JohnC Posted February 1, 2018 Posted February 1, 2018 7 minutes ago, OrtonHearsaWho said: Couldn't agree more except with the Bortles comparison. I'm not saying that I like Bortles very much but he put up fantastic college numbers, even against power conference teams. Of all of the QBs, he's the one that I hope the Bills stay away from. He's like the Mike Mamula of QBs to me. I read that he threw 66mph at the Senior Bowl. Okay cool...he also misses receivers as badly as anyone I have seen. The Ringer had a good write up about him that covers his deficiencies very thoroughly. I could be wrong and if the Bills take him then I obviously hope I'm wrong. The Mamula example is a smart and appropriate analogy.( Most of the youngster here have no idea who he is.)He killed it at the combine. He was a physical freak who aced all the tests. He came from being off the radar to being the biggest target on the radar. The biggest trap for scouts is overvaluing performances at the combine. If you want to learn the makeup of a player it is through the interview and background checks and watching how a player actually plays. Without a doubt the qb position is the hardest to evaluate. A qb can have all the tools but if he lacks vision and an intuitive ability to react on the field he will not succeed. I would prefer a qb such as Lamar Jackson compared to Allen who although is a raw prospect has shown, inconsistently for sure, an ability to play the position at a level that will translate to the pro ranks.
OrtonHearsaWho Posted February 1, 2018 Posted February 1, 2018 3 minutes ago, JohnC said: The Mamula example is a smart and appropriate analogy.( Most of the youngster here have no idea who he is.)He killed it at the combine. He was a physical freak who aced all the tests. He came from being off the radar to being the biggest target on the radar. The biggest trap for scouts is overvaluing performances at the combine. If you want to learn the makeup of a player it is through the interview and background checks and watching how a player actually plays. Without a doubt the qb position is the hardest to evaluate. A qb can have all the tools but if he lacks vision and an intuitive ability to react on the field he will not succeed. I would prefer a qb such as Lamar Jackson compared to Allen who although is a raw prospect has shown, inconsistently for sure, an ability to play the position at a level that will translate to the pro ranks. Dang it, now I feel old! I usually hate sports cliches but one that I agree with at the QB position is "he's a winner". It's not just some magical quality...a QB ends up being a winner because he's accurate, can anticipate throws and can read a defense. There are obviously exceptions to that but I would absolutely prefer a "winner" like Mayfield or Jackson over Allen. I swear that he doesn't owe me money or anything, I just don't think he will do well in the league.
JohnC Posted February 1, 2018 Posted February 1, 2018 3 minutes ago, BigBuff423 said: The problem is that, if you're taking a QB with a lower rating simply to save a few Draft slots, it will take at least 3 years (usually) to determine whether or not the QB has "it"....as you said there are rare special occasions when you know immediately and the results bare out over time. But normally, if a team drafts a QB in the 1st round, no matter how abysmal the first year, he gets a second, and if ANY improvement even in the smallest amount is seen, they usually get a 3rd...and rightfully so....but the point is if you're trading up for a QB, but you're NOT taking THE QB you think will be the premiere player, then you're wasting a pick and approximately 3 years of development to find out. That's the point...either go all in, or just go home. What you are not acknowledging is that if you prefer the top two that doesn't mean you will be able to put yourself in the position to get your preferred qbs. If Cleveland and the Giants want their respective qbs they are going to get their prospect no matter what you are willing to offer. And it is certainly not inconceivable that your ranking of players can be so close to the point that it isn't worth giving up assets to get your preferred qb. You do a value analysis and you make a judgment. In this draft there might not be a big difference in ranking between the top three qbs. Without a doubt there is a major difference between the top three and the six to 10 next ranked qbs. The reality in the draft is that you make the best of your situation. If option A is not available then option B might be a reasonable fallback position to take. As the saying goes: Don't let perfect be the enemy of the good. 5 minutes ago, OrtonHearsaWho said: Dang it, now I feel old! I usually hate sports cliches but one that I agree with at the QB position is "he's a winner". It's not just some magical quality...a QB ends up being a winner because he's accurate, can anticipate throws and can read a defense. There are obviously exceptions to that but I would absolutely prefer a "winner" like Mayfield or Jackson over Allen. I swear that he doesn't owe me money or anything, I just don't think he will do well in the league. You are not old. You are just more experienced than most. For me the most intriguing qb in this draft is Mayfield. I followed him as much as possible this past season. He is dynamic and captivating. I would have no qualms taking him over any other qb in this draft. As far as Jackson he is another qb that I wouldn't mind in the fold. My bottom line is that there is simply no excuse for us to come out of this draft without a high end qb prospect in this draft.
