop taking away personal responsibility. He made a mistake, they did, too. But, it was on him to stop it if he didn't want it to happen.  I have no sympathy for the fool.

 

Simply, Kolby listenbee is a !@#$. Plain and simple. He needs to grow up and not be part of the problem in this country.   He's worth than the hypocrites in the #metoo movement. Never cared about him, still don't. But he's a fool.

[Malazan]

So I'm guessing Listenbee is broke

[PolishDave]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 The  guy was healthy enough (at least he told everyone he was) when he left college to be drafting into and play in the NFL and has appeared on 3 rosters.

 

He's going to wash out of the NFL like many players before him have and NOW he wants to claim it was because of an injury he had to "play through" a few years ago in college. 

 

It doesn't take this long to "build a case"--he knew all he knows now when he finished his college career.  If he was making big money now, he wouldn't be suing.

 

That is why in the new revolution we will have to kill all the lawyers first!

 

The guy had his shot at the NFL.   He failed.   

 

If he wants to blame the college coach for his failure in the NFL then he also needs to blame that coach for allowing him to get a shot at making it in the NFL.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said:

So I'm guessing Listenbee is broke

 

That's probable.  If I have it right, the Bills put him on "NFI" which means he got no salary in 2016.  He got a $133k signing bonus, and nothing since.

 

The wild card in the whole thing is that the Colts signed him to a reserve/future contract this January.  Now I grant you that the odds of a reserve/future guy making the roster are not high, but the point is the Colts had to have been persuaded that he was healthy enough that he might play, and an NFL career is still in train for him.

 

Possibly he suffered another setback.

 

Here's another take on the lawsuit from SI

[Mr. WEO]

56 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I agree with the last point.  Listenbee rooked the Bills and the NFL regarding the severity and scope of his injury.

 

I also think there's a good bit of hindsight - knowing some student athletes, chances are Listenbee wanted to raise his draft stock by playing in pain, or was at least recognized he would reap some benefit by going along with the coach's plan.

 

On the former point, the experience of my friend is that "local" doctors and team physicians aren't impartial medical professionals - in a small town, the only orthopedic specialist likely has some connection to the team as well.  They tend toward treatments and clearances that benefit the team by keeping the athlete playing, not the long-term health of the athlete.  The "check and balance" is the same  the NFL players bargained into the CBA: the right to be seen by a physician of the athlete's choice, with no connection to the school.  But that's out of reach for many student athletes.

 

Can we agree that it's generally accepted "best practice" to limit the frequency of corticosteroid injections, with the usual guidelines being every six weeks and 4/yr?  I do know people afraid to lose their job if they bring in medical restrictions, who take pain meds and have regular toradol injections to keep going (and know of others who became addicts that route).

 

He was healthy enough to post the second fastest 40 in the draft that year...

 

Ft.Worth is not a "small town"--there's a million people there and no doubt a ton of Ortho/Sports surgeons not connected to TCU who aren't going to risk their incredibly lucrative practices to do the TCU staff a favor.

 

Student athletes are covered under their parents' insurance (at least) and are free to seek any surgical opinion they wish for the cost of a visit co-pay. 

 

As for the limit of injections, every patient is different.  But it's not either steroids and narcotics or you lose your jobs.  Every metropolitan area has at least one "pain Treatment Center" that mainly provides spinal or other joint injections, epidurals, etc.  These are chronic diseases and people get these treatments as a routine.  It's not perfect, but many have already had or are trying to avoid surgery for their joint disease.

 

Did Listenbee expect to sit out the last 8-12 weeks of his senior year and still expect to be drafted?  As everyone has pointed out, he was ONLY drafted because he kept playing.

 

He's only suing because he's not playing.

[K D]

14 hours ago, Ittakestime said:

I follow the dude on social media and constantly wonder how much he has made in his career. The dude balls out on expensive crap. 

Contract History

Career Earnings: $690,932

Years: 2

Career APY: $345,466

so depending on where he lives that's a very nice salary.  he probably rents an apt in Indy so maybe $2k per month.  that leaves a lot of extra spending money when you are a 24 yr old with no bills

[nedboy7]

3 hours ago, Boyst62 said:

No, I just didn't care to bother to lob a softball back until I got bored and dropped the whole obvious truth on you.  You're using terrible framing to make a ****ty argument that he was pressured and now years later has a case.  That's pathetic.  Why didn't it matter then?  Because he knew he would loose out on a potential NFL contract?  Because he knew he could not stop playing and still stay in school to take his underwater basket weaving courses?  C'mon.  Stop taking away personal responsibility. He made a mistake, they did, too. But, it was on him to stop it if he didn't want it to happen.  I have no sympathy for the fool.

