JM57 Posted February 6, 2018 Posted February 6, 2018 47 minutes ago, K-GunJimKelly12 said: Take it for what it's worth: Lamar Jackson 2017 season vs teams that were 8-5 or better (Clemson, NC State, Wake Forest, Mississippi State) : Record: 0-4 164 attempts/87 completions, Comp % 53%, YPG 293, 5 TD'S AND 7 INT'S Lamar Jackson 2017 season vs teams that were 7-6 OR 6-7 (Purdue, Boston College, Florida State, Virginia, Kentucky) : Record: 4-1 153 attempts/92 completions, Comp % 60%, YPG 255, 9 TD'S AND 1 INT Lamar Jackson 2017 season vs teams that were worse than 6-7 ( North Carloina, Kent State, Murray State, Syracuse): Record: 4-0 113 attempts/75 completions, Comp % 66%, YPG 303, 10 TD'S AND 2 INT For those who are comparing Watson and Jackson in terms of value as prospects, these are Watson's stats in the National Championship game last year against the closest thing you will ever see to an NFL defense in the 2016 Crimson Tide: 36-56, 420 yards, 3 TD's and 0 Int's Jackson in his bowl game this year vs Mississippi State was: 13-31 171 yards, 2 TD's and 4 Int's Reminder that when Lamar Jackson is taken, he will be the first offensive skill player from Louisville drafted...in any round...since Devante Parker in the 2014 draft. He didn't have a ton around him at Louisville.
GunnerBill Posted February 6, 2018 Posted February 6, 2018 2 hours ago, Buffalo30 said: He was still running though instead of in the pocket taking normal dropbacks. Was Kevin Kolb running when he slipped on the mat? A kid moving a bit in practice and his knee blowing out in a non contact situation is not a reason to dismiss mobile Quarterbacks.
The Now Moment Posted February 6, 2018 Posted February 6, 2018 56 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Was Kevin Kolb running when he slipped on the mat? A kid moving a bit in practice and his knee blowing out in a non contact situation is not a reason to dismiss mobile Quarterbacks. I mentioned others too
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted February 6, 2018 Posted February 6, 2018 4 hours ago, K-GunJimKelly12 said: Take it for what it's worth: Lamar Jackson 2017 season vs teams that were 8-5 or better (Clemson, NC State, Wake Forest, Mississippi State) : Record: 0-4 164 attempts/87 completions, Comp % 53%, YPG 293, 5 TD'S AND 7 INT'S Lamar Jackson 2017 season vs teams that were 7-6 OR 6-7 (Purdue, Boston College, Florida State, Virginia, Kentucky) : Record: 4-1 153 attempts/92 completions, Comp % 60%, YPG 255, 9 TD'S AND 1 INT Lamar Jackson 2017 season vs teams that were worse than 6-7 ( North Carloina, Kent State, Murray State, Syracuse): Record: 4-0 113 attempts/75 completions, Comp % 66%, YPG 303, 10 TD'S AND 2 INT For those who are comparing Watson and Jackson in terms of value as prospects, these are Watson's stats in the National Championship game last year against the closest thing you will ever see to an NFL defense in the 2016 Crimson Tide: 36-56, 420 yards, 3 TD's and 0 Int's Jackson in his bowl game this year vs Mississippi State was: 13-31 171 yards, 2 TD's and 4 Int's I know he's a QB and we want to evaluate that part of his game. However, he also had 24/158 and a TD on the ground in that game, and they lost by 4 to a team that is much better. I mean - he ran for over 100 yards in 10 of 13 games... It's not like we're not tacking on Tyrods like 30 yards here and there, this guy averaged over 100 per game. To me it's tough to evaluate a guy like that based on stats because of what he was asked to do. Which is pretty much everything. He's an upside kinda guy who would have to do well in interviews, and will be a project type who needs a lot of time. Not sure I would want to invest 1st round picks in the guy, but the talent is certainly there.