BillsFan4 Posted February 1, 2018 Posted February 1, 2018 10 hours ago, eball said: Of course, it stands to reason a bunch of fat slobs on their couches know more about evaluating QBs than a guy who has been coaching for decades. Hey! I resent that! I'm not on the couch. I'm sitting in my recliner.
Steve O Posted February 1, 2018 Posted February 1, 2018 (edited) 11 hours ago, Bad Things said: The "Waste Management Open"? Golf tournament. Sadly, they've done away with the Saturday Caddie races, always one of the highlights of the PGA season. Wednesday must have been the pro-Am. Edited February 1, 2018 by Steve O
#34fan Posted February 1, 2018 Posted February 1, 2018 Poor guy is all gacked-out on those pain meds.... There's maybe 1 week-1 starter at QB in this whole draft.
Shaw66 Posted February 1, 2018 Posted February 1, 2018 How does an NFL coach find time during the season to scout college football QBs? I thought all the scouting in the Fall was done by the scouts, with the coaches getting involved after the season ends. I think these are the comments of fan. Like, "Mason Rudolph is great! I saw him though a long touchdown pass." Now, that's some real in depth scouting.
The Now Moment Posted February 2, 2018 Posted February 2, 2018 On 2/1/2018 at 11:39 AM, GunnerBill said: And the transition to speed, YAC guys for Cam has failed. Big targets with big catch radius' for guys who want to throw down the field but have a tendency to get a little bit high. I stand by my view if I was drafting Rudolph I'd be going big on the outside and at tight end. I just see a guy like him benefiting from a speedy underneath guy who can get away from corners and find the open spaces. Big guys have a tough time with that. On 2/1/2018 at 11:44 AM, Mat68 said: I believe that was more a change in philosophy from Beane and Gettleman to there current GM. Beane seems to have the Parcells philosophy there is a finite amount of large men in the world so try to get as many as you can. You cant teach size or speed. Everyone in the NFL is fast not every is big and fast. Hopkins has the largest hands in the league and has made the most contested catches since entering the league. He plays much larger than his frame. I like having a tall receiver but I also think an underneath guy is necessary who is fast and a solid route runner who can get space from his defenders on quick patterns. Carolina kept funchess and has Olsen but they got rid of Benjamin and added some fast underneath guys. Mccaffrey certainly helped Cam this year. They need more talent at the wide receiver position. I think you need to have a balance or speedy guys and underneath guys but every team needs to have that underneath route runner who has speed and can get open. Tom Brady collects them. Antonio Brown does this. Quick separation on underneath patterns kills defenses. Like I said, a balance is necessary in my opinion but the underneath guy is more just as important. Get a really good slot receiver and a young QB will have a much easier time.
GunnerBill Posted February 2, 2018 Posted February 2, 2018 13 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said: I just see a guy like him benefiting from a speedy underneath guy who can get away from corners and find the open spaces. Big guys have a tough time with that. I like having a tall receiver but I also think an underneath guy is necessary who is fast and a solid route runner who can get space from his defenders on quick patterns. Carolina kept funchess and has Olsen but they got rid of Benjamin and added some fast underneath guys. Mccaffrey certainly helped Cam this year. They need more talent at the wide receiver position. I think you need to have a balance or speedy guys and underneath guys but every team needs to have that underneath route runner who has speed and can get open. Tom Brady collects them. Antonio Brown does this. Quick separation on underneath patterns kills defenses. Like I said, a balance is necessary in my opinion but the underneath guy is more just as important. Get a really good slot receiver and a young QB will have a much easier time. Obviously ideally you need a balance. But my priority for Rudolph with tendency to get high when under pressure would be big guys and I think they have been essential to Cam's success in the NFL.
The Now Moment Posted February 2, 2018 Posted February 2, 2018 7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Obviously ideally you need a balance. But my priority for Rudolph with tendency to get high when under pressure would be big guys and I think they have been essential to Cam's success in the NFL. Fair enough. Whoever is QB next year can definitely use a healthy Benjamin that's for sure. Hoping we get a speedster though in the draft at some point that can get open. I think Zay will have a better year as well. If Buffalo were to add a WR in the draft, who are your preferences?
