Arians: Best QB Class In 15-20 Years

[klos63]

49 minutes ago, SaviorPeterman said:

I like Arians as a coach but he's clueless about this draft class.

 

Sources I trust pretty much believe it's a two man show between Darnold and Rosen, with the rest of the class being the same old story we've seen in recent yaers with a lot of overhyped boom or bust type of guys (i.e. Mayfield, Allen, etc) that will teams will reach for in the 1st round or might not be drafted until round 3 or later.

 

Don't get me wrong though, there are certainly some potential steals and sleepers like Nathan Peterman, especially a guy like Tanner Lee who many scouts and GM's are already enamored with given he has all the prototypical NFL QB traits these guys covet.

Clueless? Because he has a different take on it than you do?  You are getting pretty ridiculous as of late.

[ndirish1978]

10 hours ago, pi2000 said:

I think this class sucks.   A bunch of JP Losmans, Johnny Manziels, Tim Tebows, Brandon Weeden's and Ryan Mallett's.

 

Well then, I suppose I should tell the former offensive-minded HC who coached for decades that you disagree. He'll be devastated by your expert opinion.

[SaviorPeterman]

24 minutes ago, klos63 said:

Clueless? Because he has a different take on it than you do?  You are getting pretty ridiculous as of late.

 

It's reckless for a former NFL coach to make misleading statements like this and proves he's out of touch with reality.

[thebandit27]

2 minutes ago, SaviorPeterman said:

 

It's reckless for a former NFL coach to make misleading statements like this and proves he's out of touch with reality.

 

There's no way you're serious

[BigBuff423]

3 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

I appreciate that. I see a kid who got asked some tough questions and responded honestly. He may be a jerk, or it may be something the media is saying because they don't like his opinions. Everything that has come out of that actual locker room has been positive. I think he is an extremely intelligent guy and is standing up for those less fortunate than him. I loved this quote from Jim Mora, who was his coach. This was after Rosen made comments about college taking advantage of athletes etc.: 

 

"Well, I think it's important to know this about Josh Rosen: He's very, very well respected by his coaches and his teammates because we see on a daily basis his commitment, his work ethic, his attitude, his passion for football. We also know that he's an incredibly intelligent young man that does have opinions. Often times those opinions are conveyed to others because he is trying to bring attention to some that are maybe less fortunate or have less than he does. At times that maybe he feels are taken advantage of. The message to Josh is that it's OK to have opinions. As a 20-year-old, you're going to have opinions now that maybe you don't have when you're 22, 23, 30, 50, 60 that are maybe different than when you were 13, 14, 15, 16, 17. But when you express those opinions in a public forum - and he expressed those opinions way back in the spring. This is not a recent interview. But when you express opinions, you create perceptions. You create controversy. There are those who agree with you and those who won't agree with you. And you have to be willing to live with the consequences."

 

Now I would recommend reading this interview with Bleacher Report where he made some of those comments: 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2722587-josh-rosen-qa-ucla-qb-on-injuries-ncaa-and-post-nfl-goal-to-own-the-world 

 

Here is another interview where the interviewer brings up Trump for some reason: 

https://www.theplayerstribune.com/josh-rosen-conor-mcdermott-ucla/?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Sept 30 AM&utm_content=Sept 30 AM+CID_cf5de8385d01b4393dd30813efc2329e&utm_source=newsletter&utm_term=Everything Under the Sun

 

He was asked about Trump and said this: 

"Well, I think it’s no secret that I’m not a large fan of Donald Trump — from a policy standpoint and from a human-being standpoint. I think it’s cowardly to run a campaign based on demagoguery and bigotry, and to incite fear so you can rally support for personal gain. He’s feeding off of racial tension and a lack of religious understanding, and a lack of sympathy and empathy for people who are different from him. I think it’s sad that he’s not even trying to understand important issues and propose legitimate policies to make the country a better place. It seems like he just wants to be president … so he can be president. There’s so much I don’t like. I don’t like his policy positions, and I really don’t like him making racially charged statements to people who don’t know better or understand what it’s like to come from poverty or different backgrounds."