Guest K-GunJimKelly12 Posted February 6, 2018 Posted February 6, 2018 (edited) 33 minutes ago, dneveu said: I know he's a QB and we want to evaluate that part of his game. However, he also had 24/158 and a TD on the ground in that game, and they lost by 4 to a team that is much better. I mean - he ran for over 100 yards in 10 of 13 games... It's not like we're not tacking on Tyrods like 30 yards here and there, this guy averaged over 100 per game. To me it's tough to evaluate a guy like that based on stats because of what he was asked to do. Which is pretty much everything. He's an upside kinda guy who would have to do well in interviews, and will be a project type who needs a lot of time. Not sure I would want to invest 1st round picks in the guy, but the talent is certainly there. I get your point but as a passer, I don't think he is good enough. He isn't going to be rushing for 100 yards a game in the NFL. You still need to be able to pass from the pocket and I don't think he is accurate enough. Everything about him screams Michael Vick (nothing to do with the color of his skin) and I happen to think Vick was better. To me you are drafting Vick but not quite as good. Edited February 6, 2018 by K-GunJimKelly12
26CornerBlitz Posted February 6, 2018 Posted February 6, 2018 An opinion from a not so neutral party.
Solomon Grundy Posted February 6, 2018 Posted February 6, 2018 6 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: An opinion from a not so neutral party. My grandfather had a saying, "Let sleeping dogs lie"
Agent 91 Posted February 6, 2018 Posted February 6, 2018 On 2/2/2018 at 12:57 PM, BuffaloHokie13 said: And this is why Drops aren't an official stat. The way the NFL rules work... Catches shouldnt be either 2
GreggTX Posted February 7, 2018 Posted February 7, 2018 (edited) I like him better than Rudolph. Rudolph may be ready sooner and should be pretty good, but I think Jackson has a higher ceiling. He needs to add weight to stand up to all the hits he'll take in the NFL. Edited February 7, 2018 by GreggTX
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted February 7, 2018 Posted February 7, 2018 16 hours ago, K-GunJimKelly12 said: I get your point but as a passer, I don't think he is good enough. He isn't going to be rushing for 100 yards a game in the NFL. You still need to be able to pass from the pocket and I don't think he is accurate enough. Everything about him screams Michael Vick (nothing to do with the color of his skin) and I happen to think Vick was better. To me you are drafting Vick but not quite as good. I'm up and down on him. His athleticism really is top notch - he'll run in the 4.3's, and he's incredibly quick and elusive in the open field. I do question his smarts though - he doesn't come off particularly bright in interviews. On the football field, he seems to make a lot of the right reads - he just misses throws because of timing. I don't usually care about the wonderlic, but if they're considering him I'd like to see him in the mid-20s.
JM57 Posted February 7, 2018 Posted February 7, 2018 Cover 1 put together a real nice breakdown of Jackson, warts and all. If you still see Tyrod Taylor after reading it, you're a lost cause. He might flame out, but he's a totally different player than TT. 1
Guest K-GunJimKelly12 Posted February 7, 2018 Posted February 7, 2018 (edited) 52 minutes ago, JM57 said: Cover 1 put together a real nice breakdown of Jackson, warts and all. If you still see Tyrod Taylor after reading it, you're a lost cause. He might flame out, but he's a totally different player than TT. I read most of it and it reinforced why I don't want the Bills to take him in the first. 52.8 % on slant routes when by comparison Mayfield is 85%, yikes. That scares the hell out of me. Rosen and Mayfield are the guys this draft. Edited February 7, 2018 by K-GunJimKelly12
DCOrange Posted February 8, 2018 Author Posted February 8, 2018 11 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said: This is a really great breakdown.
Chicken Boo Posted February 10, 2018 Posted February 10, 2018 On 2/7/2018 at 1:41 AM, GreggTX said: I like him better than Rudolph. Rudolph may be ready sooner and should be pretty good, but I think Jackson has a higher ceiling. He needs to add weight to stand up to all the hits he'll take in the NFL. And learn how to read defenses and go through his progressions. Jackson is a massive project. I'm honestly shocked, after having Tyrod for 3 seasons, that Bills fans want another supreme athlete trying to play QB. Have we learned nothing? 2
SouthNYfan Posted February 10, 2018 Posted February 10, 2018 On 2/7/2018 at 1:19 PM, JM57 said: Cover 1 put together a real nice breakdown of Jackson, warts and all. If you still see Tyrod Taylor after reading it, you're a lost cause. He might flame out, but he's a totally different player than TT. I'm sure people still will 20 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said: And learn how to read defenses and go through his progressions. Jackson is a massive project. I'm honestly shocked, after having Tyrod for 3 seasons, that Bills fans want another supreme athlete trying to play QB. Have we learned nothing? I'm not saying he's our #1 guy, but sometimes teams just won't let you trade up. Mayfield, Rosen, and darnold all go before we pick because we can't move up enough, I wouldn't be upset with Jackson. He's not Tyrod. Comparing them is simply lazy. Black, highly athletic, that's about it. Taylor wasn't 1/3 the QB Jackson is coming out. 2
Chicken Boo Posted February 10, 2018 Posted February 10, 2018 38 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said: I'm sure people still will I'm not saying he's our #1 guy, but sometimes teams just won't let you trade up. Mayfield, Rosen, and darnold all go before we pick because we can't move up enough, I wouldn't be upset with Jackson. He's not Tyrod. Comparing them is simply lazy. Black, highly athletic, that's about it. Taylor wasn't 1/3 the QB Jackson is coming out. It's not lazy. Just like comparing Mayfield and Manziel isn't lazy. There ARE parallels. Glaring parallels! In fact, I'll go ahead and state that Tyrod is better than Jackson. A guy who has a 53% completion percentage 5 TDs and 7 ints vs teams like Clemson, Wake, NC State and Miss. St. is going to struggle mightily vs NFL caliber defenses. There's a stat in here that his completions percentage on routine slants is below 55%. Jackson doesn't go through his progressions and he has trouble reading defenses because up until a year ago, he never really had to. His immense talent was good enough. Lamar Jackson is a 1-read and run QB. He shines against inferior teams. His talent allows him to do that, but when sheer talent doesn't get it done, he struggles. Baker Mayfield is a 6' QB with maturity issues. Who does that sound like? Just because folks don't like the comparisons, it doesn't make them any less true.