GunnerBill Posted February 2, 2018 Posted February 2, 2018 Just now, Buffalo30 said: Fair enough. Whoever is QB next year can definitely use a healthy Benjamin that's for sure. Hoping we get a speedster though in the draft at some point that can get open. I think Zay will have a better year as well. If Buffalo were to add a WR in the draft, who are your preferences? I really am not a huge fan of this WR class.... to be honest of this draft class beyond a few positions. I liked Courtland Sutton as a fit here when it looked like he might come out last year but that was before the Bills traded for KB. I still think he is probably my favourite WR in the draft but not necessarily sure I'd spend a 1st on him and you might want someone who is more of a polished route runner opposite Benjamin. I think Calvin Ridley is going to go a lot higher than I'd take him and Washington probably will too. I liked what I saw from the Colorado St kid at the Senior Bowl and he is one on my list to go back to. Last year's receiver class had some really good depth and a whole host of guys I'd have considered in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th. This one.... not so much. I actually think in Reilly and Dupre the Bills have two candidates on their roster already to make a run at the 53 come pre-season.
rodneykm Posted February 2, 2018 Posted February 2, 2018 I truly believe Sam Darnold will be talked about with the likes of Ryan Leaf. The guy just doesn't have it.
The Now Moment Posted February 2, 2018 Posted February 2, 2018 4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I really am not a huge fan of this WR class.... to be honest of this draft class beyond a few positions. I liked Courtland Sutton as a fit here when it looked like he might come out last year but that was before the Bills traded for KB. I still think he is probably my favourite WR in the draft but not necessarily sure I'd spend a 1st on him and you might want someone who is more of a polished route runner opposite Benjamin. I think Calvin Ridley is going to go a lot higher than I'd take him and Washington probably will too. I liked what I saw from the Colorado St kid at the Senior Bowl and he is one on my list to go back to. Last year's receiver class had some really good depth and a whole host of guys I'd have considered in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th. This one.... not so much. I actually think in Reilly and Dupre the Bills have two candidates on their roster already to make a run at the 53 come pre-season. If Ridley were there with one of our first round picks, I'd have a tough time saying no if we got our QB too. He's be a great weapon for whoever our new QB is. One of my favorite wide receivers in this class is DJ Moore. Is a 5'11" 215 and plays big. His quickness and cutting abilities both with and without the ball are impressive. I think he will go in the second round. He improved every year in college. Gallup and Allen Lazard have also caught my eye at points. There's a lot of potential guys that are tall in this class but none of them are sure things by any means. If we get a young QB, I'd have a tough time not getting him another weapon this year. Try to surround him with more talent to help him out. But with so many needs, this need might be pushed aside pushed aside in the draft and we may look to find a guy in free agency.
Jamie Muellers Ghost Posted February 2, 2018 Author Posted February 2, 2018 27 minutes ago, rodneykm said: I truly believe Sam Darnold will be talked about with the likes of Ryan Leaf. The guy just doesn't have it. Do you know the story of Chicken Little ?
Buffalo716 Posted February 2, 2018 Posted February 2, 2018 21 hours ago, Shaw66 said: How does an NFL coach find time during the season to scout college football QBs? I thought all the scouting in the Fall was done by the scouts, with the coaches getting involved after the season ends. I think these are the comments of fan. Like, "Mason Rudolph is great! I saw him though a long touchdown pass." Now, that's some real in depth scouting. NFL coaches do not have the time to scout college QBs during the season. you are exactly right
GunnerBill Posted February 2, 2018 Posted February 2, 2018 54 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said: But with so many needs, this need might be pushed aside pushed aside in the draft and we may look to find a guy in free agency. I would go the free agency route I think. Might take a later flier on a WR I would not be taking one with one of my top 4 picks in this draft with our needs and the relative abilities of the WR draft class.
SoTier Posted February 2, 2018 Posted February 2, 2018 On 2/1/2018 at 6:18 AM, eball said: Of course, it stands to reason a bunch of fat slobs on their couches know more about evaluating QBs than a guy who has been coaching for decades. If Arians was such a great judge of QBs coming out of college, why didn't he ever find one for his own team? Arians became the Cards' HC in 2013, and since that time, the Cards have drafted exactly 1 QB: Logan Thomas in the fourth round in 2014 despite the fact that the Cards could have taken Teddy Bridgewater, Derek Carr or Jimmy Garoppolo in 2014 and that Carson Palmer had been in the league for more than 10 years at that time, and has been more susceptible to serious injuries than many other QBs. Sometimes there's no good QBs available when a team needs one, but there were better candidates than Thomas available in 2014, and Cards passed on them. Maybe Arians didn't have a lot of input in whom the Cards drafted, but I wouldn't have a lot of faith in Arians' evaluation of collegiate QBs based on his being a HC. Not all good HCs are good talent evaluators, especially when judging players playing in systems different from the ones they're familiar with.
transplantbillsfan Posted February 3, 2018 Posted February 3, 2018 Draft any of the 6 guys slated as potential 1st round QBs except for Allen!!! Oh please don't draft Allen!!! No more EJ Manuel "ball of clay you can mold" type QBs!!!
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