 

BTW, the other guy in that interview is Conor McDermott, who is on our team and loves Rosen. We have Rosen's teammate at left tackle for two years in our building, so if we want to know what teammates think of Rosen, we can just ask Conor. (I also think he is in the mix at RT this year)

 

I see Rosen as a really intelligent guy who is a little misunderstood (because the general public is really dumb). I think the bad teammate stuff and doesn't love football stuff is nonsense. He's the guy IMO. 

 

And if the Bills hold that kind of faith in him, they should do everything necessary to go get him. And I appreciate the information and links instead of just pounding the table, and I'll say my opinion has softened regarding Rosen, but if the Bills are frugal in FA, I don't see how you can do both. They still have to field an entire team and if they need to give up the farm to go get Rosen, I'm not sure where those players are coming from. 

 

Now, on the other hand, as I mentioned somewhere this morning in one of these threads, Belichick has done a hell of a job finding UDFAs and using them, and if you have guy like Tom Brady (or maybe Rosen for this discussion), you can afford to take risks on UDFAs in the belief that the elite QB will elevate everyone else around them.

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

10 minutes ago, SaviorPeterman said:

 

It's reckless for a former NFL coach to make misleading statements like this and proves he's out of touch with reality.

Reckless to whom?

Out of touch with reality? in your expert opinion.

[klos63]

10 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

There's no way you're serious

I think he is.

[BigBuff423]

3 hours ago, JohnC said:

Where I disagree with the thrust of your response is that I don't necessarily believe that you have to exhaust your draft assets to get one of  the top two prospects when there are maybe three or four high quality prospects. I would rather make a lesser move up the draft board to draft Mayfield at a lower cost than use more of my draft picks to get either Rosen or Darnold. I'll extend that logic even farther. If you believed that both Rudolph or Jackson were high end prospects that needed more development time then I would either stand pat and wait or more preferably take a lesser risk of losing one of them with a lower cost move up deal. 

 

For me the priority is to get a high quality qb prospect in the pipeline this year, a year in which there are a group of very good prospects. Last year the Bills traded out of their spot thus bypassing either Mahomes or Watkins. The waiting game for another season has got to stop. There is no perfect option. Take the best option you can get when the qb pool is deeper than usual. If not now then when? Next year or the year after? You either get it done or you don't. The cycle of futility has to end. 

 

But by that reasoning, it would make more sense to go all the way up to #1 or #2 and get the guy you believe is the future who moves the needle of the franchise. Because otherwise, trading up and giving up Draft capital but not really getting the guy you want is how you continue make mistakes. Because if you trade up in the 1st to get "a guy" but not "the guy", you're still going to need to give him 3 full seasons to determine where he is in his development. So, invest or stay put, JMO

[klos63]

14 minutes ago, SaviorPeterman said:

 

It's reckless for a former NFL coach to make misleading statements like this and proves he's out of touch with reality.

you've really gone off the deep end.

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, klos63 said:

you've really gone off the deep end.

 

I can't believe anyone takes him at all seriously.

[klos63]

14 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

There's no way you're serious

He did point out potential steals like Peterman, so we got that going for us.

[SouthNYfan]

5 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Manziel being selected anywhere in the 1st round was a joke.

 

Manziel being selected anywhere was a joke.

 

(Fixed it. Just playing around btw. I agree with you 100%)

[klos63]

Just now, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

I can't believe anyone takes him at all seriously.

I don't, he was always entertaining in a 'strange kid next door' kind of way, but he's getting pretty nuts lately.

[SouthNYfan]

19 minutes ago, SaviorPeterman said:

 

It's reckless for a former NFL coach to make misleading statements like this and proves he's out of touch with reality.

 

You telling someone they are reckless and out of touch with reality??

 

Pot, meet kettle, he's black too.

1 hour ago, SaviorPeterman said:

I like Arians as a coach but he's clueless about this draft class.

 

Sources I trust pretty much believe it's a two man show between Darnold and Rosen, with the rest of the class being the same old story we've seen in recent yaers with a lot of overhyped boom or bust type of guys (i.e. Mayfield, Allen, etc) that will teams will reach for in the 1st round or might not be drafted until round 3 or later.

 

Don't get me wrong though, there are certainly some potential steals and sleepers like Nathan Peterman, especially a guy like Tanner Lee who many scouts and GM's are already enamored with given he has all the prototypical NFL QB traits these guys covet.

 

 

The voices in your head don't count.

2 minutes ago, klos63 said:

I don't, he was always entertaining in a 'strange kid next door' kind of way, but he's getting pretty nuts lately.