 

Simply, Kolby listenbee is a !@#$. Plain and simple. He needs to grow up and not be part of the problem in this country.   He's worth than the hypocrites in the #metoo movement. Never cared about him, still don't. But he's a fool.

 

The amount of anger you have towards someone you don’t even know is pathetic. Now lecture us on the state of the county. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

15 hours ago, Ol Dirty B said:

This thread is a sterling example of why this is one of the worst fan bases in sports.

 

Ignorant 

Self involved

Delusional

Not funny or creative.

 

But hey let's jump through tables and then rip on a guy who was receiving three steroid injections to play a single game for free.

 

This is exhibit a of why you're not a lawyer.

 

But if I need some carpeting put in or some wings cooked, I'll consider giving you a call.

 

Exhibit A because only one side of this topic has legal representation? 

 

I do get you though- Given what I’ve seen, Its not outlandish to presume that even a simple manual labor task or operating a deep fryer are over your head.  Im optimistic that you can operate a phone though so good luck. I’ll pm my number to you so I can walk you through some helpful YouTube videos on tying shoelaces. 

 

17 hours ago, fridge said:

I know there are a lot a real big tough internet men on here, but these quotes are not to be overlooked:

• In 2010, then-team physician Samuel Haraldson told American Medical News that he was “verbally accosted” by Patterson after he refused to allow running back Ed Wesley to re-enter a game against SMU after he sustained a head injury that Haraldson diagnosed as a concussion.
• Listenbee asserts that the “injection of steroids and pain medication, lack of rest due to harassment and abuse from the coaching staff, and strenuous play of football caused” damage to his pelvic cartilage to the point where a metal plate had to be inserted to fuse the bones. The lawsuit claims this ended Listenbee’s chances at the “NFL career he would have had.”

This coach screamed at a team doctor to force a concussed player in the game. He sounds like a psycho. Some of these college coaches act like divine royalty.

 

Seems like there would be more than just him. 

 

Either way, should be interesting to see how this plays out. If a precedent is establish, I expect  to see a lot more of these from those that don’t make the big show. 

[blitzboy54]

19 hours ago, Boyst62 said:

Kolby, no one forced you to do anything. 

GTFO 

And here's your song, pansy

 

Edit:. Just for kicks he needs to add #metoo to his story.

 

Cuz 18-22 year old kids can't be pressured or intimidated?  Internet tough guy talk is usually reflects the opposite reality in real life.

 

 

My guess is your a bit of a coward

[ndirish1978]

I'm kind of surprised by the reaction to this. I feel like there should be a lot more empathy for these kids. We're talking about a billion dollar industry that is predicated on a "free" work force. Half of these schools don't actually give these guys real educations, they enroll them in classes like History of Jazz and make their tutors complete assignments for them. I know people who have played D-1 at dozens of schools and I can tell you there are only a handful of schools that actually allow these guys take real classes that will result in them getting an actual job or degree that's worth anything. I know several guys who went on to have short-lived careers in the league who could probably read at a fourth grade level. Had another acquaintance who wanted to be a business major but was forced by the coaches at an ACC school to major in communications because that whole department was basically a free pass. There is very little validity to people saying these kids receiving any actual life-helping benefit, most of these kids are being exploited. To be clear, these kids are obligated to do whatever the coaches want if they want any shot at the pros, because they will be stuffed on the bench and never play if they aren't compliant. Many of these kids come from humble beginnings and are terrified of the prospect of not playing because they know it's the only chance they have to improve their lot in life. 

[boyst]

1 hour ago, blitzboy54 said:

 

Cuz 18-22 year old kids can't be pressured or intimidated?  Internet tough guy talk is usually reflects the opposite reality in real life.

 

 

My guess is your a bit of a coward

Ask those who've met me. I'm too stupid too be scared.  But, yeah, I'm not worried what you think. The only thing worse than an internet tough guy is a white knight.

 

Sorry to burst your snowflake.