aristocrat Posted February 10, 2018 Posted February 10, 2018 13 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said: It's not lazy. Just like comparing Mayfield and Manziel isn't lazy. There ARE parallels. Glaring parallels! In fact, I'll go ahead and state that Tyrod is better than Jackson. A guy who has a 53% completion percentage 5 TDs and 7 ints vs teams like Clemson, Wake, NC State and Miss. St. is going to struggle mightily vs NFL caliber defenses. There's a stat in here that his completions percentage on routine slants is below 55%. Jackson doesn't go through his progressions and he has trouble reading defenses because up until a year ago, he never really had to. His immense talent was good enough. Lamar Jackson is a 1-read and run QB. He shines against inferior teams. His talent allows him to do that, but when sheer talent doesn't get it done, he struggles. Baker Mayfield is a 6' QB with maturity issues. Who does that sound like? Just because folks don't like the comparisons, it doesn't make them any less true. well if you're going to compare them at least compare tyrods college career which was under 60 percent passing and he topped out at at 2700 yards passing and 650 yards rushing. He had 50 percent comp against miami, stanford, carolina. lamar has blown tyrods college stats away and then some. but if you're gonna compare him and he improves as tyrod has improved lamar is a homerun. 1
SouthNYfan Posted February 10, 2018 Posted February 10, 2018 12 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said: It's not lazy. Just like comparing Mayfield and Manziel isn't lazy. There ARE parallels. Glaring parallels! In fact, I'll go ahead and state that Tyrod is better than Jackson. A guy who has a 53% completion percentage 5 TDs and 7 ints vs teams like Clemson, Wake, NC State and Miss. St. is going to struggle mightily vs NFL caliber defenses. There's a stat in here that his completions percentage on routine slants is below 55%. Jackson doesn't go through his progressions and he has trouble reading defenses because up until a year ago, he never really had to. His immense talent was good enough. Lamar Jackson is a 1-read and run QB. He shines against inferior teams. His talent allows him to do that, but when sheer talent doesn't get it done, he struggles. Baker Mayfield is a 6' QB with maturity issues. Who does that sound like? Just because folks don't like the comparisons, it doesn't make them any less true. Just because folks like to be lazy doesn't make the comparisons any more true either. Go watch video of Jackson. He's not a "one read and run" QB. If you think that's an he is you're completely off the mark. Saying tyrod is better? On what basis? I stated that Taylor wasn't 1/3 the QB Jackson is coming out. That's a flat out fact. Lamar Jackson is significantly better than tyrod Taylor was coming out of college. It's also lazy to call Mayfield another manziel. They are undersized QBs from Texas. That's about it. Mayfield has better pocket presence. Johnny was a loudmouthed, arrogant prick in all walks of life. He was a drunk, a party animal, taunting the press and the public with social media photos of him throwing around $$, all sorts of idiotic immature stuff. Baker is a cocky guy who had one, I repeat, ONE incident with the law, which he seems to have sincerely felt remorse for. He took responsibility for it. Johnny football still has yet to do that for anything. It's all everybody else's fault with manziel. I don't see that with Mayfield. It's lazy to compare the two as being "exactly the same" 1
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