 

Now he's become the crazy 30 something next door living in Mom's basement making pipebombs and dolls from lose strands of hair he collects from the neighbor's trash.

 

[grb]

1 hour ago, SaviorPeterman said:

 

........and proves he's out of touch with reality.

 

Pot meet kettle.

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, BigBuff423 said:

 

But by that reasoning, it would make more sense to go all the way up to #1 or #2 and get the guy you believe is the future who moves the needle of the franchise. Because otherwise, trading up and giving up Draft capital but not really getting the guy you want is how you continue make mistakes. Because if you trade up in the 1st to get "a guy" but not "the guy", you're still going to need to give him 3 full seasons to determine where he is in his development. So, invest or stay put, JMO

Again, I respectfully disagree with you. If Mayfield is considered the third ranked qb on the Bills board but is still ranked as a high end prospect I would prefer bypassing the more costly prospects and get a qb whom I still believe would be a good qb in this league. There are no guarantees that the two higher ranked qbs in this draft are going to be better than the third ranked qb. So do a value analysis and make a decision. 

 

With respect to the highlighted segment dealing with development time I have no problem with investing in the time to prepare the prospect. The problem with your line of thinking is that most prospects take time except for the special players. If it takes time it takes time. Let it marinate and when ready play the player. That's how it usually works. The same developmental process occurs for all positions. Some players are ready sooner than others. But there is still a learning curve for most players. It's simply part of the process as it is for most fields of endeavor. 

[Like A Mofo]

12 hours ago, pi2000 said:

I think this class sucks.   A bunch of JP Losmans, Johnny Manziels, Tim Tebows, Brandon Weeden's and Ryan Mallett's.

 

 

You must be quite the hit at parties

[Batman1876]

This is the best class since 2004 (quality) or 1999(quantity) so it’s actually 14-19 years not 15-20 clearly Arians has lost it and his family should fear for his well being. 

[OrtonHearsaWho]

5 hours ago, JohnC said:

My fear of a player like Josh Allen is that he fits in with the Blake Bortles syndrome. If you break down the parts he has them in spades, at least on the physical side. But when you watch him play there is a disconnect between the physical talents and production. 

 

When evaluating a specimen such as Allen the best approach is to forget about the tape measure and watch the tape. Trust your eyes! Then come to an evaluation. He's a player I am very much wary of. 

 

Couldn't agree more except with the Bortles comparison.  I'm not saying that I like Bortles very much but he put up fantastic college numbers, even against power conference teams.

 

Of all of the QBs, he's the one that I hope the Bills stay away from.  He's like the Mike Mamula of QBs to me.  I read that he threw 66mph at the Senior Bowl.  Okay cool...he also misses receivers as badly as anyone I have seen.  The Ringer had a good write up about him that covers his deficiencies very thoroughly.  I could be wrong and if the Bills take him then I obviously hope I'm wrong.

[BigBuff423]

43 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Again, I respectfully disagree with you. If Mayfield is considered the third ranked qb on the Bills board but is still ranked as a high end prospect I would prefer bypassing the more costly prospects and get a qb whom I still believe would be a good qb in this league. There are no guarantees that the two higher ranked qbs in this draft are going to be better than the third ranked qb. So do a value analysis and make a decision. 

 

With respect to the highlighted segment dealing with development time I have no problem with investing in the time to prepare the prospect. The problem with your line of thinking is that most prospects take time except for the special players. If it takes time it takes time. Let it marinate and when ready play the player. That's how it usually works. The same developmental process occurs for all positions. Some players are ready sooner than others. But there is still a learning curve for most players. It's simply part of the process as it is for most fields of endeavor. 

 

The problem is that, if you're taking a QB with a lower rating simply to save a few Draft slots, it will take at least 3 years (usually) to determine whether or not the QB has "it"....as you said there are rare special occasions when you know immediately and the results bare out over time. But normally, if a team drafts a QB in the 1st round, no matter how abysmal the first year, he gets a second, and if ANY improvement even in the smallest amount is seen, they usually get a 3rd...and rightfully so....but the point is if you're trading up for a QB, but you're NOT taking THE QB you think will be the premiere player, then you're wasting a pick and approximately 3 years of development to find out. That's the point...either go all in, or just go home.