 

And 18 yr olds are adults. Sorry if I expect people to stand behind choices they make. 

2 hours ago, nedboy7 said:

 

The amount of anger you have towards someone you don’t even know is pathetic. Now lecture us on the state of the county. 

There is no anger. And no, that's in PPP. Go there and read my posts.  You'll be amazed. 

[nedboy7]

21 minutes ago, Boyst62 said:

Ask those who've met me. I'm too stupid too be scared.  But, yeah, I'm not worried what you think. The only thing worse than an internet tough guy is a white knight.

 

Sorry to burst your snowflake.

 

And 18 yr olds are adults. Sorry if I expect people to stand behind choices they make. 

There is no anger. And no, that's in PPP. Go there and read my posts.  You'll be amazed. 

 

Maybe one day I can watch enough Fox News to be as smart and informed as you. 

[boyst]

Just now, nedboy7 said:

 

Maybe one day I can watch enough Fox News to be as smart and informed as you. 

I don't have cable dude. And it's not just about being smart, it's about being tough. Smart people don't have to deal with people because they avoid them. But, I'm 5'7, 178 lbs pure truth

[blitzboy54]

13 minutes ago, Boyst62 said:

I don't have cable dude. And it's not just about being smart, it's about being tough. Smart people don't have to deal with people because they avoid them. But, I'm 5'7, 178 lbs pure truth

 

 

Don't forget self righteous and silly.

[boyst]

14 minutes ago, blitzboy54 said:

 

 

Don't forget self righteous and silly.

And handsome. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

He was healthy enough to post the second fastest 40 in the draft that year...

 

He was, which is likely why the Bills took a flyer (Ha!) on him.  OTOH,

1) that 40 time actually argues against the contention "he was only drafted because he kept playing".   Athletes with top 40 times always get attention.   If he was out,  injured, then posted the 2nd fastest 40 time, he might well have been drafted in a similar position based on his Jr year and his 40 time.  In fact, without a fall-off in production his Sr year, he might have gone slightly higher.

2) we all know a guy can be doped up for one performance, and that the Bills put him on "non football injury" argues that in fact he showed up injured.

 

5 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

Ft.Worth is not a "small town"--there's a million people there and no doubt a ton of Ortho/Sports surgeons not connected to TCU who aren't going to risk their incredibly lucrative practices to do the TCU staff a favor.

 

It's actually a bigger city than I was thinking -- I hadn't realized how close to Dallas - but did or did not his specific "outside Dr" have connections to the school?  No doubt the details will come out in the lawsuit, but until then, it is no more valid to assume he saw an orthopedic specialist without connections to the school, than it is to assume he did.

 

5 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

Student athletes are covered under their parents' insurance (at least) and are free to seek any surgical opinion they wish for the cost of a visit co-pay. 

 

There is no uniformity in insurance in this country.  His parents might not have insurance; if they do, he might not be covered, and if he's covered, the insurance might not have coverage for an "out of network" specialist and might require him to use a specialist from a limited list back in his home town, after he sees his primary physician and gets a referral - not something a kid might be able to pull off during school/football seasn.  I'm glad to know you seem to have "gold plated" insurance coverage that lets you and your kids see anyone you want for a copay, but it's far from universal.  If you don't already know everyone isn't like you in that regard, now you do, thank me.  You're Welcome.

 

Also with the "every patient is different thing", in fact, it is well established that corticosteroid injections have side effects that can debilitate cartilage and connective tissue thus "best practice" is to limit both the frequency and the total number of annual injections - am I mis-recalling your background that you should know this?  (something with medical devices?) The contention in what's come out of the lawsuit is that he was receiving repeated corticosteroid and anesthetic injections before practice, before games, and again at halftime, so the point isn't what else could be done besides corticosteroid and anesthetic injections - it's whether or not he, specifically, was receiving corticosteroid injections way more often than he should have been to avoid debilitating side effects.

 

6 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

He's only suing because he's not playing.

 

That part is almost certainly true - but kind of the point of his lawsuit.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

13 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

He was, which is likely why the Bills took a flyer (Ha!) on him.  OTOH,

1) that 40 time actually argues against the contention "he was only drafted because he kept playing".   Athletes with top 40 times always get attention.   If he was out,  injured, then posted the 2nd fastest 40 time, he might well have been drafted in a similar position based on his Jr year and his 40 time.  In fact, without a fall-off in production his Sr year, he might have gone slightly higher.

2) we all know a guy can be doped up for one performance, and that the Bills put him on "non football injury" argues that in fact he showed up injured.

 

 

It's actually a bigger city than I was thinking -- I hadn't realized how close to Dallas - but did or did not his specific "outside Dr" have connections to the school?  No doubt the details will come out in the lawsuit, but until then, it is no more valid to assume he saw an orthopedic specialist without connections to the school, than it is to assume he did.

 

 

There is no uniformity in insurance in this country.  His parents might not have insurance; if they do, he might not be covered, and if he's covered, the insurance might not have coverage for an "out of network" specialist and might require him to use a specialist from a limited list back in his home town, after he sees his primary physician and gets a referral - not something a kid might be able to pull off during school/football seasn.  I'm glad to know you seem to have "gold plated" insurance coverage that lets you and your kids see anyone you want for a copay, but it's far from universal.  If you don't already know everyone isn't like you in that regard, now you do, thank me.  You're Welcome.

 

Also with the "every patient is different thing", in fact, it is well established that corticosteroid injections have side effects that can debilitate cartilage and connective tissue thus "best practice" is to limit both the frequency and the total number of annual injections - am I mis-recalling your background that you should know this?  (something with medical devices?) The contention in what's come out of the lawsuit is that he was receiving repeated corticosteroid and anesthetic injections before practice, before games, and again at halftime, so the point isn't what else could be done besides corticosteroid and anesthetic injections - it's whether or not he, specifically, was receiving corticosteroid injections way more often than he should have been to avoid debilitating side effects.

 

 

That part is almost certainly true - but kind of the point of his lawsuit.

 

....so how does this NOT affect his lawsuit?........better yet, if you were "forced to play" why not quit and transfer if your health is at risk?......still managed to get drafted by Blfo in the 6th to a four-year, $2.47 million contract with a signing bonus of $99,699 ........and now he is the VICTIM?......yup, today's society in a NUTshell......

Indianapolis Colts

On December 13, 2017, Listenbee was signed to the Indianapolis Colts' practice squad.^[16] He signed a reserve/future contract with the Colts on January 1, 2018.

 

Edited February 2, 2018 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[Mr. WEO]

5 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

He was, which is likely why the Bills took a flyer (Ha!) on him.  OTOH,

1) that 40 time actually argues against the contention "he was only drafted because he kept playing".   Athletes with top 40 times always get attention.   If he was out,  injured, then posted the 2nd fastest 40 time, he might well have been drafted in a similar position based on his Jr year and his 40 time.  In fact, without a fall-off in production his Sr year, he might have gone slightly higher.

2) we all know a guy can be doped up for one performance, and that the Bills put him on "non football injury" argues that in fact he showed up injured.

 

 

It's actually a bigger city than I was thinking -- I hadn't realized how close to Dallas - but did or did not his specific "outside Dr" have connections to the school?  No doubt the details will come out in the lawsuit, but until then, it is no more valid to assume he saw an orthopedic specialist without connections to the school, than it is to assume he did.

 

 

There is no uniformity in insurance in this country.  His parents might not have insurance; if they do, he might not be covered, and if he's covered, the insurance might not have coverage for an "out of network" specialist and might require him to use a specialist from a limited list back in his home town, after he sees his primary physician and gets a referral - not something a kid might be able to pull off during school/football seasn.  I'm glad to know you seem to have "gold plated" insurance coverage that lets you and your kids see anyone you want for a copay, but it's far from universal.  If you don't already know everyone isn't like you in that regard, now you do, thank me.  You're Welcome.

 

Also with the "every patient is different thing", in fact, it is well established that corticosteroid injections have side effects that can debilitate cartilage and connective tissue thus "best practice" is to limit both the frequency and the total number of annual injections - am I mis-recalling your background that you should know this?  (something with medical devices?) The contention in what's come out of the lawsuit is that he was receiving repeated corticosteroid and anesthetic injections before practice, before games, and again at halftime, so the point isn't what else could be done besides corticosteroid and anesthetic injections - it's whether or not he, specifically, was receiving corticosteroid injections way more often than he should have been to avoid debilitating side effects.

 

 

That part is almost certainly true - but kind of the point of his lawsuit.

 

No, there isn't uniformity of insurance.  Mine is fairly generic.  Most carriers long ago dropped the requirement for specialist referral though.  In Rochester, pretty much any patient can call any specialist and ask for an appointment.

 

Regardless, if he was this concerned back then, he could easily have gone to an "in network" surgeon wherever he is from for a second opinion for a fairly affordable price.  He would've been covered under his parents plan to age 26.

 

If his beef is with the medical care he got, he should file a malpractice suit against the physicians whom he feels mistreated him.  That's not what he is doing though, is it?  He is suing the university and the coaching staff (and the medical staff) for bullying him into playing too soon, he says.  Without concrete evidence (recordings, emails, texts, journal entries) or lots of eyewitness accounts/testimony from others to corroborate his claims, he has no chance of winning his suit.

 

I'm a surgeon, not orthopedic. 

[Ol Dirty B]

16 hours ago, PolishDave said:

 

That is why in the new revolution we will have to kill all the lawyers first!

 

The guy had his shot at the NFL.   He failed.   

 

If he wants to blame the college coach for his failure in the NFL then he also needs to blame that coach for allowing him to get a shot at making it in the NFL.

 

He never had a chance in the NFL. The guy has never been healthy enough to play. Or are we just going to ignore that glaring fact?

[Ol Dirty B]

17 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Today, in every city in America, patients will be getting steroids injected into various joints just so they can get through a day at a job where they aren't paid millions to toss or catch a ball on an adult playground field while millions of their fans watch them on TV.

 

 

 

 

What is their liability?  The  guy was healthy enough (at least he told everyone he was) when he left college to be drafting into and play in the NFL and has appeared on 3 rosters.

 

He's going to wash out of the NFL like many players before him have and NOW he wants to claim it was because of an injury he had to "play through" a few years ago in college. 

 

It doesn't take this long to "build a case"--he knew all he knows now when he finished his college career.  If he was making big money now, he wouldn't be suing.

 

 

 

 

 

Oh no you di'in't....!!

 

You're a surgeon? Can you give me your name in a PM so I make sure you never operate on me or a family member? I'm sorry but this post isn't something I'd like out of someone in that position ever.

 

Point One, about people getting injected with steroids to do a job they aren't getting paid millions of dollars to do. I'm not by any stretch an expert on this, but these people are getting injected with steroids, EVERY DAY? to do their job? That just seems unhealthy.

 

Second of all on that, and where I son you, is that when Listenbee was taking the injections he was an 20 year old kid not getting paid. He wasn't making millions, are most of the people you inject steroids into everyday so they can do their job, 20 years old? That seems awfully young to be doing that, and being coerced into doing it.

 

Thirdly, which is why the suit is legitimate. He was probably thinking that he would be able to recover from these injuries. That's why he was drafted by the Bills. If I remember correctly, they took a flyer because they thought he had 3rd or 2nd round talent. The Bills took him under the impression that he could recover from this injury, if he really did cause irreperable harm to himself by playing through it, then he has every right to sure. Regardless of the fact that he made 6th round money.

 

I don't get why this is so complicated to you guys. Is it everywhere, or does just WNY breed that hate where you go "Hey I'm gonna look up his rookie signing bonus... He made X amount of dollars... HE SHOULD BE GRATEFUL!" Even though that X amount dollars could have been way more if he didn't have a metal plate some where in his pelvis. 

 

Bottom line, Quit !@#$in hatin

 

And the reason he is suing now, is because he didn't just quit. The guy wanted to play. He exhausted all options to play. If he just did this after not being cleared his rookie year, you'd have a point. The fact so much time has elapsed, and another team showed they wanted to give him the chance only strengthens his case. 

11 hours ago, Boyst62 said:

Ask those who've met me. I'm too stupid too be scared.  But, yeah, I'm not worried what you think. The only thing worse than an internet tough guy is a white knight.

 

Sorry to burst your snowflake.

 

And 18 yr olds are adults. Sorry if I expect people to stand behind choices they make. 

There is no anger. And no, that's in PPP. Go there and read my posts.  You'll be amazed. 

 

You're right, it's not anger. It's bitterness...

 

Maybe some black kid ran faster than you during your 1 year of D1 track and that's what this all stems from.

 

You see Kolby, and you see the kid that took away your chance at that grossly skinny cross country runner. 

Edited February 3, 2018 by Ol Dirty B